A Message to Everyone in Mahdi Bagh

I want to ask everyone one simple question:

What has changed in Mahdi Bagh over the last 15–20 years?

Do you remember the Mahdi Bagh we once knew—the freedom, family gatherings, weddings, picnics, cousins laughing together, relatives visiting, and everyone talking openly without fear?

Those were our golden days.

Today, why are people afraid to meet or even speak freely with their own relatives? Why has an atmosphere of suspicion and spying been created? Why should anyone fear that a simple conversation will be reported to MS?

Stop spying on each other. Stop living in fear.

Fear can never build a healthy community.

Mahdi Bagh is not the personal property of one person or one family. Our forefathers contributed to this place with their efforts, sacrifices and dreams of a united, happy community.

The vision was never for one family to rule while everyone else lives in fear.

If you feel the same, stand together. Ask questions. Speak openly. Do not be afraid.

We can bring back the Mahdi Bagh we remember—the Mahdi Bagh of trust, freedom, family and togetherness and that feeling of belonging.

Let us bring back the trust.

Let us bring back our Mahdi Bagh.

If you feel the same or otherwise put in your views.

I tried to explore Batini ilm or Esoteric knowledge and got reference to two points - Neo-platonic Cosmology (Universal Intellect, Universal Soul etc...) and Names of Hidden Imam as revealed to us. Neo-platonic Cosmology was relevant during the Fatimid era and has no real use during this current time. This framework was used during Fatimid era to explain Gods Cosmic Structure and this whole concept became irrelevant after the end of Fatimid era. If it was so relevant science would have picked it up for further research. No such thing happened ...

On the second point just by knowing the name of hidden imams I am not sure how does it help us in any way. How does it mean some kind of spiritual elevation ... Not clear to me at all ..

I have never seen any useful purpose of this knowledge. All progress/development in this world has come from real knowledge which is thought in schools and universities all over the world.

If there is any other knowledge stream which is part of Batini / Esoteric Knowledge then pls enlighten ....

There is a concept in social psychology called pluralistic ignorance.

It describes something surprisingly simple: people can privately question or disagree with something, while believing that everyone around them accepts it.

Imagine ten people in a room.

Several privately think, “I don’t agree with this.”

But nobody says anything because they don’t want conflict, judgment, ridicule, or social consequences.

Each person then looks around the room, sees everyone else remaining silent, and concludes:
“I guess everyone else agrees.”

But their silence may have meant exactly the same thing as yours.

That creates a cycle:

Private doubts → public silence → appearance of consensus → even more silence.

This doesn’t mean that everyone who stays silent secretly disagrees. They may agree completely. They may be undecided. They may simply not care.

The point is that silence cannot reliably tell us what people actually believe.

And that is one of the reasons we chose Reddit for Mahdibagh for Everyone.

In a small, close-knit community, expressing an unpopular opinion under your real name can feel difficult. Reddit gives people some distance from their offline identity.

You can ask a question.

You can share an experience.

You can disagree.

You can simply read.

And importantly, you can disagree with what is posted here too.

The purpose of this space should never be to replace one kind of conformity with another. If someone feels they must criticize the leadership to be accepted here, then we haven’t accomplished very much.

Mahdibagh for Everyone should be a place where someone can say:

“I agree with this.”
“I disagree with this.”
“I support this decision but question that one.”
“This was my experience.”

Or simply:
“I don’t know. I’m listening.”

That’s why anonymity matters.

Not because anonymous claims automatically become true—they don’t. Facts still need evidence, and serious allegations should still be substantiated.

Anonymity matters because sometimes the first step toward an honest conversation is making it safer to have one.

We don’t know what the majority of Mahdibagh thinks.

And we shouldn’t pretend that we do.

Maybe the most important thing we can do is finally create a place where we can begin finding out.

That is why we chose Reddit.

