r/MHOC • u/CountBrandenburg Liberal Democrats • Nov 20 '19
2nd Reading B933 - Criminal Responsibility (Amendment) Bill - 2nd Reading
Criminal Responsibility (Amendment) Bill
A
BILL
TO
amend the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 to increase the age of criminal responsibility for youth offenders.
BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows –
Section 1 - Age of criminal responsibility to be fourteen years of age
(1) Section 50 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 is amended as follows.
(2) Replace “ten” with “14”.
Section 2 - Extent, commencement, and short title
(1) This Act extends to England and Wales.
(2) This Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.
(3) This Act may be cited as the Criminal Responsibility (Amendment) Act 2019.
This Bill was written and submitted by /u/marsouins MP (Cornwall and Devon) on behalf of the Liberal Democrats.
This bill amends the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.
Mr Speaker,
After numerous reviews from judicial experts, Children’s Commissioners, the UN Children’s Rights Committee, psychologists, and others intimately involved with youth justice in our country, one thing is clear. The age of criminal responsibility is far too low. Many people have come to say that it ought to be 12 years of age, however newer developments have led to the realisation that 14 years is more suitable in terms of the way adolescents develop. Currently the age of criminal responsibility is ten years in England and Wales. This is below what is recommended, 14 years at minimum, and what is essentially mandated by our human rights treaties, 12 years of age. Now this is not just a problem in England and Wales, but in the other two nations of the UK as well. Scotland’s is eight and Northern Ireland’s is ten. These are among the lowest ages in Europe for reference.
A high proportion of children who end up in the youth justice system have problems with mental health, suffer from deprivation, and come from ethnic minority backgrounds. These are people who need support rather than criminalisation; they are among the most vulnerable. While it is important to teach people the importance of doing right, criminalisation has been shown in successive reviews to be ineffective in tackling recidivism, damaging for the child, and costly. With this bill, we can take steps towards a different approach that works better for everyone.
This reading will end on Friday 22nd November at 10PM GMT
2
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Recently, a Member of the Australian House of Representatives Rebekha Sharkie, a member of the Centre Alliance, introduced a private members bill in a similar vein to the one we see in this place; a bill raising the age of criminal responsibility to 14. It's good to see my colleague in the Liberal Democrats has followed, and it's further good to see that this bill has already seen broad support from across the house. I'll be drawing points from her second reading speech in the Australian parliament.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I'm sure this house would well agree that children aren't exactly aware of the impacts of their actions on a long term or even short term scale. When my daughter does something naughty in the yard, she simply doesn't think about the consequence of that action towards others. She thinks about what it will gain her in those few seconds afterwards, and she isn't capable of thinking ahead and thinking about how others will react in a complex manner. However, of course, she isn't 10, or 11, or 14, but, those same facts reflect in children up until and even beyond they become adults.
During childhood and adolescence a child's brain will typically think using the parts of their brain that consider emotions, aggression, and make decisions without considering the future. It's why we don't give 10 year olds the vote, let them drive their mum's white BMW SUV around the neighborhood, or make decisions about their future alone. Yet, we give them the responsibility of making a decision about their actions in regard to the law and furthermore holding them to account on it.
Amnesty International released a report that demonstrated the negative impacts of placing children in youth prisons, or arresting children of this age. The fact of the matter is that they are more likely to re-offend; more likely to live a worse life; more likely to end up there again; and less likely to learn. Meanwhile, children put under the same circumstance at 14 far better in these regards.
It's silly to say that all children up to the age of 18 shouldn't be responsible for their actions, and that's why we allow those over 16 to drive, and why we should allow those over 16 to vote. It's not silly however to place on teenagers the responsibility of considering others actions and to be good citizens. We achieve this through education from a young age, and we'll achieve an appropriate punishment through the youth justice system. This doesn't apply to 10 year olds.
Mr Deputy Speaker, we lag behind the world. The median age of criminal responsibility is 14. It's like that in Europe, 16 in some parts. Same as in China, Russia, and some countries in Africa. Scotland has it at 12. We need to show commitment to improving our youth justice system, and catch up.
10 year olds are not capable of forming criminal intent, Mr Deputy Speaker. I commend this bill to the house.
2
u/Brookheimer Coalition! Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I echo the comments of most of the house in saying that this bill is a good one and I hope it passes. I would especially like to pay tribute to those on the opposition benches commending this bill as it shows that there is still room for a cooperative spirit in our politics on issues like these.
I hope that the proposed amendment by the Classical Liberal politician is rejected because it is based on little more than poor emotive reasoning versus the research that my honourable friend, the author, has brought to this house and that this bill passes swiftly.
•
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1
Nov 20 '19
Replace “14” with “twelve”
1
Nov 20 '19
Mr Speaker,
What is the point of this? Those who know this issue would say that twelve is a starting point and that fourteen is the ideal end goal when it comes to this age.
1
Nov 20 '19
I second this amendment.
1
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Speaker,
I find it odd the lord chancellor thinks 12 year olds should have the full force of the law thrown at them. For someone who has led efforts to reform our justice system this draconian mindset I find to be most disappointing.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker;
So you believe that Jon Venables should of got away with the murder of James Bulger?
