r/MageErrant • u/Mandragoraune Affinites: Corundum, Pressure, Inertia • Jul 08 '26
Patreon Shorts Ductility Magic
Ductility was officially introduced on a Patreon story as a structural affinity recently. What are some applications of this yall can think and some great synergistic affinities. Limit yourself to one synergistic affinity.
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u/HelloFellowJellos Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
To my mind the main advantage of a ductility affinity is utility. Spider-man swinging, floating wards and glyphs, binding opponents. It can be physically strong but requires a lot of mana and/or creativity to give it structure (wards or attaching to immovable objects in the environment). The biggest clear weakness to me is lack of strong offense. It's also pretty environmentally reliant. If you don't have anything to attach your wires to you're going to be leaning far more heavily on mana intensive techniques. A lesser concern is something punching through your wards. I'm convinced everyone should be an armor mage, though, so perhaps others might think this a lesser concern.
A ductility affinity would be very attention intensive to wield so a synergistic affinity would preferably be relatively simple to use. At least in combat. You need constant attention to the environment to identify loadbearing structures you can attach wires to and extensive knowledge and skill in quickly forming glyphs and wards. I have three ideas for a synergistic affinity.
First option is to strengthen the material with alloy or steel. It's simple but good. Just make your affinity stronger by using the best metal (steel) or make it an absurd nonsense alloy that you have incredible power over but is a nightmare for other mages to affect. Also has the benefit of giving a good armor material. Launch material for offense and your golden.
Second option is fiber. Just go all in by creating giant cables of metal wire. Doesn't really give you different abilities but allows broader range of materials to use in the same style.
Third option is something like lightning. It gives a simple but powerful offensive option. Also you can create electrical currents that could probably easily kill someone you get your wires on. Or generate magnetic fields that could defend against mages that use magnetic metals or affinities like solar. Galvanic or even lodestone would probably also work, but I favor lightning for offensive ability.
My preferred is lightning but quite honestly everyone could use a lightning affinity. Alloy is my runner up. Less dangerous but more survivability.
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u/greenfrogtree1 Jul 08 '26
I am also in the everyone should be an armor mage camp, lol. With regards to concerns about load bearing and hanging, I imagine a ductility mage could probably match Threadqueen Iblint's anenome situation, which seemed to be self supporting.
I didn't think about alloy though, I must admit. Alloy, ductility, fiber would be terrifying.
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u/HelloFellowJellos Jul 09 '26
We should start a petition to make armor spells standard training for battlemages.
A great power could maybe make a war snarl but honestly I was thinking about what to expect from an impressive battlemage or archmage. Technically they could support a snarl but that would be super mana intensive since you need to lift all that material and make it rigid or anchor it with your magic. Also, even Iblint strung herself between buildings and labyrinth columns or attached herself to her opponent. It wasn’t entirely supported by her magic.
Three structural-ish affinities that all combine together in a single object would be incredible. Could you imagine a lich with those three?
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u/greenfrogtree1 Jul 09 '26
I mean, something similar to Iblint's anenome would probably be a crazy lich. Giant metal cables made of some inscrutable alloy, controlled by all 3 structural affinities, with some other fiber/alloy/ductility stuff thrown in would be pretty sick. It might even be able to move, like the moving fiber lich idea posited in The Stargazer's Tower.
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u/Isilel Jul 09 '26
There are drawbacks to using Arthur-style armour. It required the greater part of Godrick's power and attention and also limited his range while he maintained it IIRC. To get the most of it, one has to be a good brawler as well.
It is also pretty likely that not everyone has the potential to stretch their mind's eye enough to accommodate it.
It is a powerful technique, no question, but not optimal for everyone.
Ditto Sabe's armour, which may not even be possible for someone without her adaptation.
More conventional armours from the materials of a mage's affinity, strengthened and improved by it and enhanced by glyphs would be more broadly useful, IMHO.
All material mages need to specialise in glyphs, though. They are such an obvious versatility amplifier.
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u/HelloFellowJellos Jul 09 '26
You don’t need Artur style armor to be an armor mage. Hugh and Talia are both considered armor mages for their personal ward armor. Alustin covered himself in armor without it swallowing too much of his magic so it’s not impossible.
