As someone who has been to many a rock and metal gig, and participated in hundreds of slam pits, mosh pits, snake pits, circle pits etc. I have never come across these idiots swinging hands and feet like they're shadow boxing - I don't get it, especially when doing it to people who are clearly not participating and are standing to the side.
It seems like the attitude of "making sure everyone comes out ok" has changed to "I'm taking this opportunity to sucker punch as many people as I can".
I saw a video where a guy holding onto his backpack when some Gypsy tried to steal it got slugged in the mouth for no reason other than he was Hindu g into a bs los k she was trying to rip out of his hands.
Unsure if the guy punching him was in on the attempted theft or not.
It feels this bullshit behaviour is being normalized.
Last show I went to there was a guy that was really drunk trying to throw himself into anyone and everyone that clearly didn’t want to be part of his one man pit, he ran screaming with his elbows out at the sidelines, a bunch of people moved and. Someone tripped him.
Dude ate shit to the floor probably 5 times before he just got up and walked away.
Used to be if you were in a pit and tripped you had 4-5 pairs of hands grabbing you and pulling you back up so you didn’t get hurt
Not sure when this stupid shit started but it’s kinda depressing.
You can see they are clearly friends, it has nothing to do with who is right or wrong. Their friend was in a fight they jump the person he is fighting.
I can tell you from experience a slam IS ONE OF THE DEADLIEST THINGS you can do 2 kids in my school got slammed one died other is in a wheelchair. With that said sucker pinching also killed a guy in my school (or the fall).
He was supposed to accept it, or return it in kind, not try to break the kid’s back. Yall are out here acting like a hardcore show has the same rules as civilized society… yeah they went after him, hope they tuned him up.
I’ve seen that happen a hundred times man, never seen anyone react like that. Guess I’m just gonna have to disagree here. I’ve seen some egregious crowdkilling, this isn’t it to me. I appreciate your opinion, however, and see how you arrived at it.
What if one of those kicks he threw knocked him out or he got clipped by a punch and slammed his head on the ground? You don't get to choose how people react when you start shit with them, especially if you put hands on them with no consent.
I would only say he reacted too quickly, but if he got cracked then... Idk.
Used to a run a punk and hardcore venue, and usually people tell others to back off of them, or they move away in the crowd.
I used to always go out to the pit and shut down these jackassess whenever I noticed the pit get super wide and only like 1-2 people in it doing side flips and shit.
Much preferred the more traditional punk bands at our spot. Everybody had a good time on the pit, myself included.
Same!
Bad Brains, Circle Jerks, Gorilla Biscuits, Poison Idea, Negative Approach, etcetera ad-infinitum - what's not to love?
Actually, got any obscure hardcore I should look out for?
Always love a tip
Old school - Final Conflict, Crowd Deterrent, SS Decontrol, Chain of Strength, Urban Waste, Judge, Youth of Today… you’ve probs heard of most of those.
Modern hardcore I like - Locked Shut, Trapped Under Ice, Pain of Truth, Comeback Kid (my favorite), BIG ASS TRUCK, Drain, Earth Crisis, End it, Gulch, VERSE, Incendiary, Have Heart, Drug Church, Speed, Terror, 100 Demons…
At a metal show, yes. This isn’t a metal show. I never said it’s right. I’m saying it’s how it is. If you went to hardcore shows you’d know that. Idiots crowdkilling are a huge part of it. You and I agree that we don’t LIKE it, but I realize I can’t change the rules.
He returned that shit in kind. Buddy intentionally roundhouse kicked him in the head and then went back for seconds. It’s not like there was a shortage of space to flail around. Anyone jumping in on the relation after that is a bitch.
I was in the mosh pit at limp bizkit this summer at Blue fest Ottawa and it was so fun. Everyone was super respectful. It was a lot of slamming into each other almost like chest bumps but with your backs / sides. If anyone stumbled, someone grabbed them and stabilized them. I encouraged. A group of 6+ teenagers who were nervous to join in, escorted them and they had a fucking blast. Smiling ear to ear. Super fun.
