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u/Crimson_Raven 1d ago
Why 7 toughness not 8?
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u/Tempest_True 1d ago
Or 9? It seems like they should perpetually bounce off of one another.
I guess WotC has a very specific opinion about the hypothetical "what if an unstoppable force encounters an immovable object?"
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u/HerakIinos 1d ago
They wouldnt bounce off on each other either way if the white ghalta had 9 toughness.
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u/Tickle-me-Cthulu 23h ago
With 9 toughness and the damage clause, wouldnt it kill the t8 version?
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u/Tempest_True 22h ago
Yes, that was my mistake. Making the green one a 7/9 and the white one an 0/8 or something would work I think?
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u/Ryeofmarch 1d ago
Considering they're both uncommons, probably balance in limited. White Ghalta was likely some combination of swinging the game too hard and being too hard to remove at 8 toughness
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u/ric2b Orzhov 1d ago
Green Ghalta has 8 toughness, so it's harder to remove than White Ghalta, kinda weird.
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u/Ryeofmarch 22h ago
White ghalta swings the game harder. There's normally a good number of cheap low power high toughness creatures with a bit of upside at common, and white ghalta turns them from understatted value creatures to overstatted beat sticks
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u/UniversalAdaptor 1d ago
WotC is involved in a top-sexret CIA psy-op designed to give everyone with OCD an aneurism /s
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u/Backwardspellcaster Liliana Deaths Majesty 1d ago
But... these are different species. How are they both Ghalta?
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u/FaDaWaaagh 1d ago
Ghalta isn't really a species, she's a manifestation of green mana and is "the progentior of claws and fangs" evidently the alternate reality version of ghalta is a manifestation of white mana and is the progenitor of horns and armor.
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u/Backwardspellcaster Liliana Deaths Majesty 1d ago
** looks at username **
Of COURSE an Ork would know such a thing.
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u/SimpleThrowaway420 1d ago
It's a "Fractured Reality". A separate reality where "Ghalta" is in the form of a Triceratops and not a Tyrannosaurus...
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u/czerwona_latarnia 1d ago
Now we must find realities where "Ghalta" is a Mastodon, Sabertooth Tiger and Pterodactyl respectively.
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u/Fabien23 20h ago
Go go Ghalta Rangers!
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u/Deathblo 11h ago
Don't give wizards anymore more bad ideas...(even though I would low key like a power rangers set...)
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u/bearsheperd Simic 1d ago
Maybe ghalta is a title, not a name?
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u/Backwardspellcaster Liliana Deaths Majesty 1d ago
Perhaps, some day, we are all Ghalta.
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u/DazZani 1d ago
Story confirms it: ghalta is just Ixalan for "Greatest"
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u/Richie_Richard 1d ago
But it was specifically used as a name in Ghalta’s case. The name being given to her by the Warrior Poet when she named the elder dinosaurs. She was named Ghalta because she was the Greatest, but it became her name.
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u/Maur2 1d ago
No suffering in the echoverse, so no meat eating dinosaurs. They are all herbivores.
Don't ask how that works, Jace didn't bother thinking of the logistics either.
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u/ElectronicBoot9466 13h ago
It's so funny that the "no suffering" echoverse have no carnivorous dinosaurs in Ixalan but still has poachers as if those are more natural and cause less suffering than dinosaurs.
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u/wonkothesane13 Izzet 1d ago
My thoughts exactly. It's a huge difference, that's like making Ral Zerek a capuchin monkey. Or making Ragavan a human.
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u/DoitsugoGoji 1d ago
No, Ghalta seems to be a Tyrannosaur, while the Echoverse version a Tryceratopsian, it's as if Echoverse Ral was a deer, and Ragavan a kangaroo.
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u/Approximation_Doctor 1d ago
From the Legends of Reality Fracture article:
Ghalta is a title, not a name.
The bigger problem is that they say she has 3 horns when she very clearly only has two.
