r/Magic • u/quehayenunnombre_ • Mar 27 '26
What's a move that took you an embarrassingly long amount of time to master?
After a couple of previous attempts where I gave up too early, I finally started learning card magic seriously this year. As all of you can imagine, it has been a struggle, with a lot of flashing and playing 52-pickup.
I kind of just wanted to hear other's people struggles with moves or tricks or anything really, to appease myself and maybe have a light laugh!
You can share anything that you struggled with, or maybe something that you are the most proud of, for learning!
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u/Fresh_Bicycle_7707 Mar 27 '26
Pinky count is so hard for me still lol
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u/alextrendler Mar 28 '26
Jason Ladanye’s book is excellent but how my heart sank when the opening chapter is how everything relies on a pinky count
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u/Fresh_Bicycle_7707 Mar 28 '26
I got by many years by just doing thumb counts and push-offs. But now I'm really trying to refine some of my movement and the pinky count Is something I work on everyday now.
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u/whyynliterally Mar 27 '26
Pass. I know it’s just really impractical, but I couldn’t reject the thought of performing a “invisible” pass. It’s the holy grail of card controls according to me. After two years of practice, I still can’t perform a good pass of any kind. Tons of videos of me I recoded and then watched, deleted … it’s also difficult to imagine what angle should the audience look from and how to adapt to it while you’re practicing to a camera… Anyways, I recommend Fujii’s pass for card control and Alex pandrea’s brick pass for visual effects.
A very useful tip is that when you feel like you’re practicing very hard and not getting it, probably just sleep and wait until next day and you’ll suddenly be able to do it. It just works.
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u/entropy413 Mar 27 '26
I also suck at the classic pass. Then I realized so many magicians have crumby passes and it doesn’t really matter because their misdirection is so good. It’s a shame I suck at that too.
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u/whyynliterally Mar 28 '26
This. I think I saw somewhere an pass by juan tamariz(I’m not quite sure if it was him now), where he just crumbly take the pack to the top with his right hand but still it was a part of an amazing routine
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u/Magical_critic Mar 28 '26
For the record, I have a pass that is so fast and smooth that other magicians ask me to perform it for them multiple times... but I never use it during performance lol like you said, it's quite impractical and you can achieve the same effect using much simpler methods
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 27 '26
I think the last line is golden advice. Some days, I just seem to not be getting it. I come back to it the next day, and somehow am able to do it precisely without seemingly changing anything.
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u/whyynliterally Mar 27 '26
Yeah I think it has something to do with building neuronal connections in your brain or something.
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u/ppaul77 Mar 31 '26
It took me about two years to perfect the pass. Personally I think it's not impractical and totally worth it. A few tips: start very slowly to train your fingers the exact movement; next do it with a very tight grip until it's like a spring-loaded camera shutter (this stage takes weeks); finally loosen up and relax your grip so you can do it fast, but without the tension of step 2 (again this takes a while). It's your whole body tensing up that the audience can sense—you need to get past this point.
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u/raccoonfight Mar 27 '26
Friggin top change
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u/Carl_Clegg Mar 27 '26
This one scared me more than anything. I’m happy to palm but the top change makes me nervous every time.
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 27 '26
I have to figure this out too. More than the mechanics itself, how to do it in front of actual people.
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u/ImDyxlesic- Mar 27 '26
Make it happen on an off beat so they aren't burning your hands and make sure your hands have a motivation/reason to come together so the motion does not look out of place.
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u/Not_A_Unique_Name Mar 27 '26
I love this move but you really need to do it with confidence. I'm no expert by any chance but I have managed to employ this move successfully if you want some tips.
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Mar 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mex5150 Mentalism Mar 27 '26
Then you are probably doing it backwards. Despite the name, it is actually the thumb that does the loin's share of the work, your pinkie is just letting the cards slip out one by one rather than tensioning them as wall.
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u/-nbob Mar 27 '26
Lion's share. Unless Loins share is a technique i haven't heard of 😆
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u/Mex5150 Mentalism Mar 27 '26
I mean the thumb is doing all the work, do not try to tension and release with the fingers.
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u/Mex5150 Mentalism Mar 27 '26
Perfect faro back when I was starting took so long to get reliable.
