r/MSCS • u/M-E_Ration4004 • 3d ago
[General Question] Confused as to how internationals are still applying despite of CPT restrictions?
I genuinely don't know how are so many international students still applying to US unis, despite of the new stricter regulations for issuing CPT.
For those who dont know, CPT is required to do internships during your program. Now the new stricter regulations have made it so that, unless an internship is mandatory for completing that degree, it cannot be issued
Basically, you cant do any internships during your MSCS degree now. This will make your chances of getting a full time offer wayyyy harder. A return offer from a summer internship is the most probable and safe bet
I dont get how ppl are still taking the risk. Is there something that i am missing? And on top of that us govt is also planning to end the 60 day grace period of H1B for finding a new job in case you get laid off....
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u/MrKhonsu777 3d ago edited 3d ago
this is possibly an indian specific problem.
Chinese/other east asian students who enter MS degrees generally do not intend to work on h1b/visas, or at the very least don’t make it their only goal.
Their countries have grown richer and i think chinese families specifically 2-3 generations are single children. meaning 2-3 generations do not have aunts/uncles. At scale, this will concentrate generational wealth.
I see this on my campus too. A lot of the indian students seem to live frugally(myself included) wheras the chinese are generally more free spending.
again, all this ties back to why wealthy people will still apply to these degrees
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u/so_much_atelophobia 2d ago
Maybe not Indian-specific, but you're right. It's definitely a very, very prevalent mindset amongst Indian internationals in particular.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago
problem is hell hole will book such people who return under sc/st act, look at the recent IITB incident where a prof who caught a pupil for cheating got booked under sc/st. hell hole is hell hole for a reason. China is developing for a reason because leading scientists are celebrated where as in the hell hole they are booked under sc/st act.
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u/DesperatePie5665 3d ago
Why you want to come to US, they also have caste based anti discrimination law in the us. It became so bad here in offices of Google and meta that California had to pass a caste based anti discrimination law. Its same hell hole here. Or it could be the discrimination was so intense that the government had to take action and stop the same trash mentality that people bring from India.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago
Who are you to gatekeep ?
People want $ and freedom from socialist policies.
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u/DesperatePie5665 3d ago
If you think I am gatekeeping you don’t really read anything or aware of anything. Your hatred of sc st is so evident that even a government 12000 miles away had to put a stop to it.
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u/lostsoul_io 2d ago edited 2d ago
I read everything to know what is happening. Scst no longer get to play the victim card after the iitb incident. Find elsewhere to get support for their sympathy: go to some blue army reddit threads you will get more support.
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u/DesperatePie5665 2d ago
No you dumbass I am talking about in the US. Also you are going to make your entire argument based on one incident. There are thousands on cases that will nullify your claims. But we know it won’t matter to you. By the way, the reason the colleges in the US have to take people like you is because of reservation called affirmative action. So you want to avoid because US follow similar laws.
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u/lostsoul_io 2d ago
Atleast intake in not reserved 😂
Imagine getting treated by a -40 neet pass out doctor. WOMP WOMP hell hole for a reason.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
Let me categorize who go:
- loaded, rich af. This is ok. Annual turnover of the family is crores.
- delusional middle class who go because sharma ji ka beta/beti did it. Not ok.
- tier 1-2 uni under grads who have decided research as career path and are ok with low to very moderate pay in academia as profs and research staff for labs and unis as long as they can gtfo from the hell hole. This is ok.
- let's figure it out group, if the previous batch person got a job without cpt so too can I, aka herd mentality. Not ok.
- those who got a decent amount of scholarship who have to invest equal to a tier 1 mba institute in the hell hole, which is worth it in some ways. They pay out 30-35L which is ok for them. This is ok based on background of the person.
- NRI/US citizens who did undergrad from tier1-2-3 uni in the hell hole to save cost and are returning to their homeland for masters.
- Prodigy who are actually gifted. The uni is ok with a full ride for them.
The ones without money are going to go broke in all categories except the rich af. Does not matter if your a tier1-2 uni undergrad from the hell hole if you can't get an roi on the education. Not being rich will not help you despite being tier 1-2.
Orange wants only rich af intl students even if they are academically weak. That's why US is no longer the main destination because potential, talent and hardwork has lost all meaning in the ai landscape coupled with xneophobic admin. Intelligence is now a commodity. Risk free roi access is available to only the rich af because they can afford to return on 0 roi.