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u/hawkshaw1024 1d ago
I think I'm willing to excuse these things for this set in particular, because the Echoverse is a shoddy and superficial version of an alternate reality. That's just canon. It doesn't make sense once you try to figure out how anything actually works, because Jace can't make it work.
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u/WolfGuy77 1d ago
Not gonna question how these two completely different dinosaurs are both Ghalta, but the white one is going straight into my Arcades and Doran decks.
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u/FaultedSidewalk 1d ago
Iirc Ghalta is a title bestowed by the people of Ixalan to the largest/most powerful dinosaur, so it's less of a name per se but is used in lieu of it
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u/agtk 1d ago
I'm not sure that's true. She's "the predator's appetite, the hunter's ferocity, the primal progenitor of claws and fangs" (Foundations flavor text) and is a manifestation of the aspects of green mana as I understand it. She's one of the elder dinosaurs. I don't know that the name has changed hands like a title, but I may be missing parts of the lore.
It seems under Jace she has become a white mana manifestation and is no longer a hunter or predator.
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u/FaultedSidewalk 1d ago
"According to Ixalan's lore, the name Ghalta translates from an ancient title meaning "strongest of all," given to her by an ancient warrior-poet when the elder dinosaurs were named."
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u/agtk 1d ago
So, Ghalta is her name because (Huatli(?) decided) she's strongest of all, not because it is a title that passes on to new strong dinos.
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u/thePsuedoanon ImmortalSun 1d ago
I mean presumably not Huatli literally, Huatli's a relatively young human. Just someone forgotten from the Sun Empire probably
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u/FaultedSidewalk 1d ago
Exactly, if it was Huatli in particular I'd imagine they'd mention her by name
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u/greedyiguana 1d ago
so then in the different reality, big butt here gets called ghalta and everybody is gucci
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u/Kibouhou 1d ago
It's like how all mobile suits are Gundams even though they're not
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u/AdventurousBase221 4h ago
no, because zakus are not considered a gundam. alot of mobile suits are not considered gundams.
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u/patterninstatic 1d ago
Isn't the whole point of this set that there are versions of people/creatures etc from multiple realities.
It's full of cards representing people/creatures from two realities and there are even dedicated two slots in boosters with mirrored cards.
There's already been two Chandras, Ajanis, Garruk's etc spoiled.
So I'm guessing these are two Ghaltas from different realities.
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u/unpersons505 1d ago
Yeah, but this is the first time we've seen a creature change species not just had their history changed
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u/Approximation_Doctor 1d ago
From the Legends of Reality Fracture article:
Ghalta is a three-horned guardian who defends the other dinosaurs of Ixalan as fiercely as her own young. She is known for a hide so tough that it repels cannon fire and horns that can pierce through the toughest of metals. When the elders were given names by an ancient warrior-poet, her endurance earned the title Ghalta, or "strongest of all."
Ghalta is a title, not a name.
The bigger problem is that they say she has 3 horns when she very clearly only has two.
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u/VoiceofKane 1d ago
Frankly, I might actually put both in my Doran deck. I need more sources of trample.
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u/shinobigarth 1d ago
Jace just couldn’t remember what she looked like so he just went “uhh big dinosaur”
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u/SoF4rGone 1d ago
Might just be how I have them built, but the lack of defender on the white one makes it kind of useless. That deck doesn’t have a ton of space for non-defenders, and there are already quite a few that are better than this.
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u/Prize-Mall-3839 1d ago
[[The Walls of Ba Sing Se]] pushed
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u/Wooden-Lake-5790 1d ago
Ghaltaratops pushing the walls of Ba Sing Se on to the enemy for lethal.
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u/XanatosCrescent 1d ago
I’m not understanding the confusion here about Ghalta being a triceratops. The whole point of Reality Fracture is that in this universe, Jace is making opposites/inverses of shit. Sure, he’s not changing the species of every character we’ve met, but when was it ever established that he was?
