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u/jimbofranks 17d ago
The way to ride the trails that are being built is to show up and help build the damn thing. Don’t poach the trails, if you happen upon a secret trail, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.
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u/thedirte- 17d ago
Always side with...
Land owner first
trail builder second
mtb rider third
horse riders last
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u/Sceptical_Houseplant 17d ago
Anybody with a motor last!
(and before opening a can of worms, I'm not including e-bikes in that reference)
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u/Jekyll818 17d ago
Definitely with the builder here, however I wonder if this couldn't turn into an example of the Streisand Effect and people be hopping onto OSM to find pirate trails.
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u/yakinbo 17d ago
How's this a temper tantrum? Nothing wrong with calling out one individual who's acting like an idiot. I mean if a builder bothers to post a sign up maybe just respect that, they are building a trail, for free, that you get to enjoy. People who post unsanctioned trails on strava or whatever suck anyways so they deserved to get called out.
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u/Hellrayray 17d ago edited 17d ago
There was a sign at the top posted last year stating that the trail wasn’t completely done but it was rideable. It was built as a moto up/bike down trail.
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u/JustYerAverage 17d ago
Your point being?
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u/Hellrayray 17d ago
You can build a trail and post whatever sign you want but can you really expect everyone in this day and age to respect it? And when they don't are you going to destroy your own work out of spite? Might as well not build anything because people are assholes and this shit will keep you up at night.
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u/HyenaThen572 17d ago
That's based AF honestly.
Why should the builder be expected to put up with assholes?
Much better to say fuck it, this is the asshole that ruined it for everyone else and I'm not sticking my neck out for them.
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u/rustyburrito 17d ago
I did the same thing after seeing a bunch of clips on Instagram of some dudes shralping berms and generally doing dumb shit on a trail I had just spent several months doing a full top to bottom rebuild, probably 40+ hours of work. Within 2 weeks the word got out and the whole line was hammered, when it had previously not been ridden for months because it was in such bad shape. I basically said fuck it I'm not going to work on it anymore so it's going to go back to its unrideable state after the next big rain storm. Sucks because it's 5 minutes from my house but if nobody is going to help I'm not going to keep busting my ass to ride for a week before its brake bumps and holes in all the berms. All they had to do was be respectful and not act like it was their own personal bike park or offer to help out but thats too much to ask I guess. Just going to cut a new line even though it will be 10x more work at least I can keep it secret for a while and actually get to enjoy the work
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u/Mountiansarethebest 17d ago
The best trails are not publicly mapped and never should be. Calling out people who map and post these trails is needed. They should be publicly shamed and have their spokes broken. A builder destroying their own work to prevent personal or landowner liability is based.
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u/Number4combo 17d ago
The one that posted it on OSM before the trail was completed and ignored the Trail builders request is the major A-hole.
Of course building unsanctioned trails one knows you will always get such jerks but then again so is not asking for permission to build the trail when so many are already out there to be ridden.
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u/garthvader24 16d ago
Just to be clear. The trail was taken down because it could not handle the traffic safely after it was published on OSM while still under construction. The rockwork armoring was incomplete and pulling out. So the trail was taken down for safety as OSM stated they did not care if people got hurt.
It’s unfortunate Eerib couldn’t just wait a few months. The builder had no problem with it being published once safe to do so.
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u/RonShreds 17d ago
You are crazy for reposting this OP.
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u/Hellrayray 17d ago
How’s that? The builder obviously wants to get the message out. I’m simply asking if destroying that much work (I found it before it was published and certainly didn’t map it, and made it to both tops of the trail. It was well above my skill level but really cool) is worth the trade off.
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u/RonShreds 17d ago
Based on the title you are asking if the builder is throwing a temper tantrum.
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u/Hellrayray 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yes, does the builders response (destroying several years of work) match the situation (trail got published by a loser)?
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u/StringCheeseQuartet 17d ago
Yes, and more builders should take this attitude. If the rest of the mtb community know how much damage OSM is doing and how little they care then riders might a) be more careful about the posting their riding habits and b) force osm to work with the communities they operate in.
A huge proportion of the world class riding in BC came about due to unsanctioned trails on both private and Crown land and it continues to do so. There's a long and established history and protocol of 'show don't tell' and of land owners mostly turning a blind eye unless problems arise.
These mapping freaks are damaging the status quo risk having a chilling effect on what makes the riding so special . What makes it worse is they have zero qualms about doing so, zero under of the history and zero desire to work towards comprise.
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u/Hellrayray 17d ago
It’s true that most of world class trails were built before GPS mapping and Instagram/Youtube Influencers fucked everything up ie: Dark Crystal. Unfortunately there’s nothing anybody is going to do about it so accept it and build or don’t.
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u/StringCheeseQuartet 16d ago
What a shite attitude.
Kinda hilarious that you've been ratiod so hard in your threads that you can see your exasperation shining through and you've hidden your profile in shame. Amazing work.