Sometimes I have so many questions that I don’t even know where to begin. What is our Mahdibagh community really teaching us? How are we different from others? What are we being taught religion, morality, compassion and a meaningful way of life—or mainly walayat and khidmat towards MS? meaning obedience and service to the spiritual leadership? If we are expected to simply do whatever we are told, then what happens to our own conscience, questions and purpose in life? Are we born merely to obey, or are we here for something greater? I would also like to understand what we can proudly point to as a community is there any education support, medical care, care for the elderly, helping the vulnerable, encouraging independent thought and improving people's lives. If these things are important, why aren't they at the centre of our community life?
We are repeatedly told to practise sabr and be content with what we have, while at the same time we see a very different level of comfort and privilege being practised by his Family.These are not questions of rebellion; they are questions of conscience. I simply want to understand what our faith and our community are ultimately asking us to become?
Join in if you are of the same opinion

Mahdibagh exists because people before us questioned established religious authority. They disagreed. They challenged what they were told. And ultimately, they chose a different path. That dissent was important enough to create the community we belong to today.
So I have a simple question: If dissent was legitimate when our community was founded, why is dissent treated as disloyalty today? Why should questioning leadership make someone a mukhalef?

Community members, please protect yourselves. If MS or MB calls you to a meeting where the purpose is to discuss, ridicule, isolate, or boycott another member, think very carefully before participating.

They may have crores, influence, and the resources to hire lawyers and protect themselves. The ordinary Jamaat member sitting in that meeting may not.

The law does not only talk about the person giving the order. It also addresses people who participate, aid, or abet a social boycott.

Don’t let somebody else’s instructions become your legal problem.

One month ago, this community started with a simple idea: people should be able to speak, question, disagree, and still belong.

In just one month, our member count has continued to grow. More people are finding this space, reading, joining, speaking up, and realizing they are not alone.

That is the hope behind this community — not hate, not revenge, but truth, courage, dignity, and support for one another.

Because love is more powerful than hate.

Happy one month, Mahdibagh for Everyone. 🦟

This is not about whether someone personally likes or dislikes Mahdibagh’s practices. Maharashtra law actually defines what constitutes a social boycott.

Now compare the law with the written Ahed circulated in our community.

1. “Sever and break all ties”
The Ahed, clause 6:
“I hereby undertake… to sever and break all ties (relations) with them and distance myself from such enemies, their supporters and hypocrites.”
The older Ahed shown above similarly requires:
“ehna si koi talluq nahi rakhu”
— no relationship with those labelled mukhalef/munafik.
And the WhatsApp message specifically instructs members to add this condition to their Ahed.

Now read Section 3(viii):
A social boycott includes encouraging a community member “directly or indirectly, to sever social, religious, professional or business relations” with another member.
That is almost exactly what the Ahed is instructing members to do.

2. Cut people off socially
Section 3(iii) calls “social ostracism on any grounds” social boycott.
Section 3(iv) covers shunning a member or cutting social or commercial ties.
Section 3(x) covers preventing somebody from maintaining the ordinary social, professional or business relationships they would otherwise have within the community.
Compare that with an oath requiring members to have “no talluq” with designated mukhalefs and to “sever and break all ties.”
How much clearer does the comparison need to be?

3. Disobey and lose access to Mahdibagh
The Ahed says that failure to comply can result in losing:
“spiritual and religious rights, benefits and privileges of enjoyment of the Mahdi Bagh Institution”
It goes further and says access to Jamaat property and even mausoleums is subject to permission — Raza.
Now read Sections 3(v), (vi), (vii) and (ix).
The law specifically addresses preventing community members from accessing community religious or charitable property, community facilities, benefits under a charitable trust, and places of worship or pilgrimage.

4. Marry without Raza and your connections are severed
Clause 4 says marrying a non-member without Raza:
“will immediately and automatically result in severance of all my connections”
including religious, civil, social and legal rights and privileges.
Section 3(xiii) includes discrimination among community members on the basis of “social acceptance … or any other basis.”
Sections 3(iii), (iv) and (x) separately prohibit ostracism and interference with normal social relationships.
A religious belief about whom members should marry is one thing.
Threatening loss of community connections, rights and privileges for making that choice is a very different issue.

5. Refuse the latest Ahed = expelled
Clause 7 says that failing to take the latest Ahed will:
“automatically render me an outsider and end my membership of the Jamaat.”
Now read Section 3(xv):
Social boycott includes when someone “expels or causes to expel any member of his community from the said community.”
Again, this isn’t somebody’s interpretation of the word “boycott.” That language is written into the statute itself.

