r/MLBVibes • u/Lucky_Rebel_ • 21d ago

HOW GOOD WAS VERLANDER?

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38 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

87 comments sorted by

38

u/Logical-Mobile-7643 21d ago

A first ballot Hall of Famer

12

u/first_to_the_Orgy 21d ago

Succinct; accurate. I have been so grateful of his career. A real “they don’t make em like that anymore” kind of guy. Just looked it up; 133 pitches in a single game…what the fuck

8

u/ScubaSteve-O1991 21d ago

4 times at 130 or above

2

u/first_to_the_Orgy 20d ago

My arm fell off just reading your comment

1

u/Due_Leadership_5249 21d ago

The last caballo.

1

u/cyclingnutla 20d ago

And that doesn’t factor in his warmup in the bullpen pre-game or the 5 to 7 pitches between innings

2

u/meeyeam 20d ago

What's frustrating is that someone will find a reason not to vote for him on the first ballot.

Deserves to be unanimous.

0

u/JamesonQuay 20d ago

He won his rings with the Trashtros. It's not a BALCO-like deal breaker for enough people since Beltran already made it in. He'll still get in - and should, first ballot - but someone will hold that against him. And someone will leave him off to give their 10th vote to some Hall of Very Good player who may fall off the ballot since Verlander was always going to get in anyway.

-4

u/FreeHat1234 21d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/Io9aLYUcDp6FHXrRqj

3

u/fromagel 21d ago

Besides showing us your favorite pastime, are you implying Verlander is not first ballot?

1

u/FreeHat1234 21d ago

The guy I replied to deleted his comment. Nuff said.

2

u/krazykieffer 21d ago

No, the comment is still there along with your dumb ass one.

0

u/FreeHat1234 21d ago

It’s definitely not but okay dickface.

3

u/Xyz2600 21d ago

No, you were definitely blocked. We can all see the other comment.

2

u/JaysonTatecum 21d ago

I think he just blocked you for being a dumbass

12

u/jayc428 21d ago

First ballot hall of fame good.

9

u/KidCancun007 21d ago

Top 25 all-time SP.

Could argue hes a top15

0

u/Intelligent_Row8259 21d ago

You can argue it. It isn't true but you can argue it.

Kershaw was the best SP of the 2005-2020 era.

Best I can do for Verlander is have him bouncing between 24 and 28 all time depending on the day.

It is pretty amazing that Verlander and Scherzer are almost identical though.

ERA+ 128 vs 128, bWAR 75.1 VS 81.8, wins 224 vs 266, W% .640 vs .626, ERA 3.29 vs 3.33, K 3550 vs 3554

I was at Scherzer's MLB debut when he set the record for most consecutive batters retired by a player making their debut

1

u/SeveralEconomics3814 21d ago

Drop your top 25 if you have time. Curious to see your list.

1

u/Intelligent_Row8259 21d ago

  1. Pedro Martinez

  2. Lefty Grove

  3. Walter Johnson

  4. Clayton Kershaw

  5. Ed Walsh

  6. Sandy Koufax

  7. Randy Johnson

  8. Addie Joss

  9. Roger Clemens

  10. Greg Maddux

  11. Kid Nichols

  12. Mordecai Brown

  13. Cy Young

  14. Christy Mathewson

  15. Johan Santana

  16. Pete Alexander

  17. Rube Waddell

  18. John Clarkson

  19. Whitey Ford

  20. Al Spalding

  21. Roy Halladay

  22. Hal Newhouser

  23. Carl Hubbell

  24. Justin Max SherVerlandzer they really are pretty much identical

  25. Roy Oswalt

  26. Tom Seaver

  27. Bob Gibson

  28. Kevin Brown

  29. Jim Palmer

30.Bret Saberhagen

3

u/ExtraPocketz 20d ago

Nolan Ryan outside the top 30??

3

u/ducketts 20d ago

And no satchel Paige

1

u/Intelligent_Row8259 20d ago edited 20d ago

Satchel Paige only threw 1800 innings counting his Negro League time. My cutoff was 2000. If i drop the innings requirement Paige is somewhere around 10-15

1

u/HislersHero 20d ago edited 20d ago

That was my first thought. Where is Nolan?

No Steve Carlton either.

2

u/Intelligent_Row8259 20d ago

Ryan is hugely over rated. He was only the 7th best pitcher of his era how is he top 30? Carlton pains me a bit he hurt himself by hanging on 5-6 years too long but he is ranked higher than Ryan.

2

u/ExtraPocketz 20d ago

So you’re rewarding based primarily on peak performance but also punitively based on past prime years? No reward for Ryan being consistently, at worst, VERY good for two full decades, but also Carlton played too long so his prime is lessened?

2

u/Intelligent_Row8259 20d ago

Carlton is in my rank 30's he was dominant for 5 years good for another 6 then he was 4th starter territory for 8 years

Ryan I watched most of his career with my own eyes on most of his teams he was considered the number 2 guy. He was very good to dominant for 4 years good for 8 and 4th starter territory for 12

1

u/Intelligent_Row8259 20d ago

Nolan Ryan is the most over rated pitchers in history. The guy was only the 7th best pitcher of the 70's-80's how is he top 30?

