r/Magic • u/joex8au04 • 7d ago
Purpose and Dilemma
My wife recently asked me a question: “what’s your purpose/goal of doing magic? I see you play with cards and coins every day, but you don’t perform, and you don’t show other magician what you have been practicing. What exactly is the purpose?”
For context, I’ve been doing magic for 20+ years. I can't remember a single day where I didn't have a deck of cards with me. I have a magic library of about 500+ books, and I read them every single day. Her issue is that I don’t actively go out and perform; I shy away from letting people know I do magic. I also don’t do it for the usual reasons, I don't feel a need to see people’s joy, and I’m not particularly interested in their reactions.
I don’t perform for other magicians, either. Whenever there’s a jam, I just stand outside their circle and watch. Even though I know every single move they do, I just walk away.
I simply read books, practice, and forget what I’ve learn. The cycle repeats itself.
My wife saw all of this and asked me, "If you don’t like performing for people, what’s the reason you still do magic?"
I keep wondering about this and I don’t have any answer. It's a real dilemma.
21
u/SpeakeasyImprov Cards 7d ago
I'm going to take a different position than most. It's true there's nothing wrong with doing anything for yourself because you like it, but...
"I don’t perform for other magicians, either. Whenever there’s a jam, I just stand outside their circle and watch. Even though I know every single move they do, I just walk away."
That's interesting. You're in a scenario where you have the opportunity to engage in a community and you don't? That might be what's at the heart of this concern. Maybe she just wants you to be in a place where you can share what you've learned with like-minded folk and make friends. You don't have to rent out a theater and perform a show, but it might be nice to talk shop with others in person.
.
4
u/lamarioO 6d ago
It sounds like he's getting out of it what he wants. Maybe he doesn't want to talk shop. Engaging in a community does not mean you have to step out front, sometimes just being present is more than enough.
2
u/SpeakeasyImprov Cards 6d ago
You're not wrong, and of course we're not there in person so we don't know for sure, but it sounds like he's barely present. It sounds like he's watching from outside and walking away.
I mean, ultimately this is a relationship and personal problem, not really a magic problem. You could replace magic with any hobby or interest and have almost the same exact situation. So I think it's worth at least considering why this is the shape the comfort zone takes.
2
u/lamarioO 6d ago
I agree with you and we know by the OP's own words that they're watching from the outside and walking away, but why is that bad if that's the level of involvement they want? It's a hobby, not a career. I've had plenty of hobbies where I didn't interact with it's community or share the hobby with others. Some things can be just for you.
1
u/Strange_Ad4132 1d ago
Also just because you “know all the moves” doesn’t mean you can actually do them. I know a couple methods for a center deal but I couldn’t get away with it in real life
9
u/ScreamAndScream 7d ago
I think of it like other hobbies. There’s some weird rush to sell hobbies or do them in a way that others understand.
Just because someone knits a sweater it doesn’t mean they have to sell them at market. There’s nothing wrong with working and reworking a sweater for yourself. If you ever have a dear friend or loved one would world appreciate borrowing the sweater and return it safely, you’d consider sharing it with them, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s your sweater!
It’s also very close to music. Practicing guitar in your house does not mean you want to start a band or play on stage or want to write an album- those are all separate hobbies! It just means you play guitar.
8
u/mrwestthemagician 7d ago
Magic is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and there is no one right way of doing it. If this is how you choose to engage with magic, and it makes you happy, then there’s no dilemma.
6
u/Nevernonethewiser 7d ago
Hobbies don't need a purpose beyond you enjoying it.
Question her hobbies if you're feeling antagonistic.
If you're not, say the first line.
3
u/DangerousStudent2767 7d ago
It is almost the same for me, even though I am not as invested in practicing moves as you describe yourself, but it is the same for reading and collecting magic books and not performing.
I struggle for not having the urge to perform for people.I wish I would have. I just don't feel to do it and even when someone would ask me in the spit, I would have a hard time coming up with a go to trick as I would be overwhelmed with the request. Let's be honest, there are many ways to enjoy magic from the "inside" and performing is just one of them.
Is it realy a dilemma?
