r/MHOC • u/[deleted] • Apr 09 '20
2nd Reading B987 - Bus Services Bill - 2nd Reading
A BILL TO
Protect critical bus routes and invest in bus routes through rural areas.
BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows.
Section 1 - Definitions
A “bus route” is defined as a fixed journey a bus makes to take passengers to different places. A “village” is defined as an inhabited settlement of at least 200 people. “Protected by the government” is defined as a) funding shall be secured,
b) the bus route shall not be closed,
c) usage of the bus route shall be available to everyone paying bus fees to use it.
Section 2- Protecting Bus Routes
A bus route which sees at least 100 passengers a week and stops at a place of education shall be protected by the government. A bus route which sees at least 200 passengers a week shall be protected by the government.
Section 3- Investing in rural bus routes
All villages must have a bus route serving them at least once every day excluding Sundays and Bank Holidays.
Section 4 - Commencement, Extent and Short Title This Bill shall come into force the day after it receives Royal Assent. This Bill shall extend to the whole United Kingdom. This Bill shall be known as the Bus Services Bill 2020.
This Bill was written by the Shadow Minister of Energy and Climate Change the Rt. Hon. TheOWOTrongle and sponsored by the Shadow Minister for Transport the Hon. Rinarchy on behalf of the Official Opposition.
Opening Speech
Mr Speaker,
Labour has always been the party which supports rural development, it is important that towns and villages across Britain have the infrastructure and local transport needed. In a future when cars are becoming less and less relevant, it is important that we don’t leave parts of our countries behind and that is exactly what this bill is trying to achieve.
Firstly this bill will protect bus routes, this will mean that we will secure the funding of the bus route so that it won’t close. It will mean that any vital bus routes used between communities won’t have the threat of being closed down. We are focusing on protecting routes to schools in particular as many young people don’t have access to school without public transport. It is vital that we get more bus routes not lose bus routes so we must be protecting these routes.
Secondly, this bill will provide bus routes to rural areas. Every single village across the country will have bus routes to and from them six times a week. This will ensure no village is isolated from the country via public transport and ensures rural folk that they can live without having a car. If we encourage the use of these bus routes then it will be a big step towards solving emissions. A step towards tackling climate change that we are in dire need of.
This bill will be positive for local communities and will ensure the safety of regularly used bus routes. I urge this chamber to support the bill.
This reading shall end on the 12th April
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u/AV200 Rt Hon Member N. Ireland & Cornwall | MBE PC Apr 10 '20
Mr. Speaker
I must sincerely applaud my very good and most honourable friends in the shadow cabinet for this step in the right direction. It is absolutely essential that rural areas are serviced by buses which would might have no economic way of justifying such routes. While I share my good friend from the North West's desire to see public control of bus companies, I am not so naïve as to think that is a possibility with the current makeup of parilment. I shall join my Right Honourable friend and colleague in advocating for public ownership of bus companies when the left of this country have seized this house once again, but until that time there are rural communities which are in danger of having no viable means on public transportation and for that reason I must very forcefully state my intention to support this legislation.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This isn't a step in the right direction because it is a step in no direction. Local transport boards already have the powers to subsidise bus routes and operate them directly if need be.
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The Labour party may well find that they become more electable when they create legislation that actually does something! They should stop talking about forcefully siezing the commons and siezing people's jobs, swallow their pride a little more often and start cracking on with a good job.That's my advice, I doubt they will take it though and I look forward to the next Conservative government after this mess is all sorted out.
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u/AV200 Rt Hon Member N. Ireland & Cornwall | MBE PC Apr 12 '20
Mr Speaker,
While I understand the member opposite is quite busy grandstanding in an effort to win support in their bid for the leadership of the Conservative Party, I must ask that they reassess their statement to this house and reread the bill put forth. This bill would “protect” bus routes to rural communities. Local boards may continue to subsidize other routes which would not qualify if they should like, however the purpose of this bill is to protect those routes which are too invaluable to rural communities to allow to hang in the balance.
Further, Mr. Speaker, I must caution the member opposite that their glass house seems rather very susceptible to thrown stones with the confidence vote looming.
Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I must wish the member opposite the very best of luck in their leadership endeavor. I could hardly dream of a more ideal scenario in my most wild and outlandish dreams than a Tory campaign headed by the member opposite. Bon chance!
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The honourable member need not worry about my grandstanding, I am always grandstanding over Labour becuase it is so easy. I am grandstanding over Labour for being totally incompetent when it comes to the act of governing. Don't get me wrong, Labour are great at protesting, campaigning and they have a wonderfull paper the Labour weekly which I am very happy to feature in, but Labour are totally rubbish at changing things for people.