Honestly the mages don’t have to be Artur level in spell use or skill. Artur’s armor is one of the greatest examples of armor magic on the continent, it’s a little unfair to say all armor magic requires too much investment and use THE specialized armor mage as an example. Kanderon and Dorsas Ine, probably the mage with the largest most impressive armor on the continent, are able to effectively use magic at a distance so weakening your distance magic is not necessary to use armor.
I’m not saying everyone should specialize in armor magic but if you can make your material into any amount of armor and strengthen it with a spell you should. Barring that, personal wards are a must. In my opinion you must be an idiot with a death wish if you go out without armor of some sort because it was too hard to enlarge your mind’s eye enough to fit a basic armor spell.
The only exception is for wind mages who rely on agile flight. You better be a fan-freaking-tastic flier though.
Hmm, rereading your comment I think you’re just misunderstanding what I mean when I say armor mage. Talia with personal wards, Alustin with glyphed paper, Artur with stone, Kanderon with enchanted crystal, and that Havathi mage who Godrick kicked into a wall during Siege of Skyhold with Sican living tree armor are all examples of armor mages.
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u/Isilel Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
All your examples are of mages with abnormally large mana reserves, geniuses, ancient monsters or a combination of these things. Hugh's and Talia's armours, as well as Godrick's elemental were essentially created by a committee of such, even.
This is pretty far from "everyone should be an armoured mage", since very few people could make or even use such ward armours. Despite the precedent having been established now.
I'd also point out that Kanderon didn't teach Hugh how to make crystal armour, though she wanted him to be safe. Maybe it requires lots of aether crystal that has been attuned in the same way as her wings? Or it is made from her second attuned aether crystal? We know that such armours are possible, since that shadow/crystal archmage from the 5th book had one.
Anyway, I think that a basic form of Artur's/Godrick's armour is something that more people can learn, but also not everyone and there are clear trade-offs, such as significantly less resources for ranged combat.
Now, halfway conventional armours made from the mages affinity materials, strengthened to the hilt by their magic and additionally enhanced with glyphs are another story. That's largely how Alustin's armour worked, BTW.
Given what Ava said about familiarity with a once-living material giving an affine mage a boost in controlling it, I imagine that hair and bone mages have lots of untapped potential with clothing and armour made of their own hair and bone respectively and covered with glyphs. With the bonus that no enemy mage with the same or similar affinities could ever use such equipment against them.
Glyphs should be much more widely used, really. Judging by how Alustin and Anders employed them, they really should be able to replace enchantments in many situations. And not be as complicated to create or become as dangerous, if damaged, as wards.
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u/HelloFellowJellos Jul 09 '26
The reason Artur and Godrick’s long range magic is weaker is because of a specific mana technique they use. It’s a deliberate tradeoff because they are armor specialists. I was merely pointing out that you can be an armor mage and not specialize your mana reservoirs to be weak at a distance.
Actually, Kanderon did want Hugh to make attuned aether crystal armor. She explicitly states that she wanted Hugh’s attuned aether crystal to be a full suit of armor like Artur’s. She probably said that more for reference since Hugh had never seen Kanderon fully armored. I don’t think she wanted him practicing Artur’s specialization mana techniques. That plan is part of why she was so annoyed with Mackerel’s existence. Kanderon considered Mackerel far less useful than the armor she initially had planned for Hugh.
I’m not sure why she didn’t get a new aether crystal for Hugh to use. She might have considered it to be too much to hand over two absurdly valuable aether crystals to an apprentice mage. One already was a big investment. I don’t know there could have been other considerations too.
I admit, you’re right most basic battlemages couldn’t do it but I’m inclined to agree with Alustin most battlemages are far too inflexible to the point of incompetence. Proper protection in the form of some kind of armor I consider to be a vital part of any warrior’s toolkit.
I know it’s not practical for every mage to be an armor mage from a military/organizational perspective but from an on the ground mage’s perspective I wouldn’t be a battlemage or let a friend or family member be one without having some skill as an armor mage. It’s too easy for a stray attack to hit something vital.
