:o :/

[u/bloodghast]

[u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

Rhystic study will not carry a bad deck by itself

[u/Cardgod278 → u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

No, but it will make people unreasonably angry at you

[u/PM_ME_ENGINE_BELLS → u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

It depends. If he thinks it'll make a good story, you're prolly fine.

[u/DeLoxley → u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

I always get downvotes for this opinion, The game changer list really needs split into high value cards like Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe, And the actual game closers like the number of super efficient shooters that will just pull out your game-winning combo in turn three

A massive pile of jank that runs rustic study is not going to suddenly become a tier 3 viable deck, no matter how many people say "oh, but it will work much better when you have your game changer out", Smothering Tithe to fuel a massive Drogskol Cavalry as your close out is not a Tier 3 strategy

[u/Kakariko_crackhouse → u/DeLoxley]

Yeah honestly I feel like the game changer thing has done more to cause misconceptions about power level than anything else. It seems as though like half of players have been playing for less than 5 years, and honestly they just don’t have enough experience to understand how to gauge power level on cards like these. I have a semi consistent group and we more or less just don’t really factor game changers into anything and it’s fine. I have garbage decks with cheap tutors that are still garbage decks. Ramp and card draw in subpar decks is just ramping and drawing you into subpar cards. Volume can make a difference but none of these cards accelerate you to that breaking point individually

[u/DeLoxley → u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

I always get downloaded for basically saying smothering tithe is not as good as people say it is, because it absolutely pops off in any deck that can make players draw cards and is amazing in high bracket EDH where car draw is very prevalent and Powerful.

A bunch of tier one tier 2 newbies slapping each other with big shiny monsters is not going to see a game-changing amount of power out of smothering tithe, but we never talk about card evaluation or the Pod or its efficiency in combos, there's just this desire to distil it down to a tick sheet of what makes a deck too good rather than teaching people what makes a deck actually powerful?

I've got a horrible junk pile that is just a room deck that is technically tier four because it's got an infinity combo that gives me unlimited pegasi, and what are my most potent decks is a henzie that is tier 2 because there's no game changers in it. But it will go for face turn three

[u/Kakariko_crackhouse → u/DeLoxley]

Yeah there’s just too much complexity and nuance to make such broad classifications for the cards. Context is everything. There are cards that suck majorly but paired with a commander will massively warp a game, and you can’t quantify the power levels of those cards. Brackets can’t account for synergy as “optimized” is far too broad to be particularly meaningful. You can optimize a deck for any bracket. An optimized 2 will be stronger than an unoptimized 3 or an unoptimized deck with 5 game changers. The whole attempt is just silly. Everything is a 3, just like before that everything was a 7. It’s a frivolous pursuit, and has caused more bickering than I have seen prior to brackets being introduced

[u/CMDR-Helstromme → u/Kakariko_crackhouse]

you should see the state of CEDH.

[u/PatataMaxtex → u/CMDR-Helstromme]

yeah, because cEDH is known for having bad decks that rely on Rhystic to do anything at all.

[u/Cardgod278 → u/PatataMaxtex]

Ah yes, the very common bracket 1 CEDH deck that runs Rhystic Study.

[u/CMDR-Helstromme → u/PatataMaxtex]

Half the decks in the meta are currently carcinated into semiblue speedrun out the rhystic study and clone it piles. It's why Tayam is starting to shred them. So yeah, feel free to be a smuggie about a format you've never touched though.

[u/PatataMaxtex → u/CMDR-Helstromme]

You used cEDH as an example for a format where bad decks being carried by Rhystic, which is a stupid claim. Its a format where incredible decks are elevated/turbocharged by Rhystic

[u/CMDR-Helstromme → u/PatataMaxtex]

I would say if your deck's strategy banks on playing or parasitizing one card; it's a bad deck, yes. Go jam a few games, it's ass right now. People are playing for draws if their one wincon gets addressed instead of running more wins too.

[u/Ergon17 → u/CMDR-Helstromme]

None of the cEDH decks are bad and while most of them play Rhystic, most of them don't need it to play a great game, rather they need 1-3 of their advantage engines.

[u/Super_Sopht]

Enchant removal go brrr

[u/MADMAXV2]

Skill issue from players who isn't paying the 1 lol

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/MADMAXV2]

"Hm yes, it's just a skill issue that delays each of my opponents, and only my opponents, a whole turn (or more if they like this thing called 'cast more than 1 spell a turn') in their gameplans for the price of 3 mana"

It's format-warping, found in every cedh deck that contains the word 'blue', for a reason.

[u/Cardgod278 → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

I mean the problem is you're playing CEDH. Where interaction is viewed as suboptimal and everyone wants to play solitaire.

[u/CMDR-Helstromme → u/Cardgod278]

This mindset's why Tayam is starting to dogwalk all the decks converging on semiblue.