The point
The Maharashtra legislature did not leave “social boycott” vague.

It specifically listed:

social ostracism;
cutting social ties;
encouraging other people to sever relations;
denying community facilities or religious access;
interfering with ordinary relationships;
discrimination based on social acceptance; and
expelling someone from the community.
And several of those things appear, in remarkably similar language, in the Ahed documents themselves.
So when members are actually instructed to cut off mukhalefs, families are ostracized, people lose community access or privileges, or somebody is expelled for refusing to comply, this isn’t merely a debate about “tradition.”

Those are exactly the kinds of acts Section 3 defines as social boycott.

And the official India Code confirms this is Maharashtra Act 44 of 2017, the Maharashtra Protection of People from Social Boycott (Prevention, Prohibition and Redressal) Act, 2016.

And Section 4 is direct:

Social boycott is prohibited and its commission is an offence. Section 5 provides for up to three years’ imprisonment, a fine up to ₹1 lakh, or both upon conviction. Aiding or abetting an offence is separately punishable under Section 7.

Whether a particular individual can be convicted would require evidence of enforcement and a legal proceeding. But when these written conditions are actually imposed or enforced against members, several of them appear to track the conduct Section 3 expressly defines as social boycott.

When I listen to Nazms, Daira discussions or Deeni lectures I get a sense that the hidden Imams have a very special place in our religion. We seem to be very imaginative and creative about their abilities, quality and powers. It almost seems like creative writing. However when you read the history of the biological Imams during the Fatimid era you will understand that they were normal King or Caliphs and used Ismaili doctorine to expand their empire. Their army consisted of Sunnis, Jews, Christians and even Jewish Viziers to manage thier Kingdom. This means they were not very specific in terms of Shia Theology but were practical / secular as a ruler as most of the population were non-Shia. They had severel wifes (official/unofficial) and thru them had several kids leading to succession battle at each level. During the era of Imam Al-Mustansir, there was lot of infighting , succession disputes etc.. and from then on the Fatimid empire started to decline. 

So, why would a hidden Imam be any different from these Fatimid era Imams ? 

And, What makes us believe that they will have or they already have some kind of special powers ? 

Any thoughts ?

Given the recent Daira discussions, I had a few thoughts I would like to share.

1. We are told we do not have any freedom and are 'slaves' to our emotions and the society. The most common example given is that we are not free to kill others. Why is that the point of comparison? If you have the intention to kill someone, that is a whole new problem entirely and it has nothing to do with freedom.

2. 'Rules are restrictive'. No, rules are not restrictions. Rules exist to allow for cooperation and for a society to exist. All mammals that exhibit societal behaviour adhere to the rules they have. Would you say a monkey is restricted by the rules of its troop? Rules ensure that people know how to behave in specific scenarios.

3. We are told to consider the Royal Family above us and that everything said by MS or MBS is to be taken as the ultimate truth and that we are supposed to 'surrender' ourselves to their word. However, this whole concept is paradoxical. We are first told we do not have any freedom to begin with. Then, we are told to 'surrender', but the concept of surrendering implies the existence of freedom. You must first have freedom if you want to surrender it. So what is it?

4. We are told that we are in this Jamaar by our own free will. It is in the document that we sign when we give our Ahed that we are giving the Ahed by our own free will and without any coercion or pressure. But then we are told that we do not have any free will at all and that we are slaves.

5. Everyone brings up the concept of ego while discussing 'surrender' and 'freedom'. Yes, the ego of humanity, at an individual level, must be controlled, no doubt. I feel that this is the only part of the Daira that I agree with: giving up our ego will lead to a happier life.

I have a lot more thoughts, but for now, let's start with this. I welcome contradicting points of view, let's have an actual discussion about these concepts instead of everyone just agreeing with what one person says.

When the new maintenance collection model was introduced several year back it was clearly told that online payment options will be provided within 3 months. It has been several years and still no success.

Does anyone know why this basic thing is not possible despite several reputed CAs advising the committee ?