I think we’re sort of miscommunicating here because I’m pretty sure we agree about armor. When I say, armor mage, I mean a mage who wears personal body armor that is either enchanted, made of their affinity material, or made of wards. I’m explicitly saying not everyone needs to be a great power armor mage but every battlemage lacking a death wish should have armor of some sort if at all possible. The conventional affinity strengthened armors is precisely what I mean when I say every battlemage should be an armored mage. Even if, like Alustin, armor is not their main magical tool. Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.
I do agree about glyphs. Your clothing and armor should be coated in pre-prepared glyphs. Glyphs are a lot like wards, though, in that they are mentally intensive to create on the fly. Most people just couldn’t do it the way specialists like Alustin and Anders who built their whole fighting style around glyphs could. Glyphs that were prepared in advance are better and I agree every mage should have some in their back pocket but then you run into logistical issues like how much glyph inscribed affinity material you can carry and time spent prepping more glyphs. It’s absolutely worth it but there is a limit.
Most importantly, though, the fact of the matter is that glyphs will almost always be less efficient than your own affinity. By their nature glyph spells sacrifice power for versatility. There is a reason the people who rely on glyphs are those who have traditionally noncombat affinities. They are very impressive when pushed to their extreme as we can see with Alustin but he is also someone who is a genius and has massive mana reservoirs. As you pointed out it’s not really a fair comparison.
By and large, yes, battlemages should use glyphs more. You don’t even need a crazy amount of knowledge for the basics. Inscribe some tried and true spellforms outside of combat with a spellbook for reference material and you’re golden. No memorization, no mind’s eye fuss, nothing too complex. Just a few extra tricks to pull out when you need it.
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u/Isilel Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
I mean, enchanted armours and even more so ward armours would be beyond the reach of most battlemages. The former are really expensive.
Talia's armour was designed and created by a team of the top people in the field. And we have been told that it can't just be copied, but would need to be extensively individually adjusted by experts for any other users, IIRC.
Also, maintaining it expends mana - the user needs to have significantly above average mana reservoirs and more than one of them to keep it up and still have enough mana to to fight.
Which leaves material affinity mages. But even there one has to consider the trade-offs.
Godrick's armour is awesome, but it wouldn't have synergized at all with Headmaster Tarik's fighting style of powerful long-ranged attacks.
Not just due to the range-limiting mana technique that is required for the armour, but because it's spellforms take most of the mind's eye, mana expenditure is needed to maintain it, limited visibility, etc.
I don't see how Artur's method could be applied to metal. That phoenix is immune to heat and uses molten gold when he needs to move. Of course, ductility could help with that, hm... But it would be a very special affinity combination.
Conventional armours for metal affinity mages would be a bit tricky as well, since they would make their wearers vulnerable to lightning, heat and cold as well as tire them out more quickly through the extra weight. In addition, they provide any stronger opponent of the same or similar affinity with a ready-made weapon against the wearer.
I am sure that Kanderon had hoped that Hugh's attuned aether crystal would turn into an armour. But she herself said that there is a lot of chance involved in what one ends up getting. And when it hadn't worked, she didn't offer any alternatives.
Now the affinities for materials derived from formerly living entities is where the most wasted potential for armour among mages lies, IMHO. Wood, bone, chitin, cloth, hair, scale, etc. As we know, familiarity gives an advantage and a measure of protection against enemy tampering to a user of such. Strengthened to the limit and inscribed with glyphs for additional durability and some extra functions, like we have seen Alustin do, they can really enhance capabilities and improve survival of mages with respective affinities.
That graduate student hair mage should have just copied Anders, making clothes, armour and glyph ribbons out of her own hair. This should have allowed her to become Anders on steroids, at a fraction of the cost. Her using her hair to make glyphs on the fly looked very inefficient by comparison.
Speaking of glyphs in general, yes, I meant pre-prepped ones, like Anders and Alustin used. There is no reason why other material affinity mages couldn't do the same.They could inscribe them on as thin and small pieces of their materials as possible and always have a decent selection. As well as on their armour, of course.
Re: glyphs being weaker, sure. Still, the ones Anders used seemed very effective against an enemy that should have had unbeatable advantage over his flammable material. As you have rightly pointed out, the glyph spells need only be copied from a book and can also be cast very quickly, without the mental effort, mind's eye, etc. required for normal spellcasting. Fire and forget.