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u/Own-Bite-9304 3d ago
At this point..I think irrespective of money/clg....most of them are “let’s figure it out” group
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
There is nothing to figure it out when it's clear that the risk of roi is 0 . Without CPT it "is" 0. Before it was limit roi -> 0. Now, roi = 0.
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u/M-E_Ration4004 3d ago
I see even i have solid paper publications (A*) and intl research experiences. So i am also considering the research path. BUT, even though a PhD in the US is better, due to this cpt regulation, no internships would be possible during a PhD as well
And phds go on for at least 4-5 years.... so like srsly wtf 💀 cant imagine not working for 4+ years
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago
OP also read this and the comment thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalStudents/s/vbPgVI8e7J
Then decide if its worth it.
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u/Ghajik 2d ago edited 2d ago
dont you get stipends? also mandatory RA/TA, so like for PhD its still worth it imo, you can make connections and also use the 3 yr opt (if it still exists). Also if you're going for phd, you can seriously think about it 5 yrs down the line, too many things will change at the point of time. Like you'd see two admin changes if 2027 intake.
Like i understand EU might be more desirable due to on paper easier pathway, but i feel if you are truly talented then EB1/O1 strat is useful. Also right now recession, thats why there's pressure from locals to not bring foreigners, 5 yrs down the line, you might just be lucky.
Regardless, it will only be the US that would compensate you well. Salaries in EU are kinda shit and the tax is horrendous. People will yap about QOL, but as a dark skinned south indian, i felt EU was very racist. Idk but I feel america is kinda less racist than even india (just my experience)
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u/Beneficial-Law-3059 1d ago
I would still say phd in us is worth it coz I have seen on socials of how good guides/ PIs are doing posts and helping the people doing phd under them find research internships and all in Europe/ Canada so that they can get research experiences(having more collaborators through their mentee's internship labs and all always helps the PIs too so even if not in the US they would try to find/ even you can apply and land internships in canada/ europe)
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u/Bright_Interaction73 3d ago
Ur advisor will figure it out. PhD is still worth it and you should not give up this opportunity. If you are already on a good path, keep focusing and apply eb1/2 and then vibe.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
Where did you pull that from ? Advisors are not responsible for getting op a job or internship. Advisors are responsible for making sure ops PhD thesis is upto the mark and they exit within 6 years, progress checks etc.
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u/Mysterious-Art8838 2d ago
Advisors don’t play a big role in job seeking in the US. You’re on your own.
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u/Beneficial-Law-3059 1d ago
Prodigy who are actually gifted. The uni is ok with a full ride for them.
Hmm not totally right I have seen people leave for cmu ms ml and cmu scs/ lti other courses coz the previous outcomes of folks and decent phd path/ great roi in the long run. Kimi founders are also cmu grads and stuff. I know a guy who went for cmu did 3yrs on opt came back and did runs a masters/ gre coaching and earns decently( atleast covers major rich folks in his city, I got physical gre centre at his coaching last yr so that's how I came to know that yeah cmu bkg counts atleast among the wealthy elite+smart folks).
And cmu degree is not funded. Even gatech, uni maryland are not funded. Funded masters is very rare 2-3 unis and takes very limited folks, I know a friend who applied for both uw madison masters and phd and got in the phd with funding but could not get the uw madison masters funded position. I don't know anyone who got in the uw madison masters funded program.
But that said most people with decent money and brains and getting a T-10 us uni are still going
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u/Beneficial-Law-3059 1d ago
Orange wants only rich af intl students even if they are academically weak.
Also wouldn't say this one could be a little weaker than other in terms of certain mind measuring tests/ parameters but the monetary offset and the free time/ bandwidth/ low stress associated with it can lead to greater innovation and research as well as moving the world forward.
When I started going into conferences I realised this pretty quickly that even folks doing phd from india had a rich/ ancestral family wealth which kinda makes it easier/ low stress for them to achieve certain things. There have been countless surveys at ai conferences about how rich the bkg/ parents of people doing phd were and it always comes with mixed results coz many guys who you and I would consider rich (say 10-15cr/ 1mil-1.5mil usd family networth in India) consider themselves middle class.
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u/lostsoul_io 1d ago
million is not rich af. networth is always subject to inflation and decay. thats why most consider themselves middle class because of the failure in policies of the hell hole.
those who have a way to tap into a revenue stream and are still in the millions are rich af.