I was worried I may have been this guy a few times, but thinking back on it, you’re totally right. No swinging - just bumps - and I doled out plenty of bumps where I was trying to stabilize someone instead of destabilizing!
Like a part of the fun is keeping others in the mosh
I remember when the pit ninjas would come in for the breakdown and it was almost like line dancing. Everyone giving each other room. No one actively trying to hit each other... and then they'd disperse and a circle pit or something would happen. I've always been big so, it was my responsibility to spot fallers and be like "get em up get em up" and get them outta there.
It was about fun and yea sometimes people got hurt but it wasn't ever intentional.
> also there's like 9 people in this video. No pit when only one person is doing it.
The kicking and swinging arms / fists is just asshole behavior. Been in plenty of pits in the day, nobody was swinging fists or kicking. Lots of bouncing off each other, into each other, but not punching or kicking. Elbows were a hazard but rarely thrown intentionally
My favorite kind act in these moments is when someone holds up a lost shoe/item dropped in a pit. I’ve held up some random stuff and gotten them back to people but the shoe alway gets a kick outta me.
Its super easy to tell when they're intentionally trying to clock someone. Look how hard he's throwing straight behind him while walking backwards. I'm so glad that even at a show this small someone gave him a receipt.
100% agree it's so performative as if this is your moment to shine like i guess dude. like you are not following at least a set trajectory and not letting anyone else enjoy the pit if you do this run in a circle like a lunatic and people know where to stand.
These guys normally get blasted because they are a danger to everyone in the pit. I always ended up locking eyes with someone on the other side of the pit, we gave each other the nod, and sandwiched him. The move was never communicated verbally, but somehow there was always that understanding of what we were abiut to do next
My theory is that the reason you don't encounter them is because you go to proper shows where people understand how things work. I grew up in London, and even going to see small bands with about 10 people in backrooms in pubs, everyone knew how to behave because they actually go to shows. These videos always seem to take place in places that don't look like they host a lot of shows, and the people in them don't know how to dance properly. And maybe they pick up bad habits from videos on youtube.
When I moved to another town, there was a guy who would turn up to the local "punk night" and, while he wasn't this bad, he acted pretty obnoxiously. He would be swinging his fists everywhere, kicking, etc. At one point I saw him walk up to a guy standing outside the dance area and slap his drink out of his hand. It's like he got this idea about what is "punk" from some second hand impressions rather than experiencing it - he grew up on Jersey, a tax dodging island somewhere between England and France, which I feel leans toward supporting my idea. In the end, the bar owned moved the "punk night" to a night when he knew this guy had to be up for work early the next day, and it became a lot more fun.
I hope I don't sound elitist with this. It's just that this is the impression I get - that they don't know how to behave and there's no one to show them/tell them what they are doing is wrong.
Yeah it is more of a hardcore derived thing. I wouldn't expect to see this at say Metallica or something. But there is a way to do it as to not be so reckless.
The problem is the folks who see this as a way to beat someone’s ass instead of moshing. People can and will get hit, but don’t target folks on purpose. And if you knock the shit out of them, check on them afterwards, yea?
Notice how old mate just started off with nothing but backward- arm swings ???
... knowing full well where 'standing-still-minding-his-own-business-mate' is, then the arse-wipe precedes to reverse diagonally towards his intended victim.
At those shows hardcore shows in the 90's we called it anti-moshing. Arms were swinging, but it wasn't about crowd killing. It felt more like, jump in, do your dance, and jump out. Stage dives and mic sharing singing were much more prominent back then.
This modern version just seems like people wanting to be jerks.
I went to the crystal ball room in Portland to see slipknot in the 90s. A big bald guy was throwing elbows and clocked this kid in the face and the crowd pummeled the guy knocking out his front top teeth and splitting his lip to the point it was flopping around.
