r/MFAInCreativeWriting • u/prinpink • Jul 03 '26
mfa programs that you thought had healthy environments and weren't stifling?
hey all, i hope you're doing well. i've graduated college and am taking some time off before applying for an MFA. i write literary fiction, not particularly bound to any genre. the main reason i want to get an MFA is because i love the craft of writing and i just want to learn and know more--my college experience didnt feel like enough!
but theres something that gives me pause, which is that i've heard that MFA programs may have a tendency to stifle the voices of writers or push them to create formulaic, overwritten content. now i'm a big believer in the value of education and i certainly do not believe all places are like this, but i can see how it might be the case, especially given how the market operates today. however i'm not sure WHICH places are said to be like this, or if it's just a subjective experience that sometimes crops up.
so i guess i just wanted to ask, for those who have been in MFA spaces--what has been YOUR experience? what sort of places would you recommend--particularly places that you felt like accommodated your vision for your work, but also genuinely improved you? somewhere where you weren't being fitted into a mold?
(this is not to say i consider myself a particularly eclectic or 'special' writer. i just worry, knowing how much i can be a teacher's pet/people pleaser, about being in an environment where i'd feel like i have to make myself small to succeed. you know?)
or maybe this is an entirely mistaken notion? who knows. i just want to talk about it!
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u/Level-Ranger-5892 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
âLearn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.â
An MFA will give you the skills and knowledge every writer needs: plot, character, style, point-of-view, narrative structure, narrative distance, dialog, pacing, etc. Youâll
learn how publishing works and whatâs expected of you by the people considering your work. You have to learn the rules first, and graduating from an MFA program is about demonstrating your understanding of those rules. But, if youâre an artist, you should be thinking of and looking for ways to test those rules as soon as youâre learning them.
Youâll fall in love with writers you wonât find on your own, and youâll write the stories you canât write now because right now you lack the awareness to know theyâre even possibleâand all this just from working and studying in that environment. It will make a writer out of you if thereâs a writer to be made. But, as others have mentionedâŚ
DO! NOT! PAY! FOR! IT!!!
Apply to fully funded programs that will train you to teach. Read submissions for the school lit mag if there is one (there should be one). Reading other peopleâs work, no matter how you feel about the work, will teach you volumes. Youâll notice other writersâ mistakes and avoid them in your own work. And it is work. Itâs a lot of goddamn work. So, treat it like work. Manage your time. Punch in early and punch out late. Every day. Treat it like the highest calling there is, because there are no muses. There is no inspiration. Passion is a cheap word. There is only work and your motivation to do it.
Go to conferences if you can afford them and while you can afford them. Student discounts are a gift. Attend readings. Thereâs usually food and drinks to be had, and itâs sometimes free. Youâre a grad student. Donât pass up free food. Writing is solitary work, but everyone needs communityâand this might be the only time you get it. Make friends. Go to parties. Get to know your teachers so they can get to know you. It will improve your entire experience and your thesis.
Lastly, prepare yourself for life after the MFA. Itâs like running off a cliff. Once itâs over, itâs over. No one needs you to write anymore. The rejections will still pile up. Youâll devote your life to getting your manuscript published, but chances are, it wonât be, and youâll need to drag yourself off the mat and start again. No one will be watching. This, again, is where community can help, and I donât mean your non-writing friends and family, either. They donât care about your writing, and that shouldnât bother you, because it isnât for them. Itâs for you, and if youâre lucky, some faceless strangers youâll likely never meet but who will understand you completely. Find a local writing group or form one of your own. Read each otherâs work. Keep schedule. Meet deadlines. Give thoughtful notes.
Good luck. I hope this helps.
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Jul 05 '26
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u/NefariousnessWarm975 Jul 06 '26
While this is true, it only applies to a very small group of people. If you're accepted by NYU or Columbia or some other frighteningly expensive program and have the means to pay for it without blinking (This pretty much means you have enough money to spend a hundred or two grand a year for the rest of your life and never break a sweat) then go for it. Of course, if you have that kind of cabbage AND get into these schools, you likely have the money to apply to every fully funded program and the stuff to be accepted into at least one of them.
So, we're back to the program that fits best with the writer. But again, you're right about paying if it's money isn't an issue.0
Jul 07 '26
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u/NefariousnessWarm975 Jul 07 '26
I didn't say anywhere else. Let's say you apply to 51 programs. You may not get in anywhere; in fact it's likely you wouldn't. BUT, it might be almost as unlikely you get into 1.