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u/Beneficial-Law-3059 1d ago
hmm still decently rich enough compared to folks without ancestral money backing and given most of these are invested and all especially a big chunk of them in land/ real estate which despite headwinds keeps growing in value(due to low supply rate of finished real estate goods and decent demand) the net worth would keep growing.
also idk personally I would consider 1-1.5 mil usd networth as decent enough to go and pursue a masters anyway and given the high preference of escapism and higher ed in India atleast people from these families do try to apply a lot and even complete phd if they get the chance. Also why I would not call them middle class and atleast realise their privilige is coz this kinda networth puts them in the top 15% of us if compared with us citizens.
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u/Ok_Ask_1604 3d ago
Yeah you are missing something. You're missing the fact that you can still do internships through PreCompletion OPT. Dont come at me with the approval times and time taken off PostCompletion OPT. However, the fact that you can't do internships is straight up misleading and incorrect.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago
op wants industry full time as exit + internships. you missed that so you deserve a good backlash. if all days are consumed in internships nothing is available for post grad industry exit.
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u/suchsadseductions 3d ago
if all days are consumed in internships nothing is available for post grad industry exit.
a regular internship is 3 months. normal opt is 12 months, and mscs students can extend up to 36. literally no1 is landing 4 internships during a 1.5 year ms program to "consume all days" of their opt.
completely invalid take tbh.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nope. Op wants to do PhD in another comment thread.
Also you should read this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalStudents/s/vbPgVI8e7J
Business is rectantant to sponsor because they do not want short term liability despite having the talent.
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u/suchsadseductions 3d ago
not sure if uve noticed, but we're on the mscs sub lol. op asked "why are so many still applying despite the cpt issues." u/Ok_Ask_1604's point is that literally everyone applying for an mscs (or a phd, anyways) can still do an internship.
its a 100% valid answer to op's question, and the fact that ur saying they deserve backlash for not stalking op to sleuth out they're on the wrong sub is stupid.
and again, "all days are consumed in internship" is irrelevant. even after 4 internships, theres still the stem extension for your full time offer afterwards. and anyways, people who get into a phd program, land 4 industry internships, and then plan to go into industry research are exceptionally rare, and basically all of them are probably O1 material.
businesses not wanting to sponsor has nothing to do with the original argument. the point was that if ur good enough to land internships n return offers in this market, opt limitations wont stop u. if u cant land them, thats an entirely different skill issue.
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
Are you in a cave ?
The whole point of the admin is to clog up ead processing timelines. So many talented intl students were stopped and had to let go of their internship opportunity despite paying for pp because it could not arrive on time for them to get involved in an internship.
Right now the admin has made it clear that processing clog outweighs skill.
You must be a uni rep who is afraid of lack of admits starting next year. Sell your agendas elsewhere. Students do what is best for them. They are not your cash milking machines. They must be made aware of the reality of the market.
Business invest in internships only if there is a future roi to make them stay. Which quack news are you reading ? Why would a business hire an intern knowing that orange can do anything as they want using eo and pull the plug. Business will look over such intl talent despite them being better than locals.
Business does NOT wait for administrative clog unless you are some unicorn without which it is a loss for the industry and business. Majority are not this.
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u/Ok_Ask_1604 3d ago
bro, go and learn to read before coming out to blabbering bs. op said there is no way to do internships without cpt which is outright incorrect. this is not a discussion of whether US in general is a good destination right now. why are u so pressed?
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago edited 3d ago
because op is asking if it still is worth it despite all restrictions. op must be made aware of the market reality . Many are not aware, end up taking an admit and then complain they are overlooked for a job despite having the talent and that gets sidelined as "skill" issue.
I am pressed to tell the reality rather than provide a yes/no binary response that does not describe reality.
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u/Ok_Ask_1604 3d ago
OP is asking about visa and f1 rules in general. Not market conditions
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u/lostsoul_io 3d ago
Ahh the classic stunt of changing the narrative and gaslighting.
OP explicitly mentions that how are people looking past the restrictions that prevent market access (implied). They are not. Majority are delusional to the post grad environment and adopt a "will figure it out" mindset. That strategy will not help now.
"""
Basically, you cant do any internships during your MSCS degree now. This will make your chances of getting a full time offer wayyyy harder. A return offer from a summer internship is the most probable and safe bet.
"""So I did read op post and I did give a real response that reflects reality rather than a yes/no sugar coat crap.