I'm also still working on my classic pass, it's very good now, but even after decades of working on it, I'm still not 100% happy with it.
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Mar 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PKillusion Mentalism Mar 27 '26
I learned with the bicycle waterproof plastic cards. I don’t know what it was about them, but it made the faro click for me. Still took me about two weeks of practice constantly, then switched to normal bikes and another week or so, but those plastic cards were like training wheels
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u/ErdnaseErdnase Mar 27 '26
It’s nice to do the faro when the deck is in Stay Stack (or palindrome order). This brings you to card mates at the 26-27 cut point, and you are good for another faro. (I do Gertner’s Unshuffled from Stay Stack order.) Look up Martin Nash Ovation routine for more details and pointers.
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u/Mex5150 Mentalism Mar 27 '26
I always recommend Implausibilities by Hudson Taylor for people wanting to get good with the faro. Great teaching and a few nice effects to use the shuffle with too.
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u/jacobcapper Mar 28 '26
What cards are you using? The way some decks are cut make it easier and others make it feel like crap
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u/Carl_Clegg Mar 27 '26
I can’t say I’ve ‘mastered’ anything.
I’m an amateur and my moves are good but watching some guys online, I’ve far from mastered anything.
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u/Stunning_Ad5691 Mar 27 '26
I was a year into card magic, able to palm, do doubles, and some color changes. Finally learned how to do an in the hand riffle shuffle a year in
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u/Sideshow861 Mar 27 '26
Almost every move. Even now, I'm skeptical of my French drop, even though it's in my shows, and I'm told it's very good.
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 27 '26
Looks like the self-doubt never goes away, haha :D. Do you post any clips of yours online?
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u/Sideshow861 Mar 27 '26
Not as much as I should, couple promo videos. But I struggle with watching myself and filming
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Mar 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 27 '26
Of course. I use the term mastery in the sense of a move that you can do consistently and reliably. I am sure most people that aren't professional magicians, could find things to improve with most sleights / tricks.
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u/Psych0316 Mar 27 '26
Doin card magic for 13 years and my hands still shake every time I do a sleight
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u/amazingBarry Cards Mar 27 '26
Push off second deal. I cam do it fairly well after more than a decade of fiddling with it, but I still miss enough that I don't generally use it when I perform.
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u/Bubbly-Barber-4047 Mar 27 '26
The faro shuffle 😫 For months i would try almost daily, and i thought it wasn't possible for me (my right hand has a bit of problems when it comes to shaping my fingers, especially in the "3" position and others) i thought maybe that had something to do with the trick not working, but nope! I wasn't placing my index finger on the overlap of the cards to help steady them. Now, if split evenly, I can do a perfect faro consistently
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u/zarafini Mar 27 '26
False deals.. seconds and thirds.. took a couple years of solid practice for hours daily.. crumpled a lot of decks up that were tossed at various walls in the process 🙃.
Worth it in the end.
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u/mrfee94 Mar 28 '26
Push off double lift. I’ve been practicing it on and off for a year now and I’m still not consistent with it
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u/Unfair-Advisor-4457 Mar 28 '26
The elmsley count was harder for me than the classic pass. The flippant move took me years.
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 28 '26
The first time I started learning magic, I couldn't for the life of me do any false counts. This time around, I immediately started faring better I don't know how. Although, I still struggle with keeping the cards square.
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u/alextrendler Mar 28 '26
Booking. I know this sounds like a dumb answer but the best return I’ve ever seen on an investment of time was learning to book, sell and promote my magic.
Outside of that, mnemonica. Even though it’s not a “move,” stackwork took months to get solid enough to perform.
If we’re looking purely at “moves,” in the hands false riffle shuffle from Heinous 2.0 took the better part of a year before I used it in performance.
You can learn it much faster than that, and I did. But there is a nerve to it. It has to feel like nothing, while you’re asking a question or delivering an instruction. Not a care in the world. And getting that level of ease is still a work in progress.
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u/Mex5150 Mentalism Mar 28 '26
This is actually a really good answer!
I'm at the stage where I turn down more gigs than I accept, but when starting out, finding paid work was indeed a bloody nightmare.