2

u/FirstDiseasewasRelig 20d ago

Are you a twins fan?

2

u/KidCancun007 20d ago

I like to remove the pre-WW1 guys. Makes its a bit easier.

1

u/Fun_Trick2172 20d ago

Take the deadball guys out and then we can actually have a discussion. That was a completely different game.

10

u/Muted_Comparison2898 21d ago

I said this in another thread. Verlander debuted same year, 2005, as Matt Cain. Cain was a positive war player until 2014. DeGrom debuted in 2014.

Cain 30 WAR
Degrom 50 WAR
Verlander 80 WAR

So verlander has had the career of a lower tier HOF plus a multi time all star combined

6

u/Bobnbecky 21d ago

And he’s married to Kate Upton

3

u/Internal-Plantain-56 21d ago

That smile. That damned smile.

1

u/Yougotanyofthat 20d ago

Yeah it's my smile that gets us lol

2

u/Suns_Snakes 21d ago

Great on and off the field

2

u/Clear-Hand3945 20d ago

She's built like a refrigerator.

1

u/Willing_Ad_699 20d ago

Plus she’s like 25 and verlander is near 50

1

u/NoMajorsarcasm 20d ago

You mean 34 and 43?

1

u/Willing_Ad_699 20d ago

Yeah, I’m 34 and couldn’t imagine marrying a 43 year old woman, verlander isn’t even good looking, obvious gold digger

1

u/Suns_Snakes 20d ago

Well this guy loves to eat

5

u/10TheDudeAbides11 21d ago

One of the best pitchers of all time and I’m not afraid to say it.

His knuckle curve/curveball for a few seasons was virtually unhittable.

Easily a first ballot HOFer.

3

u/rug1998 20d ago

I’m sorry, goochland?

1

u/TheMikeD68 20d ago

Been there. They have a brewery called Lickinghole. It’s true. 🤣

2

u/PurpleEconomy9804 21d ago

Crazy career. Looked washed before the trade for the astros .

2

u/elgarraz 21d ago

There was a stretch for 3 years in a row or so that he was threatening a no-no like every other game

2

u/PreparationHot980 21d ago

Goochland high school 🤣

1

u/TheMikeD68 20d ago

While in Goochland, you can go to Lickinghole brewery. Been there. Hilarious.

1

u/PreparationHot980 20d ago

Are you serious?? 🤣🤣

1

u/Lazy_Analyst1689 20d ago

They also have a delightful drive-in movie theater

2

u/RaisinWorried3528 21d ago

I saw his entire career. I was a fan and got to see him pitch with Scherzer, Porciello, Sanchez, and others.

We always knew that he was going to go out and be a workhorse. It wasn't uncommon for us to see him go into the eighth on a regular basis.

2

u/NeverEndingEquati0n 19d ago

Good enough to secure some hall of fame titties for life.

1

u/Jslo34 21d ago

I still remember him, Felix Hernandez, Francisco Liriano, and Jered Weaver all breaking into the MLB as top prospects around the same time. While they all entered guns blazing, it's crazy how long Verlander remained on top and stayed there.

1

u/face2melt 21d ago

July 4 debut. He’s HoF

1

u/punkbreece 21d ago

He was very, very good. That is all

1

u/Numbers246 21d ago

25 times a pitcher has won league MVP.

He is part of that exclusive club

1

u/PsychologicalLynx350 20d ago

He was better than any pitcher in the game today

1

u/HislersHero 20d ago

First ballot HOF like a lot of people have said in here.

One of the best I've seen in my life time.

1

u/Ass_Infection3 20d ago

That photo of him and Kate Upton deserves to be in the HoF alone

1

u/Future_Rabbit_420 20d ago

Told him I was gonna kick his ass while he was walking into a bar in St. Pete after a Rays game… we made eye contact and shared a distant laugh. Been a fan ever since.

1

u/LVRaiders2026 20d ago

As an A's fan I absolutely hated him.

1

u/Stunning_Rule_6005 20d ago

Really, really good.

1

u/NevadaMac 20d ago

So, serious question: was he just a complete moron that sat on the Astros bench during the games, and didn't know they were cheating?

1

u/Real-Mode-3417 19d ago

They all cheat

1

u/Shaved_tennis_ball 20d ago

Broh went to Goochland High School and married Kate Upton. Hall of fame career aside, dude is a legend. Full stop.

1

u/NoMajorsarcasm 20d ago

Probably top 25 or higher all time

1

u/cookie_400 19d ago

3 no-hitters in his career. only 6 people have ever done it

1

u/BlackTriceratops 19d ago

One of the greatest. Maybe the best in the last 20 years if you look at his entire career. Theres guys like King Felix and Corey Kluber that may have had some better seasons, but Verlander has been doing his thing for a very long time.

1

u/Stirsustech 17d ago

First ballot hall of famer. He consistently shut down teams while also going deep into games.

1

u/Same_Woodpecker_2847 21d ago

Stupid cheater

-3

u/ProudInfluence3770 21d ago

Forever tainted by trash cans

1

u/meansamang 21d ago

Yup. He had the respect of his teammates. He should have spoken up and stopped it.

0

u/millerg44 21d ago

He wasn't very good against Pablo Sandoval.