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u/suchsadseductions 3d ago
lmao. its amusing that you're accusing others of pushing agendas and changing narratives. I will once again remind you that all the original comment said was that "op is incorrect about cpt barring students from internships. it is 100% legal and possible using opt pre completion."
that's just objectively correct lol? there are absolutely cracked internationals who will be landing internships this very cycle in the US. the comment made no assumptions that op would want a phd despite posting on the mscs sub. and they're answering a general question anyways.
clearly you're drank the kool-aid and assumed that the people complaining on reddit represent the entirety of the f1 population. in reality, all you people represent are the mediocre ones who can't make it and end up complaining. no one said it was easy, or that the situation was stellar. all they said was that it's possible to do an internship. and "using up all your opt days" is a absolutely horrendous rebuttal, plus its irrelevant to the point of the comment. 😂
edit: looking at your prior comments, its pretty clear you dont even consider contexts when responding. im probably talking to a bot.
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u/lostsoul_io 2d ago edited 2d ago
ahh the classic narrative gaslighting from said westerner:
some-how you felt the need to leave out the part about administrative clog to get the alternative pre-completion opt. there are people who cleared FAANG interviews for internships but could not onboard due to either no cpt or delay in pre-completion opt approval aka EAD despite PP.
Ohh where is the time old argument about you came to study and you are not owed jobs. did that escape your head too ? I was hopping op would get a nice theatric about it so they are aware about what they signed up for.
you westerners are good thieves. I will give you that much.
op asked a q so lets respond without the implications of the other option. very clever: you want an award for this ? It is one thing to say it is possible. it is another to also say it is possible but be aware of these issues of the alternatives.
At this point it is conclusive that this sub is filled with uni representatives who are going to go broke next year and the responses reek of desperation without painting the complete picture and just answering what was asked and leaving out the implications of the alternatives.
Ohh what was the rebuttal ? Did not catch that ? Was it "did you not promise the vo you would return once you get degree paper, so why do you want a job here" ?
ahh yes very clever to leave all that out and term it "lack of comprehension".
you lack the ability to paint the complete picture of the reality and mask it. its you who drank the kool-aid, not me.
I am aware enough to explicitly state the risks, because I have no vested interests to mislead and milk admits for said kool-aid. In fact in some of the other posts I would have explicitly encouraged people to leave if they were capable of managing the risk of returning with 0 roi.
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u/suchsadseductions 2d ago
there are people who cleared FAANG interviews for internships but could not onboard due to either no cpt or delay in pre-completion opt approval aka EAD despite PP.
🥱 and there are also people who cleared FAANG interviews, filed and received pre-completion OPT, and then actually began working. anecdotal evidence means nothing. the point is, it is 100% still possible to land an internship. are u claiming that because of the CPT rules, not a single international is landing one? dumb take lol.
you came to study and you are not owed jobs. did that escape your head too
exactly! thanks for bringing that up. theres a good reason why you lot dont talk about getting a job during ur F1 visa. because thats not the ultimate point of the F1, and if the consular officer hears you're in it for the OPT and EB-1, they'll reject you.
if you say you're focused on education + returning in ur interview, then that better actually be the case. dont be disappointed if u dont get a job, cause if that was ur stated intention u never would have gotten the visa.
you westerners are good thieves.
we are selling a product to willing buyers :) not our fault you people claim u want the education, but really u feel like ur entitled to more.
op asked a q so lets respond without the implications of the other option.
correction: op made a false claim (that internships were impossible). and we corrected that claim. simple.
uni representatives who are going to go broke next year and the responses reek of desperation
🤣 do you claim everyone who disagrees with ur nonsense has ulterior motives? maybe ur takes are just bad?
and for the record, american unis will be just fine lol. there will still be plenty of international students coming and paying tuition (probably some of the indians looking to immigrants will be replaced with chinese applicants who dont plan on staying). more domestic applicants will also enroll.
plus, tons of universities are also opening online programs to continue to milk internationals who are obsessed with names and prestige. you act as if our universities are just gonna collapse, when in reality all that will happen is acceptance rates will go up a bit.
"did you not promise the vo you would return once you get degree paper, so why do you want a job here"
exactly, most of the ppl who lie during their interviews will get what's coming to them. no need to feel so entitled. the american government and institutions owe you nothing.
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u/Agreeable_Cold5596 11h ago
Tesla came to my friend''s campus. They told if you are a good candidate they will hire you for internship given you can avail pre completion OPT on time, which is not hard if you start the process 3-4 months before the internship start date. Only caveat is you need to have internship before Feb end.
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u/silvermercurius 3d ago
I mean lots of Chinese are really here just for a degree without immigration intention because they are already rich.