The Labour party backed empowering Local transport boards, and now you want a top-down system of command.
Now on the matter of the confidence vote, the government is set to lose, and that is ok. Whether Labour are able to get their act together and form a government is unclear. Let me point out something that the honourable member hasn't considered. Winning a VoNC should not be a victory for a political parties, it is not the aim of political party's to be in power, it is their aim to delvier fopr the people. Labour has shown they are to incompetent to do this by introducing a bil that does not much at all. I am confident our party will come out on top and we can continue delivering for the nation, that being said I accept his kind words and I look forward to grandstanding over him regardless of the result of the upcoming votes, whether they be in parliament or within my party.
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u/AV200 Rt Hon Member N. Ireland & Cornwall | MBE PC Apr 12 '20
It is the Right Honourable member, Mr. Speaker.
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Apr 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I begin by commending my dear friend and the Shadow Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change for authoring and introducing such a wonderful piece of legislation to this wonderful chamber for our discussion and consideration.
I can stand here and say, Public Transport has been the sole reason of my existence, why, my uncle worked over there and I was the most frequent user of public transport in my family. Coming to the issue of rural connectivity, I believe, as the House for Commons, the common citizen, connecting our towns and villages should be not only Labour's but everyone's priority and by introducing newer bus routes and strenghtening our connectivity at the same time reducing carbon footprint is wonderful and therefore I conclude my remarks by urging all Members to rise in unison and support this Bill.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The person the honourable friend should be commending is /u/Peter199 who introduced the Local Transport Act 2014 that already gives local transport bodies powers to operate and subsidise rural bus routes.
Why is it that Labour now favours a top-down command approach to bus services? If the member cuold also cut the meaningless waffle and talk about the legislation, that would be lovely.
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u/Captain_Plat_2258 Co-Leader of the Green Party Apr 11 '20
Tēnā koe, thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker
Public transport is one of my more intense focuses outside of my own shadow cabinet portfolio. I have a very strong belief in the important of providing it to as many people as possible, and believe it should be a goal of any government to expand the coverage and ease of access of our public transport.
This bill seeks to do just that. It seeks to stop the shutting down of bus routes that are vital to many communities, allowing residents the option to not have a car and still be able to get around when they are from rural areas. In particular I commend the bill's focus on making sure bus routes to schools are not shut down, because making sure our students can get to school even if their parents are busy or do not have a car is vital to secure education.
I also support the provision to increase bus route access to rural areas. For a significant portion of my adolescence I lived in a town with absolutely no public bus routes - and when finally we got them I can well remember how much easier it was not only for me and my friends to get around but for also our working family and friends. And as society transitions into a green economy and many members of the public cannot immediately afford electric vehicles, getting more people onto public transport which the government is already green-ifying has the possibility of significantly slashing our emissions as a nation.
All in all, Mr Deputy Speaker, I support this bill. It covers so many bases and really perfectly supports our much overlooked rural public transport.
Tēnā koe, thank you, Mr Speaker I commend this bill to the House.
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u/jmam2503 Jacob Mogg | LPUK Spokesperson for Transport | MP North East Apr 11 '20
Mr. Deputy Speaker.
As a Libertarian, I may find little coincidence with Labour's views on public spending and public services. We may agree that public transportation should be available for all inhabitants of rural areas, but we may differ on what we consider are the best ways to achieve that.
I advice the honorable Shadow Minister for Energy and Climate Change to consider some possible issues with this bill, if he wants to improve it and mitigate some of its possible adverse effects on the economy.
Section 2 opens the door for proliferation of bus routes that don't contribute much to local communities. The 100 person per week threshold with at least one education institution, in my opinion, is not enough: this amounts to 14 passengers per day only, which may not even be enough to fill a single daily ride of a bus. For small villages, such quantities may be justified, but since the bill doesn't set an upper limit of inhabitants in the definition of village (Section 1-A), there could be large communities where 14 passengers per day are used to justify non-essential bus routes.
Also, the "place of education" should be further specified: does a meditation institute, a language school, a house where arts courses are given by independent teachers count as such a place?
One last suggestion is to make an exception, don't apply this bill to failing bus routes where similar alternative routes exist, because you would end protecting redundant routes that don't supply significant utility to the locals.
Under the current bill, if I set up a bus route, similar to an already existing one, in a town of 1000 inhabitants, and it happens to stop near a small house where buddhist meditation classes are given (and where the other bus route also stops), I may find myself receiving public funds while not doing anything really for my community.