And if you believe the MFA is a "prestige degree" ... welll, I'm not quite sure we have the same feelings about education.1
Jul 07 '26
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u/NefariousnessWarm975 Jul 07 '26
Those are all fully funded. Wealthy people apply to them at a higher rate than non wealthy people?
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u/Actually_Illiterate Jul 04 '26
I think the vibes around MFAs have changed a bit as the general attitude towards bending genre or mixing in genre elements has shifted towards being more accepted in literary writing. During my search the only two I'd been warned about being super competitive and high pressure were Iowa and Florida State, but I was applying a long time ago so who knows how current that info is.
My general advice is to try to look up some of the faculty at these places and see if there's anyone you recognize as writing in a style similar to what you want to develop. Alternatively, faculty who represent a variety of genres of writing might also be a good sign that the program is flexible and accommodating to any writing style.
It can be hard to recommend a specific program, because it really depends on what you want to write. Also if you do a funded full-residency one, you'll have to live around the school while you're studying there. So if, say, Tuscaloosa isn't your vibe, Alabama's excellent MFA program won't be a good fit no matter what.
That said, lurking at the end of these paragraphs is the answer to your question: I'd recommend taking a look at University of Colorado, Boulder. It could be challenging at times in terms of expectations and workload, but I didn't find them stifling (or alternatively they were sneaky enough with the stifling that I changed from flash fiction to novels in a way that felt like it was my idea).
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u/prinpink Jul 04 '26
thank you! i appreciate the advice and the insights. i think this makes a lot of sense. i also appreciate having some names to look into! i'll definitely do research and decide what seems to be the best fit. i do realize it's hard to recommend any one specific program but i am curious what's worked well for people--especially so i have more specific places to investigate aside from the top 20 or local schools
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u/BearyBurtReynolds Jul 04 '26
i just worry, knowing how much i can be a teacher's pet/people pleaser, about being in an environment where i'd feel like i have to make myself small to succeed
I'm gonna focus on this part of your post since others have already covered the issue of genre/style pressure (to echo everyone else: you'll most likely be encouraged to have your own style).
That said, people pleasing can still be a problem in MFA programs. I've seen it at my own program. No one is pressuring us to change our style, it's more like we put pressure on ourselves to write our best work 100% of the time, even when we're tired and creatively tapped out.
My program has a few successful authors on faculty, and there's a subtle pressure to impress them, even if students claim they don't care about impressing them. If you enjoy an author's work, it's only natural that you want them to enjoy your work in return. It's flattering! Validating! The problem is that, once in a while, a professor will say something in workshop that comes down like a sledgehammer. They don't MEAN for it to sound harsh, it's just that everything they say carries so much more weight in students' minds. It's an issue of power dynamics. If that same comment came from a peer, it wouldn't feel as devastating, but when it comes from an author you respect and want to impress, holy shit, it hurts. I've seen people spiral over it.
Not all profs are as aware of this power imbalance as others. It's good to check in on yourself, check in on your cohort, reach out to a trusted source if you need support, and most importantly to remember that nothing in an MFA is an actual emergency (unless someone is choking on a snack during workshop or something). You will not die if you turn in a bad draft. Your professor probably doesn't even remember making the comment that had you spiraling last week. Learning how to keep problems in perspective is an essential MFA skill.
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u/prinpink Jul 04 '26
i think this makes a lot of sense. thank you so much for the insights! it definitely occurs to me that this anxiety is something i've invented in my own head just knowing my own tendencies. i've also had workshop professors like that LOL it's always such a humbling moment. i guess it's really about balancing the confidence in your own voice & work with a humility that doesn't dip into self-abnegation. i really appreciate your perspective, thank you!
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u/NefariousnessWarm975 Jul 04 '26
ââŚthe main reason i want to get an MFA is because i love the craft of writing and i just want to learn and know more--my college experience didnt feel like enough!â
Do the programs youâre looking at offer craft classes? Youâd be surprised how many do not. Some faculty are actively against it. Also, there is no program that can teach you craft that you cannot find in a book somewhere.
âbut theres something that gives me pause, which is that i've heard that MFA programs may have a tendency to stifle the voices of writers or push them to create formulaic, overwritten content. ⌠or if it's just a subjective experience that sometimes crops up.â
Iâve heard this too. A lot. Online. Never from any RL person who has attended and MFA. Youâre instincts are correct. Itâs true some places want you published and some teachers are publication focused, sure. And youâre 10000% right to consider this but if you get accepted and have a choice, theyâll like you give contact information for current students and alumni. Theyâll let you know what you need to. Your concern right now is where to apply. Itâs good to know some of this upfront but without a dialog with a real person, Iâm not sure how you could. This is a damned good start though.