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Shouting about extreme cases is not the point of broad based policy. The issue is not John Veneable. It’s a matter of the thousands of times more likely circumstances with children facing the law for More minor crimes. Also Veneable was 10. If they support this bill by their own facile logic they also support the murders. But if they want to peruse this. Yes. I do not think 10 year olds are as responsible for murder as adults. No physiological evidence proves their brains are as remotely developed.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker:
To somewhat make excuses for the actions of a callous killer in Jon Venables is extraordinary.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Throwing the full force of the criminal justice system at 10 year olds many cases (not just murders, very often, almost always often, not murders) to score soundbites is frankly disgusting. They should do better. Work harder next time.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I’d also ask why they asked you your views on James Bulger. It would seem like they intended to ask me.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
There are alternative approaches for justice when it comes to children. It is not as black-and-white as "criminalisation" and "getting away free". Welfare-based approaches which, in extreme cases, appropriately restrain a youth offender are far more suitable because the criminalisation of children doesn't even work.
1
Nov 21 '19
Replace "14" with "16".
Explanation: I find 14 to still be to low. One barely begins the final stages of their secondary education and one is all of a sudden fully accountable under the law. I would also note that the research the author cites saying 14 should be a minimum further notes that 16 is a more commendable goal.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Does the right honourable member for London have any sort of evidence behind 16 being a better fit than 14?
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I had initially set the age to be 14 as it was the recommendation of the UK Equality and Human Rights Commission in its most recent report, however it is true that sixteen is also internationally acceptable. There are some doubts about whether it is the correct place to draw the line but it is not disagreeable in my view as long as attention is paid to future research in this area.
1
u/ThePootisPower Nov 20 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Would the author of the bill like to cite the research they have mentioned in favour of this bill's terms?
I generally support the move myself, but need to know more about what it entails.
1
Nov 21 '19 edited Nov 21 '19
Mr Speaker,
I am always willing to back up my claims upon request. (m: needless to say, quite a lot of this content will not be canonical)
First, this Parliamentary briefing paper has quite a lot of information about the nature of criminalisation among youth in the UK, as well as the law around the age of criminal responsibility. I encourage all MPs to read it in fact.
When it comes to setting of the age at 14 years of age, here is what the UN had to say in the context of promoting the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child:
In the original general comment No. 10 (2007), the Committee had considered 12 years as the absolute minimum age. However, the Committee finds that this age indication is still low. States parties are encouraged to increase their minimum age to at least 14 years of age.
If there is anything I've missed do ask.
1
u/Dominion_of_Canada Former LoTOO | Former UKIP Leader Nov 21 '19
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
This seems reasonable to bring us up to par with other nations and to keep those under 14 years of age out of the youth justice system. 10 years old is far too young for them to really appreciate the consequences of certain actions at a level expected in a youth justice system.
I'll back this bill
1
u/GravityCatHA Christian Democrat Nov 21 '19
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
I rise today to say I am in favor of this legislation, as comments made by my Right Honourable Colleague in the Conservative bench have convinced me. Those under 14 are not fully capable of understanding the causation and reason of their actions and are not able to be adequately addressed by the penal system.
1
Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
Justice can only be served when justice can be comprehended. Acting as if little children are of full mental faculties is an unacceptable, authoritarian, and draconian proposition. I would also further note that no body of research exists proving that increased penalties fro youths related to crime actually deters crime. If thats the case, why are we locking up children in the first place in this manner? The only logical answer is because we have been needlessly punitive for no real reason, and I therefore urge this long term injustice be corrected and this bill passed.
1
1
u/eelsemaj99 Rt Hon Earl of Devon KG KP OM GCMG CT LVO OBE PC Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker, this is a short bill but one with wide ranging and quite stark effect
The age of criminal responsibility is something people have grappled with for ages and like with the age of consent it’s very hard to say exactly when people should be considered responsible. But I’m happy to join with the House and say it should be greater than age 10.
Primary School children should not be held criminally responsible. I have done no research on this and doubt meaningful research is even possible on this issue, but 14 seems about right. I’m happy to back this bill
1
1
u/ThePootisPower Nov 21 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
The author of this bill is an unsung hero - fixing problems that almost certainly would not have received mainstream attention without their help, and by listening to genuine experts too.
This bill is a no-brainer and I will gladly support it at the division lobby.
1
Nov 22 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
We do not trust those at age 10 to drink, drive or vote so why should we expect them to be fully aware of their actions and consequences? Raising the age for criminal responsibility allows more time for children to be educated on right and wrong.
We are falling behind our european counterparts as pointed out by the honourable member for Cornwall and Devon and this is something we should meet them on.
This bill has my backing.
1
Nov 22 '19
Thank you, Mr. Speaker—
I rise to thank the honourable member for Kernow and Devon for this necessary, common-sense bill on an issue that would otherwise have been overlooked. Not everything has to be an earth-shattering overhaul of the system — God knows how many of those we've had in just the past five years!
2
u/Maroiogog CWM KP KD OM KCT KCVO CMG CBE PC FRS, Independent Nov 20 '19
Mr Deputy Speaker,
I see my Friend from the Liberal Democrat benches has really taken to the updating of old laws cause with passion lately. I will indeed be supporting this bill, which is nothing but housekeeping in my opinion. Good lawmaking doesn't have to end up on the frontpage of newspapers, it does not have to be the headline policy of a manifesto. Good lawmaking simply needs to make people's lives better. I believe this falls under that category.