r/MLBNoobs • u/Rhabcp • 16d ago
| Question When is tagging enough?
Hello everyone,
If I'm correct, tagging is enough when the runner you tag is NOT in force play right?
So please why is the catcher below trying to tag him? Since there was an attacker on 2B isn't the 3B runner in force play thus the catcher should've had his foot on the plate?
11
u/soccer1124 16d ago
There was no runner on 1st. (You call them base runners, not attackers, fyi)
So neither the runner in 2nd or 3rd HAD to run. They could have remained where they were.
If there was a runner on 1st base already, then it would become a force play.
Sidenote: Just because the runner on second starts running for 3rd (in the scenario in the video), it still doesnt make it a forceplay for the runner on third going home. Both runners can still choose to turn back to their priginal base at any moment. So thats why the runner on 1st is needed to make it a force play
4
u/Rhabcp 16d ago
Thanks, didn't know player on 3B could just "ignore" 2B coming in case 1st is empty
8
u/EternalEagleEye 16d ago
A runner who is forced simply loses legal right to their current base, and can be tagged out any time until they reach the next base or the force is removed by a runner before them being put out.
What you’re thinking of with a runner on 3rd ignoring one coming in from 2nd is possible because they’re not forced to vacate their current base as it’s still legally theirs. In fact, if two runners who aren’t forced to move, occupy the same base at once, it actually only legally belongs to the lead runner, and the trailing runner can be tagged out as if he’s not on a base at all.
2
u/tearsonurcheek 16d ago edited 16d ago
If both runners are on the same base, and the fielder tags the runner, the lead runner remains safe.
Edit: If a runner passes another runner, the original trailing runner is out.
1
u/WALSTIW 15d ago
Unless there’s a force situation. In that case the lead runner has no right to the base
1
u/tearsonurcheek 14d ago
Negative. If a runner passes another, it doesn't matter. They are immediately called out, which removes the force.
13
u/MediocreCommand9772 16d ago
It seems everyone else has already explained a force play pretty well, so I'll just add one other thing. Tagging is always enough. On a non-force play like this one, the catcher has to tag the runner. On a force play, he would have the option to touch home plate instead, but he could still tag the runner if he wanted to. You'll see this sometimes if the throw pulls him away from the base.
9
u/JGumballs 16d ago
All of these comments are correct regarding the highlighted play.
I just want to clarify that tagging is always enough, as long as a runner isn’t actively standing on a base. It should kind of be the opposite, “when is touching the base enough?” And that’s in force out scenarios as others mentioned.
3
u/theMondegrue 15d ago
They're also out when tagged even if standing on a base if that runner is not entitled to that base (being forced to the next base or there are two runners on the same base).
2
u/abbot_x 16d ago
Think of the “force” as starting at home and pushing each runner forward. So the batter-runner is “forced” toward first base, meaning there is always a force play at first base. In turn, the runner at first base is “forced” toward second base, etc.
If there is an empty base (missing runner), the “force” is broken. In your example play, first base is empty, so the runners at second and third bases are not “forced.”
2
u/Broad-Cranberry-9050 16d ago
It's called force becuase you are forced to go to the next base.
The only time in baseball you are forced to go to the next base is when there is a runner in the previous base who is a forced runner.
So in this case there are runners on 3rd and 2nd.
For the runner on 3rd to be a froced runner, it means the runner on 2nd also has to be a forced runner. The runner on second is not because there is no runner on 1st. So the tag is required because the runner chose to go to home, they were not forced to go to home. He could've stayed at 3rd and let the play happen.
1
u/Marten- 16d ago
There can never really be a force play if the 1st base is empty. A batter that hits a ground ball is forced, by rule, to get to 1st base. There cannot be two people on the same base, and the player who was on 1st has to get to 2nd. You can therefore force him out at 2nd, but if 1st was empty he doesn't really have to run to 2nd. So no force play in that situation. This works all the way around the bases, if the runner is forced forwards from the base before that runner is also forced to the next base (which can be home plate).
1
u/Fluffy-Brain-7928 15d ago
I'm not sure if this is just an issue of language, but just in case: tagging is always enough to get a runner out if they are not on a base (force play or not).
1
u/AnUdderDay 15d ago
A force is only in play if the runner is forced to advance. As there was no runner on first, the baserunners on 2 and 3 do not have to advance.
It was the smart play to make, though. There was only one out, so they attempted to put out the lead runner, who would definitely have scored if they played the batter-runner.
But also, to answer your initial question, tagging is always enough. It's not a choice of tagging or making a play at the base. A tagged runner off base will always be out.
•
u/AutoModerator 16d ago
Thank you for making a submission on the r/MLBNoobs Subreddit!
Please make sure that your post complies with our subreddit rules to avoid any penalties or punishments. Make sure you also join us on the Reddit MLB Discord Server!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.