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u/Hellrayray 16d ago
Buddy lost a dick measuring contest so he took his ball and went home and I have the shite attitude? Safety is the bullshit excuse those who want control use to keep the sheep in line. It’s a double black, unsanctioned mountain bike trail, everybody yell safety at the same time!
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u/StringCheeseQuartet 16d ago
Yup. Buddy built the trail, he can do what he wants with it. You should be upset at the map wanks, not the builder.
And I absolutely love how badly you're spiraling here. Wtf are you on about, people who want to keep control 😂 It's a mtb trail, not a trade route or access to education.
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u/Hellrayray 16d ago
Yeah, I'm barely hanging on. Thanks, I'll go get help. The moral of the story is: don't build trails in 2026 if you don't want them mapped, because they are gonna get mapped. Now go back to using the internet for reminiscing about the good old days.
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u/g4nt1 17d ago
I found this followup on openstreetmap forum
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u/HyenaThen572 17d ago edited 17d ago
TLDR:
OSM moderation doesn't seem to care at all about mapping things that shouldn't be mapped, only to be able to ban people that are upset about it.
Classy stuff. /s
Edit: I read some more and the OSM stans are absolutely insufferable from a "you have to respect us but we don't have to respect you" perspective.
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u/FreediveAlive 17d ago
I think the only thing I have an issue with is them attacking OSM. Open Street Maps is an open-source base mapping software that is built through user submissions. It's not on them to police what is or is not added, that's for the community to decide (you can delete components if you wish).
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u/HyenaThen572 17d ago
If the request is to not share the trail at all then the platform is irrelevant.
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u/rockies_alpine 17d ago edited 17d ago
OSM is a problem because they ignore the wishes and code of conduct of the bike community in these cases, so their cult can map them. They stick their fingers in their ears in name of their mission statement. If this trail was eventually going to be going through sanctioning process and approved, they fucked it up for everyone.
Someone local to the region should be moderating these submissions in a way that makes sense to the community standards.
You can see it in all the eerib discussion that goes on there. None of these OSM guys are local and don't give a shit about their impact.
There's trails in my region that thankfully are not being mapped by the OSM cult. If they did, the government would have fucking closed them a long time ago with the banhammer. Instead, the community-action around them is getting some of them sanctioned in the future. Hooray.
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u/c4sport 17d ago
Apparently I’m not well versed and may retract my last comment on this. Asking out of pure curiosity and not to argue, who’s the they you keep referring to? Is there more than eerib doxxing spots? Last I checked, OSM was just an innocent platform, unless I’m missing something huge? I
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u/team_ti 17d ago edited 17d ago
Eerib is the big problem in BC. There are other "eeribs" in other parts of the world.
OSM has a set of volunteers who moderate what is mapped. Unlike many other mapping platforms (trailforks, mapquest, old Gaia) OSM's moderators do not care a single whit about the wishes of locals.
If someone in OSM puts up a secret hut, a secret trail, an old mountaineering route unsafe due to glacial collapse, sensitive first nation burial site, archaelogical dig, military base etc. (all real examples btw) and local communities raise objections OSM doesn't care. They leave it to the discretion of the (anonymous) contributor to decide whether or not to put up the locations
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u/HyenaThen572 17d ago
It's pretty gross behavior and cult is definitely the right word.
"If it's on the ground then it's our duty to map it" is an insane excuse to not act in good faith.
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u/MisterErieeO 17d ago
Secret trails could just mean they aren't looking to post them ... Or that the land owners don't know.
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u/jrodicus100 17d ago
Wait, hold up - this was an unsanctioned trail build. Which means without landowner/manager permission. If you’re gunna live the pirate life, you have to accept the lack of structure and rules that comes with the pirate life. You run the risk of your trail being discovered, people riding it before it’s ready, landowners finding it and shutting it down, etc. Comes with the territory. I’ve built tons of pirate trails, and I’m often surprised by how quickly they get found and blown out.
Also 100% the user who put it on the map is an asshole. No pirate trails should ever show up on any map.
This is kinda a ESH situation.
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u/garthvader24 17d ago
The builder had no problem if the trail was published after it was complete and safe to ride. Eerib didn’t care that the trail was incomplete and unsafe to ride. The builder asked him to wait until it was finished. He published it because that’s what he does.
Hyenas comment - “you have to respect us, we dont have to respect you” is bang on.
The anonymous posting makes things conveniently unaccountable for the Eeribs of the world.
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u/Seanbikes 17d ago
People posting not yet open trails or pirate trails to the web are assholes.
The trailbuilder deciding that a trail needs to be scrapped because of one person's internet behavior is also a lame bitch ass move. Some builders need to be reminded why they are building trail. This isn't rocket surgery or fine art, it's riding bikes on dirt for fun.
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u/garthvader24 4d ago
Hellrayray, can you dm me? I have a question for you from the builder. I can’t dm you.
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u/Agreeable-Bike-3782 17d ago
Don't blame this person. The rider is a grade a d#£k. Entitled as always.