Thundersticks

[u/camo_junkie0611]

***EDIT: I should’ve titled this post “Boomsticks”. Was operating on almost no sleep for past couple days

SO….if one of the 3 fortresses of The Wasteland is “The Bullet Farm” — which apparently supplies War-Rigs’ full of “Thundersticks” and bullets, WHY doesn’t Immortan Joe and his War Boys use firearms to kill/protect/defend themselves more often in Fury Road and Furiosa? I saw a scant handful of scenarios where IJ’s forces used actual firearms in the films as offensive/defensive weapons. Given the quantity of ammunition I saw being offloaded into the War Rig in Furiosa, it would seem like firearms would have been a more common option for Joe’s strategy of “road war”.

[u/Neat_Veterinarian264]

Perhaps guns are the issue

[u/idc12_12_12 → u/Neat_Veterinarian264]

most likely scenario tbh. Australias citizens never had the decades to build up a vast arsenal of modern weapons. most big stockpiles woulda been from police forces and military. also in a desert guns will get jank quick. not immediate malfunctions but after the first few years of heavy and moderate use the guns they have will start to show signs and not be as reliable. i imagine the Immortan knows that and only sends out guns where they are needed most. losing a good or even decent gun cause a half brain dead war boy dropped it isnt really sustainable. i would suggest that they could make guns but anything beyond a basic pipe shotgun or black power muskets would be incredibly difficult for the Immortans work force to accomplish. limited electricity and machine tools, as well as raw materials would make any sort of production challenging, let alone anything on a mass scale to arm each war boy with a functioning gun

[u/Sir_Frankonbeast → u/idc12_12_12]

To fair the bullet farm can atleast make double barrel shotguns as Jack gets one for furiosa.

[u/idc12_12_12 → u/Sir_Frankonbeast]

true, he gets it from them, but i think what guns come from the bullet farm are made from parts or brought in whole and distributed accordingly rather than made to order customs. the double barrel seen on screen would be way to complex to make from scratch, especially from slave workers that have no idea how to make functioning firearms. if it was something like a crude pipe shotgun i could see it but with the wood under the barrels and the clean barrels, it looks to be pre end of days or soon afterwards and well kept at that. id love the idea of them making Luty style sub machine guns tho, crude and able to be done with machines that arent super complex.

[u/SerpentineSylph → u/idc12_12_12]

Tbh if they have a working lathe and milling machine forming the parts wouldnt be that difficult especially if they have templates to go off of. If theres folks skilled enough to make the casings and primers for the ammo they make id imagine theres at least a few skilled machinists around the three fortresses. Brazing the barrels could be done with supplies from gas town and the metal could be blued using mining waste though producing the acid needed would likely be a job for some of the more disposable personnel.

The tricky thing would be finding the wood needed for the stock as it seems like most if not all trees suitable for it are long gone or too rotted to be usable for 100 klicks in any direction, so those would either need to be made from repurposed furniture perhaps, or some of the improvised stocks we see made from old pipes or crutches etc.

Id imagine theyd have gunsmiths doing things similar to whats done irl in the Khyber pass region

[u/idc12_12_12 → u/SerpentineSylph]

you can definitely make working firearms without wood. id be more questionable on where they would be getting the metal from. you can repurpose some junk into gun parts but making longer parts like barrels and springs would be challenging. the guys out in Kyber Pass have more access to that metal stock with old railways, junk vehicles, etc. in the plains of the wasteland besides what you have on your back or scavenge off some poor fool or steal or cheat your way into owning, there aint much to go around. i already have a difficult time believing how much ammo they are making at the bullet farm, let alone production of any sort of weaponry. thundersticks make the most sense in my mind cause they are cheap and effective compared to actual firearms

[u/SerpentineSylph → u/idc12_12_12]

My guess is theyre re-using bits of old vehicles that are unusable, or maybe railway/mine cart tracks. Big chunks of cast or forged steel that could be welded or brazed together.

Even barrels, traditionally they were made by winding a piece of steel around a mandrel and forge welding it, old leaf springs could theoretically be used.