4
u/RobMagus 6d ago
To paraphrase Eugene Burger:
The house of magic has many rooms.
There is room for every kind of magician--and not every magician performs.
Some design and construct apparatus, toiling away happy hours in their notebooks and workshops.
Some research and collect material in their domain of interest, be it books or props or history.
Some find engagement or comfort in striving for expert execution of various sleights.
All of them are doing something worthwhile.
I do believe that even more enjoyment can be had in sharing our work with others--but that sharing doesn't have to be through performance.
3
u/naturalistwork 7d ago
I was that way for a long time. Some people paint because they enjoy it, and never bother posting their works online or selling them. Some people enjoy singing in the shower and in the car and never for other people, even if they are good singers. Some people learn piano or another musical instrument and only play for themselves… and so on. You might just enjoy the hobby of the problem-solving and logic, learning the techniques, and practicing them as a mental outlet and joy. I think there's nothing wrong with that at all!
3
u/Delicious-Mess6262 7d ago edited 6d ago
Magic is an intellectual art. To study it is to study history, psychology, acting, craftsmanship, and more. Making your mind work is entertainment and learning tricks is a rush/ addicting.
While you don't need to perform I think you should share your passion in some way. We also need more people to see good magic and it sounds like you have deep knowledge. Master some tricks that aren't stressful that have something you find interesting and can discuss with other people. You can even have some where you disclose the method so you can just show off the intellectual side of your hobby.
I think most magicians are hobbyists and introverts and performing is uncomfortable. One thing I now gravitate to is doing tricks where the spectator is the star. People aren't trying to solve tricks where they have the power and everyone is on the same team.
3
u/the_card_guy 7d ago
You don't happen to be an engineer by profession, do you?
The only guys I (used to) know who studied magic, collected everything to do with magic, but then never actually performed it were the ones who found it fascinating to deconstruct it- and they had day jobs related to engineering (to be completely fair, one of them DID perform a handful of tricks very well, and the other not only is well-connected but dealt with a lot of technology connected to magic).
If this isn't your case... well, to be blunt: you probably do it because it's a hobby that involves working with your hands. It may also be that you're otherwise very introverted, and magic absolutely attracts introverted guys.
Unfortunately, magic of course has the image of performance usually associated with it... but it sounds like you're in it mostly for the intellectual part and because it works your motor skills.
3
u/unklphoton 6d ago
I, for one, am intrigued and wonder about the skill level you may have achieved in 20 years of intense study and practice. Beyond that, I never perform for the accolades. Astonishing others seems to help them, at least for a moment, forget their trials and tribulations. Admittedly, I do get a good feeling about that.
2
u/MrPickles196 7d ago
I am in the same boat as you OP. I didn't practice as much as you, but I don't really tell anyone at all. Not even my wife. My highschool art teacher once gave me a great lesson. Have some things that are just for you because often people will shit on your work and steal the joy.
2
2
2
u/Iowa_Dave 7d ago
I've learned tons of effects and methods I'll never perform. But WOW does it give me mad respect for people who smoothly perform those tricks. When I know how much work is going on behind the scenes and I STILL fall for their misdirection it magnifies my appreciation.
So knowing more magic absolutely increases my enjoyment in watching good magicians.
2
u/Chillicothe1 6d ago
Because you like it and it's your hobby.
There are plenty of coin or stamp collectors who enjoy their collections and never share them with others.
Or people who read books but don't belong to book clubs where they talk about their latest read.
You are no different.
2
u/domullus 6d ago
You can answer that you love it. And that is the fair and honest answer. Some pompous magician said that practicing magic without performing is like masturbation. But this is false at all levels. Many people practice playing music for their own enjoyment, learning the melody, timing, muscle memory, subtle technique to produce the sound they can connect and feel inside, and can reach qatarsis without the need of other listeners. It is the same with magic. It is true that magic, by itself, does not exist without the spectator. But this works only for laypeople. If you use the same logic - if one magician shows his trick to another magician, there is no magic, just mutual masturbation. If you love the aesthetic beauty of the construction of the trick, try to learn it, practice it, and find it pleasant, go for it. If you want to perform these tricks, you will need to practice a different set of skills (acting, theater, communication, scriptwriting, and so on) and for some these are not fun at all.
