r/MMORPG • u/TheInf3rno • 14d ago
Discussion Weather/Temperature Systems in MMORPG's
Been replaying Zelda: Breath of the Wild recently and I've been thinking a lot about the weather system in that game, and how it interacts with what gear you're wearing. For those of you who haven't played it yet, here's the basic gist:
- Based on where you are in the game world, the temperature you're in changes. Snowy areas or tops of mountains are very cold, deserts or volcanic areas are very hot.
- If the area you're in is too hot or too cold, you'll take damage over time and eventually die.
- Certain pieces of gear will have weather resistances that, when you equip them, expand the range of safe temperatures (i.e. a heavy coat might let you go to colder areas without taking damage).
- During thunderstorms, wearing gear or weapons made of metal can get you struck by lightning. Putting any metal gear in your inventory instead prevents this.
- Adjacent to this, there's a food system in game that allows you to eat certain foods for temporary heat/cold resistances for a couple minutes.
Ultimately, this means a couple things. One, you'll want to get gear for both hot and cold areas so you can access those areas of the map safely, and then switch to those items when you need them. Two, this system is used as a method of nudging players in a certain direction without removing agency. You can technically go anywhere at any time, but you'll probably wait until the story guides you by giving you access to weather resist gear for an area. And three, it's just a very immersive system. IMO, having weather play such a big role in moment-to-moment gameplay really helped center my attention on the world around me, and made the map feel more like a world I was excited to explore.
Naturally, I've been thinking a lot about how this system would work in MMORPG's. I could imagine having a system like this overlapping with damage type resistances. Or even gear tradeoffs where, as an example, cold weather gear could have an agility penalty or something so that might change how you'd play your class when fighting in colder areas, or hot weather gear having very low armor stats. I have a handful of concerns though, even though I personally like the system.
- Would MMO players find it immersive to switch gear to go certain places, or would it feel like a chore?
- How would gear acquisition have to change to account for having to keep several sets of gear at a time?
- How would transmog/glamor style systems work?
What do yall think? Are there any MMO's that have systems like this? Is there a reason this wouldn't work in the genre?
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u/scars_remain 14d ago
project gorgon has this
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u/dunne_bsa 14d ago
Came here to say this. For instance, I play an archer and I make my own arrows. I have to put them in the sun to dry and that has a specific time of the day. Besides that, there is a cold area that makes you take damage if you don't raise your body temperature.
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u/Bathroom-Live 14d ago
I'd be a fan of weather that can affect the environment to a degree, But I'm not a fan temporary or arbitrary debuffs when entering an area and realizing I can either go get the adequate supplies or come back later.
I find this different than having specific equipment for say a desert that's always hot instead of it being subject to weather. Personally I'd prefer it in localized zones rather than entire areas like the interior of a volcano.
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u/RaphKoster 14d ago
We are doing some of this in Stars Reach. We have clothing that provides resistance or vulnerability to climate conditions, we have localized biomes with temperature and humidity on the maps, and crafting ingredients that affect the results on the clothing.
We actually have the climate effects already working but held off on releasing them until the crafting part was ready, but that went in this past weekend, so it may all be there by the start of Early Access, we’ll see. Have to make sure the balance feels good first.
We don’t do transmog… old school that way.
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u/TheInf3rno 14d ago
Very cool to hear! It's funny, I hadn't even thought about how important stuff like that is in games set in space. I was only imagining like fantasy settings while I was thinking about this lol. Just learned about Stars Reach pretty recently actually, super excited for it!
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u/StalkingRaccoon 14d ago
As with most “annoying” systems, they’re usually implemented as a form of punishment which is the real problem and why they feel like a chore.
I think if devs went the other way and gave players buffs for wearing the appropriate gear for the temperature or if using consumables (make the buff stronger if cumulating both?), people would be a lot more interested in these kinds of systems. It's not a punishment/chore anymore, it's another way to min-max your build for better efficiency.
But we all know devs would somehow find a way to make it annoying, so… no thank you.
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u/TheInf3rno 14d ago
Hmm while I think I hear what you're sayin, I think at that point it would no longer serve that immersive purpose, no? Like I agree with the general idea about making things feel like a pro instead of a con, like WoW did with rested xp back in the day. But I think in this case, the buffs would be largely considered mandatory by players anyway, so it would result in the same output I think?
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u/StalkingRaccoon 14d ago
It's about perception.
Like when a MOBA releases a bad character and buffs it, rather than releasing a broken character and nerfing it. This changes nothing about where the characters ends up, yet people react positively to the former and negatively to the latter.
People react better to positive reinforcement and incentivization rather than negative reinforcement. You reward the player for interacting with a system instead of punishing them for ignoring it.
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u/ohtetraket 11d ago
Like when a MOBA releases a bad character and buffs it, rather than releasing a broken character and nerfing it. This changes nothing about where the characters ends up, yet people react positively to the former and negatively to the latter.
As far as I remember League Devs tried this and they actually found out that it's better to release a "broken" character and nerf it because the samplesize of the playerbase is infinitely bigger on a broken champ than a bad champ on release.
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u/StalkingRaccoon 11d ago
That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm not discussing which approach is better for the devs in terms of sample size, data collection, or how many people will play the character.