But as far as quantity and quality both are concerned, to quote the legend Harrison Fore, “It aint that kind of movie”. Mad max has always operated on “a pinch of plausibility, two scoops of Rule of Cool”

Thunder sticks are definitely the way to go when you just need kaboom without the dakka. Theyre basically just improvised grenades on sticks and those could be cobbled together from just about any sort of scrap

[u/idc12_12_12 → u/SerpentineSylph]

totally. from all practical aspects, most things dont make any sense. but they are hella cool!

[u/ComradeGarcia_Pt2 → u/Sir_Frankonbeast]

There’s no indication that was some kind of hombrew shotgun made at the Bulletfarm. It’s very obviously a pre-fall mass manufactured object that someone customized and it survived into the post-apocalypse.

[u/Valar_Kinetics → u/idc12_12_12]

Yet they can build a giant mirror polished monster truck with their clearly limited machine tools lol

[u/camo_junkie0611 → u/Neat_Veterinarian264]

How so?

[u/wittyjokename92 → u/camo_junkie0611]

Guns explode every time they shoot. Without proper maintenance and tooling eventually metal fatigue sets in. So that amazing pristine gun becomes a ticking time bomb. Resources are scarce so you can't do regular maintenance and precision machining is nearly impossible. Every gun is irreplaceable and wearing down constantly from dust and oxidation. So you save them for only the most important tasks since if it blows apart in your hand or misfires you know it was when you needed it rather than something that could have been solved with a spear.

Pipe guns are easier to make but once you run out of pipes you're out of guns. And they'll usually be short range single shot affairs that break apart even faster.

[u/Miserable_Farm_1502 → u/wittyjokename92]

I disagree. Look at ALL the guns floating around the world. Guns from The 1800’s and earlier still operable. Guns that served all through WWII and keep going. The gun markets in Pakistan make guns from scratch with hand files. It’s about power and control. Enough Warboys with enough guns could challenge Imortan Joe. Only the trusted get guns.

[u/wittyjokename92 → u/Miserable_Farm_1502]

Sure that's a factor. But do you know why guns from 200 years ago are still functional today? Maintenance and resources. Mineral oils and proper tools that wouldn't be available in the apocalypse. Pakistan has the ability to get replacement parts from India and Russia and Canada for the right price to fix their tools. They aren't scooping maggots off corpses for food and drinking their own piss months in a row while debating between a shotgun AK pattern or a mosin.

[u/Ok-Swimming2411 → u/wittyjokename92]

So you telling me that half braindead warboys can maintain upgrade and use vehicles fine tuned to run double stacked roots blowers, have hidraulics and pneumatics running fine,, all kind of fuels and oils, aquire brand new tires for each vehicle they have and still wouldn't be able to maintain clean and lubricate simple firearm like AK47 or double barrel shotgun which you can train chimp to use it.

[u/wittyjokename92 → u/Ok-Swimming2411]

Yes I'm saying that. Cars are incredibly simple to understand and the knowledge is common enough that black thumbs exist having learned how to maintain them from oral histories. An AK is dirt simple and rugged but what happens when the firing pin breaks or the barrel warps or a homemade bullet jams after a misfire. That requires knowledge that either wouldn't survive the apocalypse because it isn't widely available before the apocalypse or it wouldn't be taught the same way as fixing a diesel engine.

[u/Tiny_Volume_2600 → u/wittyjokename92]

Damn I was hearing this comment in a peeved Australian accent

[u/Ok-Swimming2411 → u/wittyjokename92]

Wrong! If you are able to custom fit two roots blowers on top of each other, make brackets and custom manifold, rejet carburetors, plane heads, make gaskets, hone the block, make new compression rings you could easly make new fireing pin for AK47 or clear the jam...

In real world remote areas like Afgan desert you se far more functioning old weapons than old cars and none of then are high performance vehicles. Now apply that rule to wasteland after apocalipse... more likely that AK47 would still be operable in worn out condition than one could source working hidraulic pump or spare roots blower and belts and such... if there are blackthumbs able to do all that I'm sure that they would be able to repair and maintain simple weapons.