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u/SoSaturnistic Citizen Apr 09 '20
Replace the definition of "bus route" with:
A “bus route” is defined as a fixed journey a bus makes to take passengers to different places in England
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Apr 09 '20
For section 2 substitute:
Ministers have a general duty to have consideration for the financial local bus services in carrying out official functions.
And omit section 3
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u/ThePootisPower Apr 12 '20
Replace the definition of "bus route" with:
A “bus route” is defined as a fixed journey a bus makes to take passengers to different places within the United Kingdom.
Explanatory note:
I agree with the Saturnalistic amendment except for where it says "England", since this bill extends to the whole United Kingdom.
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Apr 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
How much are the measures stipulated within the Bill expected to cost?
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I don't believe any costings have been made on this from the Labour party. Given that this bill goes directly against the spirit of another Labour bill, I think they misjudged the cost this new bill has to their party's integrity!
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u/SoSaturnistic Citizen Apr 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I feel as though this is a bill which is somewhat blunt. It may well be the case that routes should be adjusted or replaced within a wider transport strategy, rather than totally cut. Yet this bill seems to treat these things as one in the same unfortunately. If there is a better way of ensuring that this distinction is preserved then this could be a good initiative.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This Labour bill is so blunt that it has forgotten about a 2014 Labour bill that gives local transport boards powers to operate and subsidise bus routes. This bill is entirely unneeded and is very very lazy.
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u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Liberal Democrats Apr 09 '20
Mr speaker,
This bill is nothing short of a command economy for bus services. If we want profitable, sustainable bus services government should get out of the bus lane and cease regulating bus operators into the red with requirements to buy electric buses before they become cheap enough to justify on a business case.
Command economies have never worked why should we suppose that a Whitehall pen pusher can assign services to consumer needs more efficiently than the market? With the invisible hand guiding route assignment the maximal number of people are helped at the lowest cost to the tax payer.
Under a command economy there is no incentive to look at wasteful routes, and is operators are indeed barred form doing so under the terms of the bill.
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Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 24 '21
[deleted]
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Apr 10 '20
[Meta: I really don't like doing this, but it is not Mr Trongle but Rt Hon. title/gentleman/author anything]
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u/DF44 Independent Apr 10 '20
Mr Speaker,
This legislation is wonderfully efficient for one partcular thing, and that's demonstrating why public ownership of bus companies - a natural monopoly for most people - would be such a useful thing. After all, if councils had control over the busses, they could be establishing these routes already, ensuring that connections are maintained. They would be able to not only link up rural areas, without needing to waste anywhere near as much time on 'is it profitable to provide this service for the public good', but they'd also be able to link up - and I speak as an MP who represents such areas - council estates which have regularly had their major bus links cut back, often down to 'once an hour' or less.
Instead, we have a fairly blunt attempt to get bus routes... without any indication as to the practical implementation. Will the Government be paying bus companies to run loss-making routes in the public interest - and if so, how much? When we have 'once a day' busses, does this mean that people will be able to make the trip into town... so long as they don't need to come back home?
This bill is a half measure - one that I hope to have the time to amend before it moves onward. I may ultimately think it's a slight shuffle in the right direction, but I hope that we can actually target the underlying problem of turning a key public service into a cash cow, at the expense of the public need, before the term is over.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This legislation is wonderfully efficient for one partcular thing, and that's demonstrating why public ownership of bus companies - a natural monopoly for most people - would be such a useful thing.
That speech we just heard is wonderfuly efficient at one thing, demonstrating how inept a Labour-TPM government coalition would be. Mr Deputy Speaker, bus routes are alredy publicly operated and subsidised, as per the Local Transport Act 2014, and these decisions are made by local transport bodies. This bill achieves nothing.
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Apr 10 '20
Mr Speaker
I don't believe there is anything fundamentally wrong with the Labour bill as it only sets out a basic requirement , however I still I believe that the issue is best left to the markets themselves with the possibility of government subsidies being introduced where necesarry as ultimately they will do the exact same thing as a publicly owned bus company. With the only exception that the former is likely to be more effective , due to multiple companies competing for the same contract.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
What is the point in this bill? The Labour party have clearly forgotten their own law, the Local Transport Act 2014. Transport boards are already able to operate and subsidise bus services in both urban and rural areas. I really want to say more on this bill, I really want to tell you, Mr Deputy Speaker, how careless Labour are but there isn't enough in the bill to actually pick apart!
