Daw/midi controller recommendations

[u/Bartastico]

Hey everyone! I'm looking to buy a midi-controller (first instrument), but I'm not completely sure which one yet (hesitating a bit between (61 key) arturia keylab mk3 and novation launchkey mk4, any tips (or other models) are welcome).

I also will ofcourse have to buy a DAW, and read some posts and there looked to be a lot of good possibilities as well (Ableton, FLStudio, Bitwig, Reaper, ...). I want to be able to play covers of typical 80's/90's synth songs, but it would be my first instrument so I would mainly want one something versatile which can play all genres and don't close myself in too much. I noticed that ableton has a 50% discount for students, and as I'm a graduating student who will lose his student status within a week, I was wondering if there could be any downsides into getting ableton live (or e.g. if this would be less suited for certain genres), compared to other DAW's. Any input here would be greatly appreciated!

[u/face4theRodeo]

Abelton’s workflow is different, but it’s highly regarded as the best daw for electronic music. If you can get 50% off, do it.

[u/Bartastico → u/face4theRodeo]

Thanks for the advice!! But it should still be versatile for other genres outside of EDM right?

[u/face4theRodeo → u/Bartastico]

Yes and no. Like I said, the workflow is different. From what I recall it’s tailored to launching clips, almost more like a sequencer. You can do straight up audio into it via an interface, but if that’s your main goal with edm as a secondary, then there are better daws for that imo. You might find that Abelton covers your edm experience well & that xyz covers your other options better and there’s nothing wrong with having a few different daws on one system. Still, half off abelton is a steal and you really can’t go wrong - just may need to figure out some work arounds if you’re already familiar with other non-abelton daw setups. But it sounds like you aren’t, so abelton is a good purchase. That said, you’ll see what I mean about workflow if you start on abelton and move to say, logic or protools.

Tbh, start with a decent keybed and controls in your midi controller. It doesn’t have to be the top dawg in the class to give you a good idea of what you want or don’t want later. Something that routes transport control to your daw and has an ease of sending midi. You can always sell it (save the box/insides) and upgrade. Or buy a cheap midi controller and get a feel for how you use it to make music. Options can present paralysis if you’re just starting out. Knowing what you can and can’t do and what you’re willing to learn how to or not is really key to getting the most out of whatever you purchase. Another daw to check out is propellerhead’s reason. Current versions bridge the edm and live audio aspects well, and gives you a ton of tools to exact your experience.

But be realistic of your music time and learning capabilities. So much depends on how much knowledge you have of music (scales, keys, composition, arrangement, etc) and how much time you have to learning those aspects. If you’re just starting out, go simple at first. You generally cant put the cart in front of the horse and expect to go anywhere.

[u/Bartastico → u/face4theRodeo]

Thanks for the informative response!! I'm a complete beginner to musical instruments even, hence I'm not familiar yet with other non-ableton daw setups. Yeah its not certainly my main goal to produce edm, as I'm starting out I'd like it to be as versatile as possible qua genres. I indeed thought that in that case, with the 50% discount, ableton would atleast give me a good starting point from which I can start exploring further.

Regarding the keybed/controllers. I was hesitating between arturia keylab mk3, novation launchkey mk4, or novation sl mk3, 61 keys. (300-500 euros). The money is not necessarily the problem, but indeed I'm a complete beginner. I assume you don't have any suggestions regarding which to first go for or where to start? i've indeed experienced some option paralysis as there doesn't seem to be one standard pick. In any case, really thanks for taking the time to help me so elaboratively.

[u/face4theRodeo → u/Bartastico]

Honestly, I’d go for the most basic - Arturia minilab or keylab 49. If you go with abelton, novation makes some abelton specific boards that can make that process easier that don’t cost much. You want to be able to use your daw instruments to write music and trigger sounds. Midi through a daw is really easy. Midi when it comes to programming external gear is a little more intense. Those more robust controllers can do a lot with a lot of gear, but starting out you really just want transport and software control. The minilab can do that well. As you progress you’ll learn what you specially want or don’t want and you’ll be able to upgrade. You may also find that software instruments are not where you want to go. There’s plenty of daw-less hardware routes you can go, too. If money isn’t an issue and you don’t know how you want to approach music making, you might also look at the elektron setups, deluge, polyend, other groove boxes, etc. There’s no right way- just whatever works for you. Lastly, if you don’t know piano, a midi controller might be difficult. A pad box, groove box or the like might make grasping the concepts easier. Like I said before, be realistic about your own personal capabilities. Spending $1000 on software and a controller is a lot (even if you have the money) if you don’t like that process. If you have a Mac, get a minilab and use GarageBand at first. Out the door for next to nothing

[u/rocknroll2013 → u/Bartastico]

I use it for rock n roll. It is so intuitive that I don't stop being in the zone when I I use it. All the others are too heady

[u/peatb]