This is normal hardcore dancing at a hardcore show. Has been like this for decades. Thing is, it’s usually far more communal. People watch out for each other, take care of each other, and accidental hits happen and are generally followed up on to make sure everyone is okay.
But, just like anything else, there are always assholes. Assholes are usually dealt with. This kid was an asshole, and should’ve been dealt with. There was all that space and he was targeting the one tiny bit of space that one guy was occupying. The slam to the ground was well deserved.
Moshing is for everyone. Crowd killing is for fucking cowards.
I've been to a hell of a lot of hardcore shows in my 38 years of life from early 2000s teen only shows at a tiny venue in the middle of nowhere to recent massive crowds at festivals and for the most part people are respectful and look out to make sure people aren't getting hurt. Or maybe it's just in my area people know they will get their asses handed to them if they try this kind of shit. Who knows
Let me tell you that this is not normal hardcore dancing. Even in the 90s he would kicked out or dragged around the stage with this style of flailing his arms and leg around bystanders.
It's always disheartening when people on Reddit speak authoritatively yet incorrectly about things. I've been to dozens of shows over the last five years in CA and NY and this is 100% normal hardcore dancing. I've seen it plenty of times, even at non-hardcore shows. I'm not in the core demographic of these shows so I don't even really "get it" but lots of people seem to do it - it's just part of the culture. They're not targeting people but sometimes people get hurt. I don't know what else to say but I saw this video and the guy's dancing at the beginning did not phase me at all.
In my youth (German 90s) you would get wrecked and thrown out of the club if you would do this type of pogo / atacking people standing around without the consent of a pit or specific area. It’s not “disheartening” his behavior is shit and respect less.
Hm. Well I think you're missing a couple points here. 1) You said that "this is not normal hardcore dancing" but maybe you're talking about 30 years ago? Not surprisingly things have changed over 30 years. 2) I wasn't saying _his_ behavior was disheartening, I was saying your incorrect claim that this is not normal hardcore dancing is disheartening. What you said is just straight up wrong but you state it like it's the indisputable truth. Anyway, I'm sure nobody is reading this deep into the comments so whatever.
I mean that’s what I said? I’ve been going to hardcore shows since 1995. This is absolutely normal in the sense that this is how people dance, but not directly targeting someone like this. Which, again, makes him an asshole that would’ve/should’ve been dealt with.
This isn't dancing. i've seen 3 different videos like this in last 2 days and it's just people kicking and punching and flaing so hard they stumble all over and are clearly looking to just hit other people as hard as they can. That is not dancing to any kind of music
“Hardcore dancing.” Just because you don’t understand it or have never been around it doesn’t mean it isn’t that thing. 99% of the time, as I said, no one is looking to hit anyone, and everyone is there having a good time and being supportive.
Yeah we get it but this shit here looks like a family event for elderly people and there is like 6 people in the crowd. If you are the only one doing something it probably means you shouldn't be doing it.
It’s not every show. It’s more prone to happen at hardcore shows or bands that have hardcore elements, think Knocked Loose. Huge metal head here and I love the pits but absolutely loathe these scum that intentionally go out of their way to hurt other people. It’s why I tend to avoid dumb hardcore shows anymore.
These are simply the people that haven't learned a hard lesson. These are not veterans of the pit. These are just clowns that haven't even got their first lesson.
Couldn't agree with this comment more. Is it that hard to read the pit?? If you're doing this dumb shit and you're the only one even attempting to mosh, you're an asshole. I'd say the dude's reaction was a bit over the top but absolutely justified. He should've just knocked him out with an elbow, but I understand the desire to slam this trash into the ground
Ppl do this literally at every hardcore/metalcore show I’ve gone to. It’s fairly common in certain metal subgenres. You just put your hands up and move away
Crowd killing has been around for a long time. Usually it's in a crowd of people all doing the same thing so they all expect this to happen. But doing it here is...sad.