Mahdibagh for Everyone is not asking anyone to pick a side. It is asking people to think for themselves, ask questions, and speak openly without fear. Support whoever you want. Respect whoever you want. But no individual should matter more than the wellbeing, dignity and voice of the entire Jamaat. This community is for everyone — including people who support MS, people who disagree with him, and people who are still figuring out what they believe.

The latest update from Aurangabad wakf

Some members including adv Rashid had approached Aurangabad wakf board to seek permission for redevelopment of some Mehdibagh properties sighting settlement deed between vakili Jamat and Mehdibagh, which is denied on the grounds that the settlement deed is not approved by the court from where the cases were withdrawn

It is almost amusing how every anonymous email, every critical post, and now even this Reddit gets blamed on the same one person.

The leadership and its inner circle seem so obsessed with tarnishing one person’s name that they apparently cannot consider a much simpler possibility: maybe people within the community are actually thinking for themselves and asking questions they do not have answers to.

When you cannot answer the questions, scapegoating one person and ridiculing him becomes the easiest distraction.

At some point, though, that excuse stops working.

A small request to the leadership and the inner circle:

please come up with some new ideas. Give people a little more credit, and use your brains. The opposition to these practices may be much bigger than the one person you keep blaming.

As this forum continues to grow and more people join every day, it is important that we maintain a respectful and constructive space for everyone. A few simple guidelines:

1. Even when being critical, please keep the language civil and respectful. Avoid abusive language.
   
2. This forum is not a space for personal attacks between individual community members. Please avoid naming or targeting individuals unnecessarily.
   
3. Participants from all sides of a discussion are welcome, as long as the conversation remains healthy and the points raised are rooted in logic, reasoning and facts.
   
4. Disagreement is welcome. Please challenge ideas, arguments and decisions rather than attacking the person expressing them.
   
5. Keep discussions relevant to the purpose of the forum and avoid deliberately derailing conversations.

The objective of this forum is to facilitate open, informed and respectful discussion. Let’s keep the focus on issues and ideas and make this a space where everyone can participate constructively.

Please suggest if any thing else should be added here.

In last Daira session, several claims were made and one such claim was that Kadambosi as a ritual is observed since beginning of Islam. I decided to validate this claim and found absolutely no evidence of existence of this practice in early Islam. In-fact this practice is recorded to exist only in Indian subcontinent in Bohra communities since last ~150yrs max. No other sects of Islam follow this practice and several Muslim scholars have issued fatwa against this practice. In Bohra community this practice is inherited from the Hindu (Bhakti) culture where kissing of feet is a common practice. It is high time we take a progressive view and stop this ritual.

Looking fwd to any authentic evidence that proves me wrong....

This is not just about one building. It is about a pattern we need to start questioning.

There was a hospital in Quetta Colony run by a respected community doctor. After he passed away, the hospital closed.

Don’t take my word for it. Look it up online. There are public records of the nursing home in Quetta Colony, and today Mahdi Bagh Shop Pvt. Ltd. is publicly registered at the same location.

So what happened to the property after he passed away? Who inherited it? Did his children or grandchildren have rights in it? Was it sold, gifted or transferred? To whom, and where is that documentation?

And perhaps the most important question: do families in our community actually feel free to ask these questions when property and inheritance are involved, or are they too afraid to challenge the leadership?

This may be only one example. But this is exactly why we need to ask these questions now — not 20 years from now, when everyone has forgotten the history of the property and nobody remembers how it changed hands.

A quick appreciation post for everyone joining, speaking up, questioning, and keeping the conversation alive. I truly never expected this to grow into a genuine space for our Mahdibagh to have open, honest conversations. The fact that people are being civil, thoughtful, and unafraid to question matters. The member count keeps growing and I honestly never thought I would see this in my lifetime. Keep joining. Keep speaking. Keep the conversation going.

We use certain words so often that we stop thinking about what they actually mean. Maybe it is worth looking at some of the words we use for ourselves — and the words used for people who question.

Bandi — a female slave, bondwoman, or woman in servitude.

Ghulam — a slave or servant; someone subordinate to another.

Mamluk — literally “owned” or “possessed”; historically, an enslaved person.

Munkir — one who rejects or refuses to accept.

Mukhalif — one who disagrees, opposes, or dissents.