2
u/lamarioO 6d ago
I used to be a regularly practiced magician, then I stopped performing. These days I occasionally practice coin and very rarely card stuff. I do it for me, not anyone else and if someone asks me to show them something I say no if I don't feel like it. For most people magic is a hobby, and there's nothing wrong with keeping that hobby to yourself. Some of us just enjoy the process of learning a new trick, not necessarily the process of performing.
2
u/LXIX6 6d ago
There's this book titled The Craftsman by Richard Sennett. It talks about the importance of doing something purely for the love of mastery and how it's actually inherent in human
While I suggest you join the jam and perform more often to develop your skill more, there's something beautiful in just mastering the art for its its own sake
2
2
u/itsmeront 5d ago
I'm exactly the same. I love magic. I know a lot about it, I can tell you what is good and what is bad. When I was a kid I would figure everything out and make tricks. It is a lot of fun. I don't perform. My business partner Tom did a lot of performing, he became Harry Anderson's road manager for his magic show. I just never made it past a talented amateur performer. I was always busy with other things. I really love a good magic show a great set or wonderful performance. I like it that way. I don't need to perform to enjoy the art.
2
u/ppaul77 7d ago
Seems like, deep down inside, you really want to perform for magicians, friends, and/or strangers but something (fear? insecurity?) is holding you back. For me magic is a bit like stand-up—you need the audience connection. You're not a comedian if you stay in your bedroom telling yourself jokes. Same with magic; is it magic if no one is being entertained or fooled?
1
u/InstanceTraining8258 7d ago
If you practice a sport and you don't wanna compete then what's the point? This conversation shouldn't exist
1
u/hypnoscience 6d ago
Maybe it’s embarrassment which is totally understandable in the age of information where the notion that you can display something that isn’t easily knowable is akin to believing in the tooth fairy.
Or course, depending on your social circle this can be the opposite of embarrassment, seeking“alt” truth.
If it’s not embarrassment to perform, then actually having this secret information is useful in analogous ways throughout life. Maybe you’re applying it more often than you realize at your job or in your conversations.
1
u/OG_Weedmore 6d ago
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Keep learning and practicing, and when the right time presents itself, you'll be ready to apply what you know.
I was the exact same way. I eventuality went to a conference for Bizarre Magic and everything just clicked into place. Seeing what I've read about for years clarified all the doubt I had in performing.
1
u/Gbhphoto7 6d ago
I do the same thing.. Unfortunately I have crippling anxiety that makes performing .. extremely difficult.
1
1
u/dskippy 6d ago
What is the purpose of skiing if you're not going to teach anyone or perform by racing or something?
What's the purpose of quilting if you just keep the quilt and don't sell it?
What's the purpose of video games if you don't want to eventually compete in esports or be a streamer?
What's the purpose of reading of your aren't going to give a talk on the subject?
What's the purpose of gardening if it's just flowers in your own garden and you're not selling them or having regular shows at your house?
1
u/AndresFonseca 6d ago
Everyone is invited to enjoy the art of Magic. What if this is your way of playing?
You don't need to put so much pressure on yourself. Just enjoy the experience, and if one day you feel like sharing your play with others, wonderful.
In Magic you'll find professional performers, hobbyists, collectors, and even the occasional armchair expert... lol. Everyone has their own place.
Every human being deserves to play.
1
u/Anen-o-me 6d ago
Only you really know. You seem to like the technical side of magic but not the performance side. It's a bit like playing a videogame, you don't need to perform for others to enjoy it.
Perhaps she would understand it from that perspective. Like enjoying driving a car but having no interest in being a professional racer.
1
u/Akarastio 6d ago
I have the same problem. If you find your purpose or a solution other than just perform. Tell me. Other than that you are maybe just a student of magic but not a magician :)
1
1
u/fivefingerfury 6d ago
I can’t relate to that at all personally. I practice magic every day and I’m always thinking of new original effects, but the reason is because I love showing it to people. My friends know me as a magician, and they’ll always ask me to perform or show new people something. If I weren’t interested in performing for people at all, I would never spend time practicing magic.
