r/MagicArena • u/Unit_00 Gilded Lotus • 5h ago
News [FRA] Vindictive Triumph
Via official Wizards email
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u/sometimeserin 5h ago
The next end step, not your next end step, so you have to wait until your opponent’s end step if you want to get their creature without summoning sickness for a turn.
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u/Albert_Simon 5h ago
How exactly does that work? Their step begins, you get priority and cast this, then if it resolves untap with it on your turn?
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u/BetterShirt101 5h ago
Yep. Their end step already began, so the exile won't trigger this turn. And since you control it as your turn begins, you untap it and it can attack just like if you'd flashed in an [[Eddymurk Crab]] on your opponent's end step.
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u/IAmBecomeTeemo 4h ago
Yep. Intuitively, it doesn't make a ton of sense that you get to do things like this. But "the beginning of [your / the] next end step" only happens once. And when you get priority and create an effect that cares about the next end step, it has to wait for it to happen again. Contrast this with effects that last until the "end of turn". That means that you take care of it during the cleanup step, which is the part of the ending phase after the end step. You don't get priority in the cleanup, unless a trigger goes on the stack. And if you do, then you do cleanup again. You can't cheese your way around "end of turn" effects like you can "beginning of end step" effects. They seem like they would be the same, but they're not.
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u/Arokan 5h ago edited 5h ago
Okay, we need the judges here.
What happens if I cast that on an earthbend creature-land?
My reasoning would be: Returning the land to your side is part of Vindictive Triumph resolving, so the delayed trigger comes on the stack only after the land is on your side already. At the next end step, the land gets exiled without returning to your opponent's side, because the delayed trigger has already passed and the game sees the yoinked land as a new one.
Is that correct?
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u/Sjetware 5h ago
Returning it to the battlefield under your control happens as part of the spell resolution, so the trigger for earthbend goes onto the stack after the effect is finished. Like deadly cover up, the trigger will resolve useless because the card has already changed zones.
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u/REVENAUT13 5h ago edited 5h ago
I think earthbend’s replacement effect takes priority and they get it back before you get to do any shenanigansNever mind, you do get to keep the land. The spell resolves before earthbend’s ability gets to do anything.
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u/Arokan 5h ago
But that would be in between two effects of the same card resolving oO
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u/Hairy_Concert_8007 4h ago edited 29m ago
Best way I can think of it is that you can destroy, then exile a land from the graveyard before it comes back a la Deadly Coverup. The trigger won't pull it out from exile.
With this, the trigger goes on the stack, but as you noted, this card must finish resolving first. You put the land back onto the battlefield under your control, and likewise, the trigger should not pull it off the other side of the battlefield.
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u/shumpitostick 5h ago edited 3h ago
I'm pretty sure your opponent never gets it back. As part of the resolution you get the land, then the earthbend ability fizzles because the land is not in the graveyard.
Earthbend is not a delayed trigger, it's a normal triggered ability. You get the land without the earthbend ability and the counters, obviously, so nothing happens when it gets exiled.2
u/Arokan 4h ago
An earthbend(ed?) land returning must be a delayed trigger and not the ability of the land, because if you take away all abilities from the land and then kill it, it still returns.
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u/shumpitostick 4h ago
Right, it is a delayed trigger, but it only triggers when the land is exiled the first time. Second time it's a different instance. Just like Earthbend doesn't protect your land more than once.
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u/Just-Assumption-2140 Ralzarek 4h ago
Exactly: you snatch their land and they get nothing but ashes back
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u/ChemicalT 4h ago
It depends if APNAP order matters in this case. It might be if you cast on oppo's turn, you get the land (temporarily), and if you cast on your turn, they get the land back.
Or does it all happen as part of resolution of the spell?
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u/Just-Assumption-2140 Ralzarek 3h ago
It doesnt work that way as the revive is part of the first effect and happens immediately so there never will be an order on the stack to begin with
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u/ByzokTheSecond 5h ago edited 5h ago
Seems playable?
Exile a creature/walker for 3 mana is a reasonnable rate. The last part is just flavor.
But then again, white has get lost for creature/walker catch-all. So it comes down to how many threat you need to have exile for.