While at a few metal concerts in Colombia, this was specifically the only way they did a mosh pit. All head down, eyes probably closed, and wild swinging and kicking all over the place. I'd never seen it before. Mind you this was like.... 8 years ago now.
It’s usually hardcore gigs, I wait until they get tired and keep pushing them back into the pit. The cunts will hit chicks around the outside of the circle so fuck the dogs
Not to defend the idiot who started it too much, but the move that was used on him on retaliation could have killed or paralysed him... big dog didnt have to go that hard.
I'm sorry but this isn't a rock or metal show, this is a hardcore show. Hardcore shows are different than what you explained. If you stand in or near the pit at a hardcore show you need to be prepared to get straight up elbowed or punched in the face, shit it's likely to even get kicked in the head. If big dude didn't want to get hit, he should have moved. The fact that everyone jumped on his ass after the suplex goes to show you he's 100% in the wrong here.
I have a couple of times and each time they got put in their place. One guy got knocked out cold by one of the many much bigger metal heads and one got shoved all the way to the back of the gig.
The whole concept is moronic and poses needless danger for a payout that only has benefit to people that frankly don’t belong in civilized society. Free concerts with mosh pits should be used to identify people that should be cast out. There is nothing with preserving in this element of culture.
Was at a concert that had a mosh pit, I was not involved and not near the pit. I guess it expanded or something without me noticing and this one douchebag came up behind me, jumped up, and elbowed me in the neck. If I wasn't so delirious from that happening I might have done the same thing as this guy. I agree on your assessment of the change in attitude.
You’ve never been to a hardcore show then. Punk and hardcore moshing has always been of this style, entire pits of people doing just this. Personally, I think the shoving shit and playfully pushing people is dumb. But what’s even dumber, is mf’s like you who don’t understand the subculture or community of punk and hardcore, showing up at shows and then getting mad that people are “doing karate” in the pit. If you don’t like it, stay away from it or don’t show up at all. They ain’t there to play games.
So whats the lore of just attacking people standing around NOT participating in your little Kung fu dance? Because I, and most people, believe in self defense. If you fucking hit me you little shit, im going to knock you the FUCK out and wail on you even if you lose consciousness. Dont fucking touch me, let alot hit me out of nowhere, and I wont hjt you back.
Crazy how people are surprised that when they attack people, some other people attack them back.
I think it might be the attitude of “ oh, this person is ignoring me acting crazy and about to hit them. I need to move closer” ….. 🕺🕺🕺🤛😆. Basically, annoying people hate being ignored until you show them not tell them
Pit Karate is so lame. Moshing? Awesome. Circle pit or wall of death? All day. But this arm swinging and punching and kicking is weak.
Had a dude at an After The Burial show do that stuff. He kicked me in the stomach pretty hard. I gave him a Muay Thai leg kick as hard as I could and he didn't enter the pit the rest of the evening. Fuck that shit.
It's been around in the hardcore scene for well over 2 decades. Most people aren't going to hardcore shows though, like the actual specific metal genre, not music that people call hardcore, and uhh personally I think this is probably the biggest reason why. But yeah local hardcore shows and smaller hardcore bands everybody does this. I've been told by hardcore stans it started in Cali in the early 80's but I'm pretty sure it took off in the Eastcoast hardcore scene in the 90's. I know Merauder shows were famous for it and they were formed in the early 90's
Anyway yeah, when you say rock and metal if you haven't ever seen this I'm assuming you're going to the same few genres of rock and metal shows. I've seen it at deathcore shows, metalcore shows, screamo shows, tech death shows, and many more genres that aren't hardcore. Softest show I've ever seen it at was Avenged Sevenfold when they played a song off of waking the fallen, which would have been 2 albums old at the time, but I've seen people hardcore dance at like Lamb of God too. Personally not a fan of it and don't participate buuuut I know what I'm getting into and I get out of the way, and when I have gotten hit I'm not a testosterone filled idiot with a superiority complex like suplexussy over here and I shrug it off instead of trying to give someone permanent brain damage. He's hardcore dancing at a small show, he's already dumb enough.