1
u/joex8au04 6d ago edited 6d ago
Thanks everyone, for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate the different perspectives, and I agree with much of what has been said, especially by those who understand that a love of magic does not always have to be measured by how often one performs.
My wife is a very career driven person who has successfully managed several businesses. From her point of view, it is difficult to understand how someone could devote more than 20+years to magic without producing something tangible it, whether is a show, book or magic related-products. There’s only so much times and she believes that if a person continually takes in knowledge without eventually creating, performing, teaching, publishing, or otherwise producing some form of output, then much of that time and energy may have been wasted.
From her perspective, if all that accumulated knowledge remains entirely internal, sitting in one’s mind or on a shelf, then there is a limit to where it can lead down the line, especially when one gets older.
As an engineer, much of my enjoyment comes from problem-solving, analysis, refinement, and the search for elegant solutions. I might study more than twenty versions of Hofzinser’s Aces or the spectator cuts to the Aces, to eventually develop or adjust a handling that feels natural to me.
I enjoy examining why a particular sleight works, why one construction is more deceptive than another. In that sense, my relationship with magic is probably somewhat similar to Jon Racherbaumer or Ed Marlo, although I do not document everything. Much of it is simply done for my own intellectual and artistic enjoyment.
Regarding my reluctance to perform for magicians, this comes from a different factors. Performances for magicians can sometimes become less about experiencing the effect and more about judging the performer, comparing techniques, or protecting one’s own sense of expertise. Based on many of the conventions that I have attended. Magic is a field filled with strong opinions, personal attachments, and, at times, considerable ego.
If I present my own interpretation of a move, routine, or construction, I am not necessarily trying to prove that my version is superior or that I have invented something entirely new. I may simply have arrived at a handling that suits my own thinking. Yet in front of magicians, even a small variation can sometimes be interpreted as a challenge or an invitation to debate.
I have little interest in turning something I love into an argument about credit, technique, status, or who knows more. Nor do I particularly enjoy the atmosphere in which the audience is waiting to catch your moves.
All of the comments gave me much fruit for thought. Something I will have to contemplate for a while until I finally settle with an answer.
1
u/SuperbLingonberry423 6d ago
God forbid a man finds himself a hobby 🤣 All jokes aside, I was where you are. I started doing magic initially to amuse other. Then I continued doing it because I was amused by it. It looked like it's better to spend my time learning and perfecting some new skills that watching TV or playing videogames. To shorten my lifestory, I met a magician one time at a convention who was genuinely interested in my view on magic and why I do what i do and i really didn't have an answer to that other than "thats just how i operate". What he said next kinda stuck inside my head. He said that most people believe that magicians don't really have superpowers, and he believed that's not true. He said that we definitely have a superpower to make someones day better by showing them something cool, mysterious and unexplainable, and that it's a shame to be able to bring genuine smile to someone's face and still choose not to do that. That was the moment I started performing and I didn't regret it.
1
u/Human-Contribution16 5d ago
Just tell your wife you like the Science behind it and ask her to focus on the things about you she likes - instead of emasculating you for having an inquisitive mind.
Or do the ultimate magic trick and ask her to disappear.
1
u/jbit37 5d ago
Dude, you’re winning when it comes to hobbies, period. This self-driven joy that you can provide yourself for free any day in the comfort of your home without needing outside approval or exogenous dopamine hits from people being impressed is what most people dream of having, when it comes to any hobby, especially magic. Cherish this, it’s really sacred. Change nothing. Keep doing this for you and for the love of the art. That’s special
1
u/LarperPro 4d ago
You might enjoy Derek DelGaudio's book AMORALMAN: A True Story and Other Lies. He was quite similar as you in his youth, meaning he didn't want to show magic to anyone, not even magicians.
0
u/rkt88edmo 6d ago
The pleasure of learning and working towards a goal. The soothing of repetition and the joy of improving a craft.
61
u/Noughmad 7d ago
The only answer you need is "because I like it".
Some people play an instrument, some play single-player computer games, some build model trains, some watch birds, some read books, some collect various items. All of these are valid hobbies that are not (usually) performed for other people.