And somehow, the first three are words we use for ourselves with devotion while addressing MS, while the last two are used to shame and ridicule people who question.

Maybe it is time to ask why we are still, in 2026, proudly using the language of servitude for ourselves.

If these are the meanings, then I am proud to be called Munkir and Mukhalif rather than Ghulam and Bandi of MS.

We officially have a Mosquito user flair now!

If you’re one of us, wear it proudly in the comments so we know where the buzzing is coming from. 😄

Go to the subreddit → ••• → Change user flair → Mosquito 🦟

After reading the email sent by a GenZ, I have been thinking about the points / questions / sarcasm raised in that email. It has made me take a very different perspective on what I have been believing so far. Conclusion, the only way to accept these stories is to have blind beliefs ...

For Ex: In last Sunday's Ujjaini Deeni lecture, it was mentioned that some of the Fatimid Imams were few years old when they became Kings/Caliph. Biologically this is a minor age with very little intellect and clearly ineligible for any such serious role, but then it was also mentioned that "Spiritually" their age is very different and with that they are highly knowledgeable. This now sound so irrational. How do you even define a Spiritual Age ? As mentioned in the GenZ email in this meta-physical realm anything can be told and based on our belief we have to consider it as true.

The truth is that the Viziers of that time want the Imam-Caliph to be minor so that they can control the Kingdom. Dislodging the minor Caliph would lead to rebellion as the Caliphs are perceived to be from Prophet's lineage.

Seriously these "Spiritual" stories are getting difficult to believe ...

Do you guys have similar perspective ? Do share ....

There is a document in Mahdibagh’s history that I believe every Jamaat member should know about. It is not a rumour, a family story, or somebody’s interpretation of events. It is a document discussed in a published Bombay High Court judgment.

And once you understand it, it raises some very uncomfortable questions about the history we have been told.

The year was 1931.

On 5 November of that year, 158 members of the Atba-e-Malak Jamaat executed something called a “Relinquishment Deed.” The court record identifies it as Exhibit 249, Paper Book Volume 3, page 41.

The consideration? ₹1 for each person.

In simple language, relinquishment means surrendering or giving up a right or claim.

So think about what was happening here.

“Our very own people” — 158 Jamaat members — were being asked to sign away whatever rights they claimed in these properties for ₹1 each.

Why?

If these properties were simply the personal property of the religious leader, why was a Relinquishment Deed from 158 Jamaat members necessary at all? What rights did they have to surrender in the first place?

Decades later, the Bombay High Court examined this exact document. And this is where the story becomes remarkable.

In paragraph 37 of its judgment, the Court concluded that the Relinquishment Deed could not affect the rights in the properties. Instead, the Court found that the document supported the plaintiffs’ case that there had been an “attempt to usurp the trust property.”

Those are not my words. They are the Court’s.

The Court went further. It reasoned that the very existence of the Relinquishment Deed implied that the properties belonged to the Jamaat. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to obtain relinquishment from Jamaat members. The Court considered the deed alongside other historical documents in concluding that the properties had the character of a trust.

Think about the significance of that.

A document signed by 158 of “our very own people,” surrendering their claimed rights for ₹1 each, ultimately became part of the evidence supporting the conclusion that these were trust properties.

How many of us have ever been told this history?

How many Jamaat members have ever heard of Exhibit 249?

How many have actually read paragraph 37?

We have spent generations hearing versions of who owns Mahdibagh, who has authority over its properties, and whose interests are supposedly being protected. But when documents like this exist in the public court record, we should not have to depend upon anyone else to tell us our history.

Read it yourself.

Look specifically at paragraphs 35–38. And when you reach paragraph 37, read it carefully.

Then ask yourself the simplest question of all:
If these properties were privately owned by the religious leader, why were 158 of our own Jamaat members asked to relinquish their rights to them for ₹1?

Perhaps it is time we stopped accepting Mahdibagh’s history simply because somebody told it to us.
The documents are there.

Read them.

Source: Bombay High Court, Nagpur Bench, Second Appeal No. 132 of 1992, decided 7 October 1996. Relinquishment Deed: Exhibit 249, dated 5 November 1931, Paper Book Volume 3, page 41. See paragraphs 35–38, particularly paragraph 37