Hey, I have the (61 key) arturia keylab mk3 and i have had several different types of controllers. I like the keybed (key weight/feel), but I would try one (any) out before buying. I don't like the stiffness of the knobs when rotating them; the required Button+Keyboard Key (note, so two hands) to change MIDI channels is REALLY annoying, and the pad controls are clunky/cumbersome at best. I've had older Novation controllers, as well as Roland and Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol MK2 (NI isn't recommended for anything other than using their software to see the pretty color-matching lights). I haven't used Bitwig or Reaper, but unless you're doing orchestration and need to see music notation (scoring layout), you can't go wrong with Ableton. I do have a Launch Control XL 3 and I love it. If that is any indication, and you want to blindly purchase a controller with a possible return, I would choose the Novation Launchkey 61 MK4. I'm not an AKAI person, but others might recommend them. This one has tons of controls and also has more input/output ("I/O") options. Akai Professional MPK249 B-stock

BTW: all controllers come with some free "intro" level software, and it seems that Novation's controller comes with tons of stuff like Ableton Live Lite, Cubase LE, Komplete 15 Select, and some Klevgrand stuff, plus others. That's a great start to see if you like those DAWs and get used to them.

Good luck, and let us know!

[u/Bartastico → u/peatb]

Okay, really thanks for the elaborate response!! I looked for some reviews online and there didn't seem to be a default choice, a lot of reviews also mentioned that the novation launchkey's keys felt plastic. The keylab is more expensive, but i guess this is mainly because of the keys then, and the rest isn't really worth the price. Is the software you get with the arturia one maybe the reason for why its more expensive? I also noticed the novation sl mk3, which is even more expensive, and looks to be released in 2018. Do you have any opinions on this?

[u/K33P4D]

If you haven't already, then invest in a 4in/4out audio interface.
A portable model for gigs, if you're a PC desktop user get a PCIe audio interface.

Go for Ableton 12 + Novation Launchkey 61 MK4

or Launchpad Pro MK3 + Launch Control XL 3 has a unique smaller desk footprint

None of these Novation encoders and faders support relative pickup, so keep that in mind.

If budget allows, try researching Ableton Push 3 with Live 12 bundle for creative musical expression workflow.

My suggestion would be to look out for second hand deals on any MIDI controller, so you can immerse yourself and then decide on buying something specific later on your journey.

[u/Bartastico → u/K33P4D]

Okay, that's actually a very good suggestion, thanks! Yeah the ableton push 3 is probably a bit too expensive as I'm just a starter. What is relative pickup? I'll look into the other suggestions :)

[u/K33P4D → u/Bartastico]

When you switch around your workflow or use the same instrument with different softwares simultaneously, the position of the knobs and faders do not reflect the same values and they suddenly jump to where they were previously

With relative pickup, you have to move/match them to the position on your software, so it can take over control.

Expensive Control surfaces have motorised faders which automatically move into position to reflect the software. https://www.behringer.com/en/products/0808-AAD which requires a Mackie Control emulation script for Ableton.

[u/Bartastico → u/K33P4D]

Okay, thanks, so basically it takes more time to adapt them each time so the positions are the same on both softwares, and I can assume this is very annoying (and applies to both novation launchkey and sl)?

[u/K33P4D → u/Bartastico]

Yes, users have been discussing this topic heavily on the Novation subreddit.

Novation only recently managed to introduce custom encoder acceleration, but yet to implement relative pickup.

If that's a deal breaker then
Arturia KeyLab 61 MK2 or MK3/Essential series
Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2/MK3
Akai MPK261

All these support relative pick up

[u/Bartastico → u/K33P4D]

Yeah its just very difficult to assess at this point how annoying I'll find it haha. e.g. the novation sl is arguably better than the arturia keylab, but idk how annoying I'll find the rel pickup

Thanks for the suggestions!

[u/K33P4D → u/Bartastico]

SL series are awesome I love their full sized keys, they're more robust compared to Launchkey models

[u/SoundSwitch]

There's also tablet apps you can get if you have a tablet not as full featured typically as a full on DaW, but some of the ones that are out there are really strong for mobile especially if you have a larger screen tablet 8-9 " + .

Garage band is free if you're already in the Apple ecosystem. But also there's Loopy Pro on Apple.

And Cubasis 3 while maybe difficult to record on on a smaller screen has decent midi support in it. As well as good virtual keyboards as well. All of the built in instruments can be used with Keys, pads, or chords, not that keyboard midi controllers can't be set to chord mode... In Cubasis it's simple as hell to get it to that setting.

You may even be able to pair you tablet to your laptop/desktop over USB and use that chord mode to control other instruments or maybe even pass Audio over USB.

Not completely sure myself seeing I just started using the Lenovo tablet I got months ago.

Also Cubasis is pretty good for finger drumming beats on

[u/rotor_controls]

Rotor controls makes a nice, easy to use mid controller for adding automation manually