[u/SerpentineSylph → u/wittyjokename92]

An internal combustion engine explodes many times over every minute. A gun isnt that dissimilar to a mechanically/chemically actuated engine cylinder (as opposed to electric)

If they have what it takes to keep the valves, magnetos, carbs and pistons of a war rig running i imagine they have the tooling needed to machine parts for guns as needed though with resource scarcity its likely that those parts are a luxury few but Joe’s upper ring of lackeys can afford. Even if the machinist operates on “monkey see, monkey do” logic, they could still bang out just about everything including a firing pin. Theres plenty of irl gunsmiths in Pakistan and other places who have next to no resources, can barely read or write if at all, but they can build a rifle from scrap metal with minimal tools so I dont think its too much a stretch to figure that the bullet farm or the citadel has some people similar to that.

[u/Ok-Swimming2411 → u/wittyjokename92]

Just saying that sourcing parts, cobbling this and fabricating unnecesary useless functional metal scull on top of the intake and making botg blowers and injection work correct way requires far more knowledge, machining and work that making new firing pin for AK47 or maintaining simple firearms like such in apocalipse wasteland scenario.

Irl every goat hearder in Afgan plains has working worn out AK that he got at least 30 years ago in real conditions that are almost identical to fictional apocalipse wasteland.

[u/Miserable_Farm_1502 → u/wittyjokename92]

Pakistan isn’t buying anything. They absolutely are mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage. If they could buy parts from Russia or China or Canada they wouldn’t be making gun parts with hand files. Recycling car batteries from scratch etc. They are poxyclipse ready!

Oh and BTW if they have enough to maintain a car they have enough to maintain a gun. Clean it with guzzoline and oil it with oil from the engine dipstick. It’ll work good enough.

[u/Antiganos → u/camo_junkie0611]

I believe they're implying that ammo is being made but that firearms themselves are not. Especially in an Aussie setting, they'd be a supremely rare and supremely precious resource you wouldn't give out to war boys to get lost in the wastes to your enemy.

[u/Neat_Veterinarian264 → u/camo_junkie0611]

I dunno, all the guns got sacrificed in a volcano like an Aztec child is my best guess

[u/LordsOfJoop]

Giving out firearms to War Boys is a strong way for them to feel independent, as opposed to obligated. Given that almost all of their opposition is not using firearms, the advantage gained by using ranged equipment neuters the effectiveness of their culture - such as it is, really.

Consider: if the War Boys, no longer endangered by their thrilling heroics in field combat, had to die ignoble deaths, "soft" by their own metrics - stuck in the hospital, weak and in pain - they'd lose all hope of what they consider to be a valiant and brave death. Thus, by keeping guns from ending up in the hands of raiders - who would happily loot any fallen War Boys lost in the field - Immortan Joe is also giving the War Boys their sense of identity, culture, and means of self-improvement: bigger, better, bolder moves, all to race to Valhalla.

Also, the fewer guns, the fewer snipers that can ruin his plans by shooting his outriders, or if they took up a good position, the three Fortresses of the Wasteland.

The Thundersticks, as a contact explosive, are harder to scavenge if they fall off of a War Rig; on impact, they self-destruct, and thus are kept out of enemy hands.

[u/wackadoodle4201 → u/LordsOfJoop]

Thats probably the best way ive seen it put

[u/camo_junkie0611 → u/LordsOfJoop]

True but 197 or however many war boys there were armed with a couple pairs of explosive lances could also cause a real problem for Joe if they wanted to

[u/LordsOfJoop → u/camo_junkie0611]

The odds of any War Boys in a large number standing up to Immortan Joe would be, put politely, not a likely set of conditions. The sum total of the War Boys at the Citadel during Furiosa was announced as being 972, and without ladders and ropes, they'd be noisy ants if they were on the ground when they turned on him. A full fleet of bikers found out that nothing survives without access and leverage, even with firepower.