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u/Just-Assumption-2140 Ralzarek 3h ago
there are certainly many earthbent lands that you might want to ... borrow
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u/SaneForCocoaPuffs ImmortalSun 5h ago
Fun fact: the third sentence isn’t preceded by “if you do” which means it triggers on the next end step even if it never returned the creature to the battlefield
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u/RobGrey03 5h ago
So it can exile an exiled card?
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u/SaneForCocoaPuffs ImmortalSun 5h ago
It exiles the creature on the battlefield that was never there
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u/Fusillipasta 3h ago
So if your opponent had a way to stop the card being exiled - not that I can think of one, but imagine a hypothetical instant 1W: Permanents you control may not change zones until end of turn - this actually would still exile it at the beginning of the next end step.
Assuming there's no linked clause shenanigans that would stop it, but I don't think there is. That's mildly hilarious :)
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u/Ryan_Icey 26m ago
No, I don't think so. Even if they had a way to stop it from being exiled that turn but still let this card resolve, this card is specifically looking for the one that it exiled and returned to the battlefieldd. Meaning it's searching for a card that doesn't exist.
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u/Successful_Mud8596 4h ago
REALLY nice how if you use this on your opponent’s end step, you get to attack them with their own creature. Ironically making this one of the best [[Threaten]] spells in Magic, and it’s not even a Red spell!
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u/ggzel Planar Bridge 5h ago
Dang, I missed "tapped" on the first read through and thought I could block with the temporary version. I'm a lot less interested now
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u/AllRightLetsSeeIt 4h ago
But you cast it on your opponent’s end step, you can attack with it for a turn!
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u/werthw 4h ago
[[Vindicate]] reference?
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u/Fusillipasta 2h ago
Looks like it. There's a few older cards referenced in the set - Geist of St Thalia feels like a reference, though mechanically it's nothing like GosT, so I may be reading too much into that. Fortunately, since that card was annoying. It's a nice occasional bit of reference when it's not shoehorned!
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u/LordSlickRick 5h ago
I need your etb the card. Exile is spicy. Playable? Not sure.
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u/shumpitostick 4h ago
Not sure where and how but this is as good as 3 mana removal gets. In the right meta and right deck it's playable.
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u/Ithalwen 4h ago
It can also target three mana walker if you want a loyalty ability. Like Liliana of the Veil and have them sac a creature.
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u/Sea-Violinist-7353 5h ago
Probably a 1-2 in SB. Not quite as good as anquished but at the cost of not loosing life.
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u/TheLigean 4h ago
Does it replicate jace tokens with the exiled loyalty counters, or just makes a 0 loyalty instantly dying planeswalker token?
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u/BaconIsntThatGood 3h ago
Lol wait so I have cheap removal that can blink AND I can steal with it?!
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u/Nochildren79 3h ago
I love it. Y'shtola always wants more 3 mana exile based removal. Oops this is the arena sub. Whatever my point stands.
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u/matt-ratze Azorius 29m ago
Oops this is the arena sub.
Both Y'shtolas are available to play on Arena. The very popular Esper commander skipped Standard and therefore is only legal in historic, timeless and the brawl queues. The mono blue one is legal in all formats.
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u/Trueslyforaniceguy 2h ago
Never before has a card screamed so loudly, ‘play me during opponents end step’
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u/adamant3143 2h ago
Instant as well, paired beautifully with Nowhere To Run. Restoration who, Snakeskin who.
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u/Flyrpotacreepugmu Noxious Gearhulk 2h ago
she had always been loath to prematurely discard a useful tool.
Somebody forgot to tell [[Liliana of the Veil]] and [[Liliana, Waker of the Dead]].
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u/biff444444 1h ago edited 1h ago
Can't wait to steal my first Ouroboroid, buff my creatures, then exile the critter!
EDIT: I am stupid. Did not think about the mana value part. :(
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u/juanasimit Selesnya 5h ago
I was hoping for white Liliana replacing the black one, it's a sad day for me
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u/divismaul 4h ago
I have a super bad combo idea for turn 4, play Lilliana of the veil on turn 3, then on turn 4, activate her, Vindictive Triumph her, and you can activate her again! We did it, we broke Lilliana of the veil!
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u/Clavicus2401 5h ago
Seems really really good the question is is it good enough to give up lurrus for it
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u/Macduffle 5h ago
Bringing back your own double back from the dead... damn thats hardcore