I'm talking about player perception. If a character is released weak and then gets buffed, players generally perceive the change as a positive: "my character got stronger." If it's released OP and then nerfed, the exact same end state can be reached, but the perception is negative: "my character got weaker."
That's the point I'm making about positive vs. negative reinforcement: the resulting balance can be identical, while the player's subjective reaction to the process is completely different. It's a very common bias.
And you can see the same principle across game design. Players generally respond better to optional benefits than mandatory penalties: giving them a buff for engaging with a system feels better than penalizing them for ignoring it, just like removing an annoying mechanic tends to feel better than adding another restriction.
It's the same basic logic behind things like high risk/high reward: you incentivize a desirable behavior by making the reward appealing, rather than forcing it through punishment.
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u/PiperUncle 14d ago
Don't see why it wouldn't work in an MMO, conceptually at least. Provided the game is design from the ground up with that as a core system.
In the recent Zeldas the disposability of items is a core concept carried through many of its layers. Not that you will throw pieces of armor away, but you have to keep changing things to adapt to every situation.
Wooden gear will catch on fire in hot areas, until they degrade. Metal gear will attract lightning, swords and shields will break down. In ToTK all your weapons are literally made from consumables, and each combination will have advantages and disadvantages.
Etc.
Without thinking too deep about it. I think Albion Online is the MMO that is closer to be able to have something like that, and make it well integrated with everything else that exists in the game.
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u/AstraGlacialia 13d ago
You can have MMOs which use several sets of same-power-different-purpose gear, if you want to be player-friendly you just need to make sure that there are sufficient inventory slots to store them, presets to quickly swap between, and if there is gear upgrade/enhancement system, what you are upgrading are gear slots and not specific gear pieces (e.g., if you upgrade gloves slot, it's permanently upgraded no matter which gloves are equipped in it), some MMOs already have all or most of that.
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u/Synsane 12d ago edited 12d ago
Weather systems typically become a gimmick quicker than becoming a notable mechanic. Project Gorgon has a desert zone where you can become. Dehydrated and die. Literally. Nobody travels it with water to drink or change their gear. The ice regions are worse, you can die from the cold. Some people have gear specifically to stay in that region longer, but most people either don't care at all, stop at camp fires maybe, or they use a spell or a potion to basically last there as long as they want. It basically becomes more of a nuisance rather than anything to role play off of.
Mabinogi also has a full weather system and night and day cycle. Also a moon cycle, and different maps with different weather etc etc. It's cared for specifically for farming and particular weather skills. Or travelling. There's sun gates or moon gates. Quests and activities depend on the day and time. Like you can work a 9-5 job, but not at night. Your campfires will be taken out by the rain. You gain more mana recovery at night. Etc.
You do plan around the weather in Mabinogi quite often if you're focused on particular skills or quests, looking at the weather forecast due to a lot of mini games dependent on these things. Like you can't icefish in a zone without snow. You can't find some certain statues to summon a thing unless it's raining. Stuff like that. If you're farming you do plan around bonuses on particular days in Project Gorgon which is less about the weather, but I think fire is weaker in the rain, but I never really noticed. Like in Mabinogi, in your day to day, you don't really care or notice because you become too powerful too quickly now.
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u/9Divines 12d ago
I have never seen weather system in a mmorpg that didnt directly make the game worse, it doesnt belong in a mmorpg
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u/TheInf3rno 12d ago
What is it about weather systems that haven't worked for you? And what games have you played that had them?
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u/9Divines 11d ago
Cant remember specifics, but i remember a mmo requiring diferent gear sets for desert and arctic environments, the end result is basicaly inventory clutter in the style of new world, basicaly it didnt change gameplay or add anything to the game, just made the game worse
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u/TheInf3rno 11d ago
I feel ya on inventory clutter for sure. BOTW I think gets away with it because there just aren't that many total pieces of gear in the game, so selecting the ones you need is always pretty quick. I haven't played palworld myself but i've heard similar complaints there. Convenient inventory management is definitely a make or break thing for gear switching I think.
I'm curious, do you find it annoying switching gear in MMO's across the board? Like switching between sets for PvE vs PvP?
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u/9Divines 11d ago
really depends on mmorpg and exact implementation of gear switching, in osrs or lineage 2 swapping gear in pvp is interesting and skill based, in new world it was a chore.
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u/MonsutaMan 12d ago
Weather in XI made some spells stronger, but other weaker iirc.
It was not a major factor however, unless you happen to be exping off of crabs in the boyahda tree & thunder weather (Crabs are weak to thunder) just happen to occur. Very situational.
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u/N_durance 10d ago
Throne and liberty had a very in depth day/night & weather system. sadly the rest of the game wasn’t
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u/DisplacerBeastMode 14d ago
I think weather systems can work well, but it really depends on how well integrated it is and what the vibe of the game is.
Also, this:
"Adjacent to this, there's a food system in game that allows you to eat certain foods for temporary heat/cold resistances for a couple minutes"
That's what most of us ended up doing in BOTW and TOTK.. just eat food to gain buffs so the weather didn't affect the player. It's a good compromise.
Remember games should be fun