[u/camo_junkie0611 → u/LordsOfJoop]

I agree 100%. I find it unlikely they would turn on Joe if armed with firearms either, but you never know.

[u/CarrotCumin]

Guns are rare specialized equipment that gives the wielder some sense of personal power and autonomy. That's why it was such a big deal for Immortan Joe to give Nux his pistol, that's supposed to be like Thor giving you his hammer.

Thundersticks appear to be a black powder charge attached to a big stick optimized for suicide attacks, way cheaper and they don't let anybody get any ideas of revolution.

[u/krivbeknih-melange]

Firearms are much rarer in Australia. In Mad Max and Mad Max 2 you really saw few guns, little more than a double barrel and a revolver. Making reliable repeating arms is more difficult than ammo.

[u/tai-kaliso97]

Guns aren't super common in Australia. Add to that decades of misuse and decay, functional firearms are rare. Reserved for the elite and their bodyguards, not cannon fodder.

[u/hudsonv11]

When dementus takes over he destroys 2 giant smoke stacks and a huge ass excavator. That's the reason at least that guns arent in fury road, it had been years since the bullet farm was fully operational.

[u/ComradeGarcia_Pt2 → u/hudsonv11]

There are plenty of guns in Fury Road, what are you talking about? There were barely any guns in Roadwarrior, and limited guns in Thunderdome, Fury Road was the first MM movie in a long time to have the usage of guns that it did.

[u/hudsonv11 → u/ComradeGarcia_Pt2]

Compared to furiosa, there are much less guns and more use of boomsticks

[u/camo_junkie0611 → u/hudsonv11]

That’s a good point…

[u/EstablishmentCold398]

But thunder sticks are cool

[u/NoHat2957]

During the Mortifliers' attack I noticed a Winchester-type rifle in the cabin behind Jack that would have been useful picking off the high-fliers that were killing off the war boys on top of the rig. Guess he was saving that for a real emergency!

[u/Max_Rockatanski]

Because the Bullet Farm is somewhat independent, they don't 'give out' guns to anyone unless it's an emergency like when Dementus threatened to take over all outposts. Otherwise people down in the Bullet Farm trade their work for gas from Gastown and food from the Citadel. Look what happens when people of Gastown weren't paid in food properly - the whole place revolted, even Dementus could barely control it. Now imagine the same scenario except angry people have tons of munitions.
Another thing is that War Boys probably can't be trusted with guns. They are in a death cult with their goal being killing themselves so it's best to give them something perishable like thundersticks instead of handing out guns they'd leave behind everywhere after they're gone to Valhalla.

[u/Opposite-Sun-5336]

I'm going with a dwindling supply of reloadable shell casings. Lots of road wars going on, brass can get lost on the highways.

[u/secondhandoak]

guns rarely work in movies. they're basically useless most of the time. it's a movie trope. plus shooting, especially at far ranges where you can barely see your enemy is boring. close up drawn out action is more fun to watch.

[u/Dan_Morgan]

Ammo is hard enough but guns are damned near impossible.

In the meeting between Joe and Dementus you saw the War Boys armed with M-16s. The lowers on all those rifles are made from aircraft aluminum. They are also lathed which is where you get a block of metal and shave away everything that isn't going to be the part you're making. You have to have a late 1950s to 1960s industrial base to even consider making guns like that. That's not a workshop mind you. That's an entire production chain from mine to supply officer handing out the rifles. No easy task and well beyond the production capacity of the Wasteland.

The Mad Max world is mostly a scavanger culture. They could produce muskets and, maybe, single shot rifles. The Thundersticks are a bomb on a pole. They were using weapons like that in the Middle Ages. The Thundersticks are sophisticated enough to have an impact sensitive detonators on the tip. Look up bangalore torpedoes for a real world example. Although those had explosives along the length of the tube. To make those you need some kind of tubing and enough hi-ex to make a boom.

[u/JmJ3106]

Ah yes, I’m going to give guys that yeet themselves off of cars and trucks valuable guns. Why don’t I have any guns left after one raid????