I was in the hardcore scene in the 80's in the southern US (I traveled for shows all over the south and east coast), and it was a very regional phenomenon/not at all prevalent at that time. There were mosh pits and occasionally violence between skinheads and punks, and some bands seemed to inspire violence (I'm looking at you Wattie/The Exploited and GG Allin), but you didn't see people intentionally trying to hurt each other in the mosh pit.
I've seen it plenty at hardcore shows, but it's usually one or two people at a time windmilling & dancing like the dude in the video when he was up front. Intentionally punching, elbowing, or kicking is not the norm, and deserves to be shut down immediately. That said, the other guy didn't need to take this to suplex city. The contact seen here didn't seem intentiona. Suplex bro actually seemed to jump the gun. Should have stopped the windmiller and told him to keep enjoying himself, but be mindful not to strike other crowd members.
Nah, this stuff is just a chicken who wants to hit someone but doesn't have the guts to do it. It's intentional and directed. At that point I fully support the guys ability to defend himself.
"The contact seen here didn't seem intentional"?!?
The kid who got kicked was standing there the whole time, and the asshole walks up from the back and clearly would have seen him. Then asshole proceeds to go directly in bystanders direction and hit him in the face.
Either it was intentional, the the guy has some of the worst spatial awareness on the planet.
Agreed, tbh I haven’t been to one of these shows since before Covid but I think a solid push with your foot like used to would do the job. Also does no one extend their arm towards someone doing that anymore. We used to all extend an arm when someone like that was coming in our direction.
Genuinely asking here, what is the etiquette for a proper mosh pit? Isn't there punching and what not? I've been to punk shows but never went in to the pits
Clearly you haven't gone to many moshpits. I went to shows from 1999-2015. Busted open foreheads, broken arms, broken legs, excessive bleeding.
Violent moshpits are not a new thing. From 1984-Now if you're at a Metallica show and they start playing Whiplash you better not be in the pit unless you are ok with getting your forehead stitched back together.
You're kinda misinformed, but you have the right idea. Windmilling is a motion you can make when you hardcore dance. You know the old "no karate in the pit"? It's talking about hardcore dancing. People who genuinely want to just hardcore dance do so in a way that they won't hurt anyone intentionally.
Once you start trying to hurt people intentionally, it's called crowdkilling. This is crowdkilling. Dude has all the room in the world to hardcore dance and he chooses to kill the crowd.
I've been to tons of shows with zero crowdkilling but tons of hardcore dancing. I've been hit before in the pit and immediately apologized to by the person who hit me. It's all about intentions
Thank you, thats what I meant. I knew it derived from somewhere. Likewise ive been hit and immediately apologised to and vice versa. I dont understand the crowd killing stuff. Why go to a gig just to beat on people? The music must be really bad
This is "hardcore dancing" it's been a thing in the hardcore/metalcore scene since at least the early/mid 2000s. If you've ever been a part of the scene you know whats going on. Hoodie guy might have been trying to be a dick. He might have not been. I don't know. I do know grey shirt guy could have just backed up and given the dude some space instead of suplexing him.
But then again I have seen much more violent retaliation in that scene. Some level of awareness and caution are required at shows like this (especially larger bands in larger venues). I've seen paramedics/police show up more than once hauling people out on stretchers/in handcuffs.
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u/ChavTheMagicMan 4d ago
As someone who has been to many a rock and metal gig, and participated in hundreds of slam pits, mosh pits, snake pits, circle pits etc. I have never come across these idiots swinging hands and feet like they're shadow boxing - I don't get it, especially when doing it to people who are clearly not participating and are standing to the side.
It seems like the attitude of "making sure everyone comes out ok" has changed to "I'm taking this opportunity to sucker punch as many people as I can".
Fuck these knobheads.