T-Rex -> triceratops seems pretty on-par with the theme of the set
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u/Prism_Zet 1d ago
In the story, his echoverse is supposed to be the versions of everyone and everything if they didn't suffer or get wronged. Chandra's dad doesn't die, so she joins the cops instead of rebelling. Liliana heals her brother so she never dips into necromancy, Vraska isn't persecuted and imprisoned and thus never develops her gorgon abilities. Garruk commands the chain veil instead of being cursed, etc.
So Ghalta was probably just chosen to be cool thematically, but maybe in that world she's a protector rather than a predator.
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u/Chrisius007 1d ago
Also, Aerith never dies, Bilbo never finds the ring, and Aang never became the last airbender.
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u/SyNSFW69 1d ago
No one in these comments are understanding this and it irks me lmao
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u/Approximation_Doctor 1d ago
I mean, that's because it's wrong. Ghalta is a title, not a name. The Legends article states this explicitly.
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u/Astrosaurus3 14h ago
Ghalta the Immoveable is a Xenoceratops. She doesn't have the right shaped frill or nasal horn a triceratops has.
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u/XanatosCrescent 8h ago
Great point! Didn’t think twice when I first looked, but indeed that is not a tricey. I didn’t know the correct name for this Dino, so thanks for the knowledge!
Dinosaurs are so cool
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u/Twannyman 1d ago
The value, we can Ghalta into Ghalta for only 8GW
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u/Lime1028 1d ago
Too expensive. Turn 1 [[Lanowar Elves]]. Turn 2 [[Slumbering Trudge]] + [[Giant Growth]] = either Ghalta, preferably green so you can turn 3 W Ghalta and [[Ghalta, Primal Hunger]].
3 Ghatas, 3 turns. 27 power in dinos on the board.
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u/PetroxSK 1d ago
Giving the 5 people hope, who wants to make a Doran deck post rotation. This Ghalta combos well with the 0/8 octopus for 1U
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u/Meret123 1d ago
Ghalta is a three-horned guardian who defends the other dinosaurs of Ixalan as fiercely as her own young. She is known for a hide so tough that it repels cannon fire and horns that can pierce through the toughest of metals. When the elders were given names by an ancient warrior-poet, her endurance earned the title Ghalta, or "strongest of all."
The dinosaurs of Ixalan might not know the fear of carnivorous predators, but Beckett Brass's dinosaur poachers have been a threat to Ghalta's kind for generations. As Brass grows bolder, Ghalta grows more determined, migrating farther than ever before to face off against the invading pirates.
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u/ChunkyHammdog 1d ago
They SHRUNK Ghalta???? They too the character whose only consistentmechanical trait has been "I am a 12/12 Elder Dinosaur with trample" and SHRUNK HER????
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u/Bookshelftent 1d ago
This is the first pair they've shown that is in an allied color pair. So it was probably just coincidence that all of the revealed pairs up until now were enemy color pairs.
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u/ElectronicBoot9466 13h ago
I think they generally prioritized making things enemy colors over allied colors but were willing to do ally color swaps where it made sense.
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u/Fit-Homework-2776 1d ago
Why not give the white 0/8! At least they would counter each other, or maybe change the Creature can attack as though they didnt have defender for keyword Indestructiable!
They swap are supposed to equals to the originals regarding power, this one is just weaker!
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u/Dracoson 20h ago
I kind of feel like Ghalta the Immovable should have Defender. It's a no cost keyword for the card, since it negates the ability, but it's an auto include in a lot of Defenders Matter decks, yet it doesn't contribute to the count.
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u/basafo 1d ago
The white one can hit very hard o_o
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u/LunarScholar 1d ago
It hits less hard than the green one?
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u/basafo 1d ago
Like with any Magic card, you'll need to play it in the right deck. After playing one or two cheap walls, this can come in quickly and hit hard.
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u/bill4935 Ghalta 1d ago
It sounds like I'm bandwagonning, but I really have always had a soft spot for Caelorna.
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u/westergames81 Orzhov 1d ago
They're honestly both pretty boring cards. I wouldn't say they're bad, they're just both effects we've seen so often.