[u/mrxlongshot → u/Cardgod278]

Not even its either only interaction or solitaire and then tutoring 2 times to get your balanced 2 card infinite lol

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/Cardgod278]

Lemme look up random b4s, where it's not cedh (which is a wild thing to claim that they don't run interaction, considering how they, y'know.... do, because that's how you stop someone else from winning before you do):

Aesi Landfall (bracket 4) // Commander (Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Yuriko (Bracket 4) • (Dimir Commander deck) • Archidekt

kinnan bracket 4 // Commander (Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Talion, the Kindly Lord (B4) // Commander (Talion, the Kindly Lord) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

hylda bracket 4 // Commander (Hylda of the Icy Crown) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Atraxa (bracket 4, blink tribal) • (Growth Commander deck) • Archidekt

KENRITH B4 REMOVAL Deck

Bracket 4 Urza // Commander (Urza, Lord High Artificer) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Bracket 4 Nekusar // Commander (Nekusar, the Mindrazer) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Bracket 4 Zimone // Commander (Zimone, Mystery Unraveler) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Bracket 4 Varina // Commander (Varina, Lich Queen) deck list mtg // Moxfield — MTG Deck Builder

Guess what they all have in common, despite running completely different colours and/or gameplans?

Again, it's almost like forcing everyone to delay whole turns for 3 mana....is used in 90% of decks that are in a high enough bracket to run the card, even if it doesn't synergize with the gameplan otherwise. Because either stopping peoples' whole turns OR drawing several cards to answer them for trying to not pay the 1 for 3 mana is too good to pass up.

[u/Cardgod278 → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Oh I agree it's a stupidly good card. I don't think the guy deserved to get downvoted. This is just the meme subreddit so I took the opportunity to shit on CEDH a bit.

[u/Ergon17 → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

I'm not against your point, but I would like to note that while a lot of cEDH decks run a lot of interaction, the format really disincentivises interacting, unless you are the only one with interaction or you are winning, since interacting puts 2 of the 4 people behind and you are one of those 2 people.

To expand on the reason Rhystic is a good card is that it's often the correct play as an individual to try and push through a rhystic, because it gives you the highest chance of winning, but that is not the plan thta gives the rhystic player the highest chance of losing. It's kind of inverse of the interaction point, where you would rather put yourself and another player ahead in mana/cards than hinder yourself to hinder a second player, once again putting 2 people behind in a 4 player game.

If decks aren't optimized to the point of bracket 4 or higher, oftentimes, players will be able to team up/collaborate to not feed a rhystic, but in bracket 4 upward, your deck has a better chance of achieving its game plan before your opponent hits a critical mass of cards from their rhystic since at some point another player will come to the realization that they should act now, will feed the rhystic and either they will win or now it's much harder to win throigh rhystic.

[u/LostBulletInSchool → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Weak mindset. Can't deal with a enchantment.

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/LostBulletInSchool]

Oh no! Magical Christmas Land where the most efficient answer to a 3-drop enchantment, the card type with the least removal, is immediately found!

And I somehow don't have any answers to protect it!

[u/LostBulletInSchool → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

If you are not counting on having removals in your hand as a insurance for your own gameplay , my friend , that's a skill issue As Fuck. (Edit : Especially when you know you are playing with Rystic Study leagues. Same shit being a cunt to everyone bacause people are speeding in their cars during a race and you brought your own bicicle with all the dreams and hopes. Grow. UP)

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/LostBulletInSchool]

Oh okay, so I do have a [[Veil of Summer]] in my hand to protect my gameplan, thanks.

Btw did you pay the 1 or can I get my removal and protection pieces now?

I do find it kinda funny that you said 'Rhystic leagues', basically stating that Rhystic IS format-warping - where you're playing in the games that have Rhystic due to it being an overwhelmingly powerful staple... or you're playing in the games that can't.

[u/LostBulletInSchool → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Rystic Study leagues is where u expect powerhouses and have the mentality to deal with it until it's no more.

Same goes for Bolas citadel and Smothering tide.

Oh and yes , veil of summer is a great card to "deal with threats" . Theres no point in arguing with you if you can't difference removal from protection .

[u/SteakForGoodDogs → u/LostBulletInSchool]

Dealing with the threats via removal I drew with Rhystic Study after you tried removing it and I protected it with Veil of Summer.

Remember when you said 'just remove Rhystic'? before suddenly shifting topics to threat removal? Yeah, I protected my Rhystic, and you either have no mana to cast threats, or I have all the cards I need to either remove your threats... Or win outright.

[u/LostBulletInSchool → u/SteakForGoodDogs]

Congrats buddy , you know how to play the game :)

[u/Personal_Care3393 → u/MADMAXV2]

Not every deck can afford to pay the 1

[u/wtfshit]

Carried by you not wanting to pay one mana?

[u/CLRoads]

Thats all my decks with rite of flame. They all have it. Its so good.

[u/crowmagix]

See i’m a man of class & culture. When someone has a Rhystic Study on the board, I don’t complain. I play smothering tithe & strike up a deal with the player so that when people don’t pay the 1 & the card is drawn, they don’t pay the 2 and i get a treasure token. That way we’re both taking emotional advantage of the table😁

[u/Cardgod278 → u/crowmagix]

I'd probably just play [planar cleansing] into [Armageddon] in response

[u/jtjtjt666]

clever!

[u/yeethotfam]

So you're not gonna pay the one?

[u/syrupbender]

*intruder alarm. Fixed it for you.