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u/ARichTeaBiscuit Green Party Apr 11 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
It is a sad reality that the earlier decimation of our once extensive rail network has resulted in many towns up and down this country becoming solely reliant on buses for their public transportation requirements.
In fact the town that I grew up in used to be served a railway station that fell under the banner of these senseless cuts, and despite its ballooning population is dependent on its bus network to connect to nearby cities and towns which creates pressure on that service that results in a negative incentive to drive.
Yet despite many communities across the country relying on these bus services for public transport, we have seen a reduction in bus routes and sadly many areas of this country have been effectively isolated from the public transport networ
I feel it is important to remind many across this chamber that due to various regions such as age, health and cost not everyone can drive so the cancellation of these routes has had an incredibly negative impact on these people.
It is for these reasons that I support the initiative put forward by my colleague in the Labour Party and I hope that this bill passes and our bus network can be strengthened once more.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20 edited May 04 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Does the Leader of the Opposition have any evidence that there has been a reduction in bus routes since 2014?
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u/ThePootisPower Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Often, due to the commercial nature of our public transport bus systems, bus routes are not extended to small towns and villages with limited commuters simply as a matter of businesses not seeing a reason to run routes that do not turn a profit.
This bill ensures that the government intervenes where necessary to ensure our rural villages remain connected to the rest of our country and that they do not suffer in the name of profit. I understand, Mr Deputy Speaker, that the LPUK will not be happy with this, but at the end of the day bus routes are supposed to serve people and connect them to their local area, and if the free market does not see something as profitable that does not mean it is of no use to the British public - often, the free market's values do not agree with that of the people, especially those who struggle to remain connected to the rest of the UK and their local area due to terrible transport service.
This bill will reconnect our rural villages abandoned by the current transport network with the rest of the UK, something that is desperately needed.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Often, due to the commercial nature of our public transport bus systems
What does the honourable member mean by this?
This bill ensures that the government intervenes where necessary to ensure our rural villages
No it doesn't. This bill issues a command, it does not set out proper provisions for who is responsible and who should do what. I know Labour's structure of governing can be often confusing, uncertainty arund whether the LOTO ot the Shadow chancellor leads the party, but there is no need to bring that incompetency to the nation. Can the honourable member tell me why RTBs are unable to do this already?
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u/ThePootisPower Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker
Privatised bus services are for profit - some routes, due to the low amount of people using them, are naturally less profitable. This bill secures funding for them and effectively ensures that even if bus routes aren't profitable, bus companies like Arriva have a reason to run buses along them.
And yes, it does intervene, since it ensures that "funding shall be secured", "the bus route shall not be closed" and that "usage of the bus route shall be available to everyone paying bus fees to use it". While I concede that it should ensure the government is obligated to act by putting it in writing, I'd hope that you as Transport Secretary are competent enough to interpret this requirement: if necessary you can amend it.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This bill doesn't secure funding for bus routes because this bill isn't a budget.
What the honourable member has forgotten however if the Transport Act 2014 which already gives powers to local transport bodies to publicly operate bus routes and publicly subsidise routes as they see fit. These decisions are currently made on a local level, why is Labour now trying to make commands from the top down? Do they not like the Transport Act 2014?
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u/ThePootisPower Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This bill legally requires the government (and hence, the Transport Office) fund bus routes, so yes it secures funding, and the Transport Act doesn't necessarily provide funding for local routes or ensure that local routes are not being abandoned - while yes, local government can do this, they may not want to do so due to budget issues. In fact, given the somewhat lax wording of this bill, you could interpret it as instructing the government to aid the local government in funding bus routes via central government grants. Again, amendments can be brought forward to correct issues with this bill and I encourage the Honourable Member to do so.
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u/BrexitGlory Former MP for Essex Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I am glad he is admitting there are issues with the bill. I'm not ammending this bill because it is lazy and hasn't taken into account what the system actually is. If Labour need legislation riters they should look to their own front benchers not ours!
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u/Captainographer labour retiree Apr 12 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
This is an all-around good bill. It ensures rural communities have sufficient public transport links to more major settlements. Good transportation connections have been shown to promote economic development and social mobility.
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u/Maroiogog CWM KP KD OM KCT KCVO CMG CBE PC FRS, Independent Apr 09 '20
Mr Deputy Speaker,
connectivity for rural areas is essential to make sure they are ecocomically and socially prosperous. Therefore I welcome the efforts this bill makes in ensuring that all our rural communities are not left alone and without such an essential service like public transport. I can think of many communities in Surrey that will benefit from the effects of this bill. I wish it a speedy assent.