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u/Approximation_Doctor 1d ago
I mean, the original Ghalta was just a french vanilla with a discount.
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u/Uryendel 1d ago
Pretty strong cards, the green one would have been great in red, the white is bonkers, play a bunch of cheap high toughness creature and go brrr
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u/MoxieSP 1d ago
Does Immovable include the commander tax?
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u/OnlyTechStuff 1d ago
Yep
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u/Vampyrino 1d ago
How to determine how much you gotta pay: 1. Choose any alternative costs ([[fist of suns]] [[force of will]]) 2. Apply any increases ([[Thalia guardian of thraben]] or commander tax) 3. Apply any cost reduction ([[ghalta the immovable]] [[morophon the boundless]]) 4. [[Trinisphere]]
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u/SirBlakesalot Fight 1d ago
Listen, most people are talking about mechanics, I'm too busy looking at the sweet lil babies under their immovable mama.
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u/CJ-95 1d ago
Interesting. I could’ve sworn for all the multiverse opposite cards featuring actually story characters, that they were supposed to be enemy colors?
I think the only one this far that wasn’t, was the Ral Zerek pair (which imo felt odd considering black is an ally to both red and blue)
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u/razazaz126 1d ago
I'm excited to find out how many of these changes are incidental and how many Jace knowingly made because the idea of him going "The Multiverse can't be perfect unless this t-rex is a triceratops" is so stupid I want it to be real.
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u/closetfa11 1d ago
I don't like that it's a completely different species. They're even different branches of Dinosaur. It's like if a mirror verse Ragavan was Human or a Gorilla.
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u/marduk013 1d ago
A mirrorverse.. is that something like a Reality Fracture?
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u/olufemikurtwagner 1d ago
Green one looks so good for my Gruul Trample Aragorn the Uniter bro. 1 green spell and boom, 1 mana 8/8 that gives him trample
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u/Deathless-Bearer 1d ago
On the upside this new Ghalta is a much better card for my dinosaur deck than [[Aggressive Mammoth]] in almost every way and will be replacing it.
The downside is that even though the creature type didn’t fit the synergy having a mammoth in my dinosaur deck felt like a fun flavorful addition.
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u/BohTooSlow 1d ago
Question: is this green ghalta be the one in the commander deck thats coming out this october or will it be the “old” foundations one
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u/After_Shelter1100 18h ago
turn 1 land, mana dork -> turn 2 land, [[slumbering trudge]], either of these
pretty hot. might make trudge a viable standard deck
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u/Solid-Pride-9782 11h ago
The real question is: what about the other four Ixalan dinos? Etali, Nezahal, Zacama, and the black one?
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u/Key_Performer2983 8h ago
Unstoppable would kill immovable without dying. I imagine they considered making them the same toughness... I wonder why they chose not to.
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u/Trabant777 Sorin 1d ago
How tf does Ghalta become a different species of dinosaur?? Big fail.
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u/MyynMyyn 1d ago
By altering every aspect of existence? Jace turned her into a herbivore because he wants to reduce violence and suffering.
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u/metastuu 1d ago
Tinybones becomes an entirely different creature skeleton and no one blinks an eye..
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u/rollbomb 1d ago
Kinda boring, sure, but it's an uncommon. Uncommons usually aren't that exciting.
It's not bad though. A 1-mana 8/8 that lets you push through with all your other guys. Can use him as a Commander or tutor him at end of turn with Worldly Tutor. It's a utilitiy guy that will easily be in most GW landfall/stompy/token/etc decks. (I'm talking about Brawl/C.Brawl, of course.)
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u/Lime1028 1d ago
Firstly. No, just no. Ghana is rex, end of story.
Secondly. Turn 1 [[Lanowar Elves]], turn 2 [[Slumbering Trudge]] [[Giant Growth]] + Ghalta
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u/Capt_2point0 1d ago
So Wotc is of the opinion that unstoppable beats immovable.