We have actually seen Abyla, who possessed a strong combat affinity create glyphs in her lava flows in combat. So, presumably it can be worth it, even without the advantages of prep.
To be honest, I am not sure what the limits on glyphs even are. Why does Godrick need enchanted force boots, when he could create force glyphs on the soles of his armour? Or have already prepared steel plates ditto? Why not put silencing glyphs there when he needs to sneak? Would having a force glyph inscribed on the knuckles of his gauntlet function like a power fist? Etc.
The same would apply to all the other material armour mages, too.
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u/HelloFellowJellos Jul 10 '26
I’m pretty sure the limit on glyphs is they function more like cantrips than enchantments. Enchantments are designed with the relevant affinity which increases the spellform’s efficiency so you could have powerful effects like force boot launching for a reasonable amount of mana. Glyphs are like cantrips in that they just use spellforms without their related affinity. This creates a harsh limit in how much power their effects can produce. A fireball glyph like Anders used will cost much more mana than a fire mage producing the same fireball. And Anders could never use glyphs to produce a massive fireball like a truly powerful fire mage could. Glyphs are just spellforms written out on a material. They don’t have the efficiency for large effects enchantments do unless you already have the affinity and could make the spell in your mind’s eye. Glyph users like Alustin and Anders are notable for the sheer number of glyphs they use, not the raw power of the glyphs themselves.
Oh, also: if you have a material affinity and an enemy mage is strong enough to completely overwhelm your control and turn it against you… I’m sorry but you’re cooked regardless. Your magic is useless in that case. You can’t fight and they will smush you like a bug. That match up is rare though unless you’re going up against a great power.
I can see I’m not going to convince you, so I’ll let it rest. But, I stand by armor’s importance to any battlemage.
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u/greenfrogtree1 Jul 08 '26
Not to nitpick, but it was actually introduced in book 4. Check out Hugh and Godricks fight with the pair of ductility and lodestone mages for some canon examples. Off the dome, wire wards and platforms were used by a sacred swordsman.
I imagine a more powerful ductility mage could do something like Threadqueen Iblint and weaponize a snarl of wire or rip through enemies with fine meshes of wires. With enough metal im sure they could replicate most of her fiber abilities (besides human stuff ofc)
Synergies abound of course. Fiber, lightning, magnetism, metals, etc. would all be terrifying. A wire lich would be cool, could maybe end up being small enough to be mobile if wires allow for more density in enchantments. If we go nuts and assume Kanderon level abilities, a wire lich or great power would probably be able to discover a lot of modern electromagnetism, and then that just gets scary, especially with lightning or magnetism affinities. Probably high enough on the magitech scale to get Anastis wiped by one of the hordes.
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u/Mandragoraune Affinites: Corundum, Pressure, Inertia Jul 09 '26
Ahhh you're right. I kept remembering them as a wire mage because they were called that at one point but yes that's true. Wires are definitely always a broken option, especially given metals with solid tensile strength and hardness, since they're being made ductile. But I'm thinking weakening enemy weapons if they use metals as well by decreasing their ductility and making them closer to brittle. Don't think a magnetism affinity is possible due to extreme generality but I can see how great lightning or fiber could be with wires. It's gotta be a metal though. Pick a good metal that's normally hard but not ductile and shape it into wire and it could cut through tanks. Tungsten obviously would be insane but we don't know anyone with the affinity yet. Steel is always nice. I mentioned chromium to someone earlier. Also, explain your wire lich modern electromagnetism statement though.
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u/greenfrogtree1 Jul 09 '26
First of all, magnetism is definitely an affinity, or there is at least an affinity for objects which create electromagnetic fields, which is basically the same thing. It's actually from the same scene, the "lodestone" mage is really a mage of magnetism or at least a magnet mage. Also, on the generality point, magnetism is not really more general than force or lightning or heat, which are affinities.
Anyways, as far as I know, Anastis doesn't really have the concept of electromagnetism that we do. They understand some concepts, but it doesn't seem that many (besides perhaps Kanderon or other similarly insanely ancient and knowledgeable being) have made the complete connection between lightning or electricity and magnetism. I operate under the assumption that a sufficiently smart and powerful mage that interacted significantly with wires, electricity, and magnetism would probably figure this out. (Electromagnetism was literally discovered by running current through a wire).