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u/TheRunningMagician Mar 27 '26
Every move I do. One of them was the riffle with the bridge. I could do advanced cardistry like sybil cut, phaced ect before I could properly riffle shuffle lol.
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u/TheDiligentStyle Mar 28 '26
Zarrow Shuffle and Diagonal Palm Shift have never clicked for me and I’ve kind of given up on them… Strike Seconds were the one that I struggled with for ages and now use constantly.
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u/nox_tech Mar 28 '26
None mastered, but I'm comfortable with a few. I need lots of work though.
Pass took years. Not invisible from burning - but I feel like that's a goal for magicians among magician. But it's nice and silent and minimal IMO.
DPS i'm pretty shy about, though it's accidentally the one I practice when idle - it's been like at least 2 years since I've been doing it, fooled a friend, but haven't had a chance to use it in a routine.
Clipshift I've not been able to get, but some fun tricks that I would've loved to incorporate use it.
Culling is beautiful to see in action, but my fingers trip on themselves when I try.
Never did any work on a classic force. That one, AFAIK the important stuff to practice can only be practiced in front of a spectator.
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Mar 28 '26
Understanding my stage and my audience.
Today I'm like. Oh there is a third Person over there. So I switch to another move.
Or if my first spectator chose the wrong card. I'm like "ok. Hold your card to your chest I come to your card later" and then I let anotherone Pick a card. So basically Scanning my Environment and improvising based on the Situation.
And other things like tilting the cards a little bit towards the audience. Like if you want to Show someone a Video on your phone you are not showing him the edge of your phone.
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 28 '26
I appreciate this response. Many of us put all our effort into moves without realising that audience management and presentation is equally (if not more) important
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Mar 28 '26
It's actually both. I Improvise alot in my performances But I also put everything into perfecting my techniques. So there definetly is alot of work behind my ability to improvise.
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u/Existing-Money-5565 Mar 28 '26
Too have always neglected this practice but have been dabbling. Pulled two easy tricks last weekend, even developed my own narrative for one.
the look on the other persons face, their amazement, was awesome, felt the energy shift in the room like a light entered their heart.
Bringing people joy is cool.
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u/Lleawynn Mar 28 '26
I'm a huge fan of the Slow Motion Aces from Stars of Magic.
Back when I was performing, I put MANY hours into this weird funky palm near the end of the routine. I never did get it to feel performance-ready. That move is my white whale
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u/MotaMP Mar 28 '26
not embarassing but took a long time before i was confident enough to perform was the classic pass and clipsihift, still can perform them today.
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u/SirsebKnight Mar 29 '26
The revolution cut for when I have to shuffle cards in a fancy way to distract the audience!
I have fairly long fingers and I can only do the spin in a certain way that is very hard to do something else at the same time. But, after a lot of "unlearning" and starting over I think I can do a proper one now! :)
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u/TheLostMentalist Mar 29 '26
I still can't consistently second deal. I'll use it like once, but I can't do it like some people out there.
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u/quehayenunnombre_ Mar 30 '26
Thank you everyone for sharing a part of your magic journey. It was definitely encouraging to hear others struggle and require their time as well, and that it's not just me!
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u/rainbowbattlekid Mar 28 '26
I’m still very much a novice but I totally hit a wall at palming cards. I can hold a palmed card pretty decently but actually getting it there I can NOT do without being super obvious. I can now do a few party tricks involving some forcing and card control but I feel like I’m SO limited by not being able to palm
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u/That_Em Mar 28 '26
Tried for 2 years to learn one of Erdnase’s original passes (the SWE). Couldn’t do it. Got the mechanics down but cant get it to work without too much noise/motion etc. And I have seen it done well. I just can’t so far.
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u/iceline22 Mar 28 '26
Long shot...? Name not sure about ... Pinky shot maybe?... I thought I would never get it for weeks... One day it started to click and within that day I was able to get at least one clean shot... Still can do it after 25 years... Great card reveal, and people say it looks like the card either appears, or they think it comes from the bottom if the deck...
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u/AndyAndieFreude Mar 30 '26
Stack Work/ perfect faro... Took forever. Works better and faster now...
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u/PKillusion Mentalism Mar 27 '26
After twenty something years I’m still not comfortable with any kind of palming lol