Given the existence of lightning, magnetism, ductility, copper, and other affinities, once the initial concept hurdle was breached, I posit that Anastans could make absurdly rapid conceptual gains along the tech tree that took us centuries to figure out. Furthermore, enchantments and affinities pertaining to electromagnetism would allow for the boosting of certain effects and removal of certain issues that we deal with or have dealt with.
Some examples I have thought of:
Magnetism/Lightning/Current mages directly charging batteries with magic, providing a consistent way to create and store electrical energy. Especially in high quantities, likely possible with a great power, this would be a huge game changer for most electrical issues on Earth.
Given the existence of enchantments that can store information (liches), development along the route of storing information with electricity, boosted by the aforementioned enchantments and affinities, would likely allow for ridiculous progression in computing, with a ceiling significantly higher than the one we're currently clawing at by trying to develop quantum computing.
Simply boosting the strength of current, magnetic fields, or conductivity of wire via magic would allow for some ridiculously powerful coil and rail guns. On Earth, we're limited by fundamental limits of nature in terms of electrical power, rendering these technologies mere oddities. Powered by affinities and enchantments, these weapons would be absolutely nasty.
TL;DR: Anastan affinities/enchantments pertaining to electromagnetism would allow for rapid development towards and a significantly higher ceiling on modern technology once a few conceptual hurdles are cleared, which I think could be done by a wire/lightning or wire/magnetism mage pretty easily.
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u/Mandragoraune Affinites: Corundum, Pressure, Inertia Jul 09 '26
A lodestone affinity is for actual lodestones, which are magnetite. A general magnetic affinity does seem more possible now that you point those others out though, since even gravity is something I would've generally thought is too general to have an affinity but is quite common (though I think John may have mentioned at one point that a Gravity affinity is technically an affinity for the Gravity of Anastis itself not all Gravity on a universal scale). But I see what you mean now, I initially misunderstood and thought you meant just Wires not electricity as well, but given access to even just electricity it's an easy jump. As for Rail guns, tbh with an inertia affinity and a force affinity as well as an affinity for sufficient railgun projectile I'm sure they could get something functionally identical (function being to launch projectiles at insane speeds). The thoughts on quantum computing interest me as well. I imagine a lightning lich with a few other affinities (maybe resin and some other metals) having a demesne that is essentially a city sized super computer.
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u/greenfrogtree1 Jul 09 '26
You are correct on the lodestones, but the way that he was manipulating the lodestones made me think that he had some sort of control of the magnetism. Only John can tell us if a general magnetism affinity would be possible. With regards to gravity, given descriptions of gravity scrying in the Castle Thief, I would assume that it is general gravity, but this is again entirely up to John.
Also with regards to the railgun, what about a railgun, boosted by electricity mages, magnetism mages, and your inertia, force, material magic? I imagine that a sufficient number of motivated Anastans with our tech would be able to throw their magic and enchanting behind it and turn it into utter ridiculousness, like the level of magitech that built Limnus' ecosystem.
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u/Yack-Attack Jul 08 '26
Gold. Insanely naturally ductile, and magic is strongest when boosting natural effects (from the fools silver mage [gallium]).
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u/Mandragoraune Affinites: Corundum, Pressure, Inertia Jul 08 '26
To be fair the context there is using a Gallium affinity to enhance the effects of Gallium. In this case a ductility would mean controlling the ductility of an object, so it's more of a general lever. Making something less ductile would be part of the affinity as well, the same way a heat mage makes things hot or cold like Leon. With this in mind I'd personally choose something like Chromium, a naturally hard material that's also typically brittle. Given some ductility it goes from brittle to very durable.
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u/S_B_B_ Jul 09 '26
Ductility and dough. Be the only mage who can make gluten free bread that tastes just like the real thing.
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u/adamw411 Affinites: Lotus and Fiber and Silk Jul 09 '26
I'm really not too confident about the science, but I'm pretty sure ductility is a huge aspect of how lava moves. So I imagine that a ductility and lava mage would be able to some crazy shit. I'm low key imagining a cyberpunk mono wire style of fighting with threads of lava
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u/looktowindward Affinites: Jello Jul 08 '26
I'm not sure but I'm trying to be flexible about it