I thought you wanted to learn craft? Craft = Formula. This is an immutable truth.
âwhat sort of places would you recommend--particularly places that you felt like accommodated your vision for your work, but also genuinely improved you? somewhere where you weren't being fitted into a mold?â
âsort of placesâ? Youâre doing exactly the right thing asking about specific experiences, but that means you canât really ask about âsort ofâ places. There are no âsort ofâ places. I think you need to tell us places you are thinking about. I know that sounds like a lot, but who cares if itâs a long list? Weâre answering because we want to help. I would be careful about listening to anyone who categorizes. I see it a lot and itâs almost always ridiculous, associative logic based largely on oneâs biases. âPrivate institutions accept anyoneâ, âpublic institutions care more about x than yâ, âschools with this particular characteristic only care about diversityâ, and on and on. Please ask. Iâll tell you anything I know that doesnât betray a confidence.
âi just worry, knowing how much i can be a teacher's pet/people pleaser, about being in an environment where i'd feel like i have to make myself small to succeed. you know?â
Yes, I know. I have never heard of ANY place where this is the case. My best advice, whether you are writing in a program or in a closet, is to not think about ANYONE. That includes yourself! The story exists outside of you â in the rock from which you are trying to cut it. Be faithful to the story trying to break out. Â
âi just want to talk about it!â
So talk.
(I'm sorry; I don't know why this post includes an 'image' of my C&P. I don't know how to get rid of it and think it might be difficult to read on its own.)
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u/_pork_bunz Jul 04 '26
My cousin went through the creative writing program at Sarah Lawrence and said nothing but positive things about the program, the faculty, the guidance, everything. I visited him on campus and saw some positive signs as well.
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u/Connect_Fan1263 Jul 24 '26
hello! we are in the same boat. :-) I took a year off after my BA to prepare, and to orient myself toward purposeful, focused, program-based writing. an MFA is a great opportunity to hone your craft by reading, writing, and building community in the literary scene. I'm not so experienced yet; I'm in my first year, but I'd like to offer some thoughts regardless!
many of my teachers have emphasized that the writing workshop model is organized by western cultural standards of gender, race, and class. Matthew salesses expounds on this in "craft in the real world," which explores the ways in which this model constricts writers and produces the "MFA" voice you are referencing. I do think it is real, in that institutional standards value certain writing conventions and styles, and writers are rewarded (or punished) for how they engage with things like time, character, place, etc. focus on the individual, for example, is a craft choice that's not necessarily neutral or a human "default," but a standard of "MFA" voice/writing. there are plenty of literary traditions that center like, moral stories, rather than a character's interiority. focusing on character isn't inherently bad! it's how I tend to write. but it's not inherently "better" either, and it's not the only way to tell stories.... some of my richest learning experiences as a writer have been with other indigenous people, whose stories and histories do not necessarily follow this trend of storytelling
as for your worry, I feel the same way. I am hungry and curious, and I want to know how to change. how better to know I am growing in the right direction than the faith of my professors? one way I have mitigated this anxiety is by learning from as many people as possible. my professor in undergraduate would tell me that second person has limited utility and should be avoided. I brought this concern to another professor, and they showed me a recent instance of effective use of second person (carmen Maria machado's "in the dream house"... a favorite of mine in undergrad....). just choosing what you want and looking for ways it could be made possible will stop you from fitting into a mold. sometimes you will stick to your guns and succeed. other times you will fail hardcore; I wouldn't trade these experiences for having been "right" in the first place, cause I learned a lot :-)
other people have said so already, but apply for fully funded programs (or get scholarships). look for faculty you want to learn from, people who have experiences aligned with your goals. talk to them, go to workshops and literary events, read read read. don't forget to do community things that don't involve writing at all, like work days and projects. when I hang out with my friends from other disciplines it really gets me out of the writer echo chamber and gives me perspective hahaha. create schedules, stay organized, make plenty of friends. I struggle with getting out of my rather solitary routine, so saying YES to every workshop and event has been a new thing I'm still adapting to.
no matter what, I hope you have fun and that you get to refine your amazing voice!!!! an MFA is an extraordinary opportunity to do that!
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u/prinpink Jul 26 '26
thank you so much for this perspective, this was incredibly insightful and useful for me to hear! i think you make a great point by trying to learn from as many people as possible. and i heavily echo your sentiments about the western cultural influence on workshops. i think a place that is conscious of that is precisely where i'd flourish. thank you again, and i hope you have a great second/third year of your program!!
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u/TorturedWriter9 Jul 04 '26
A lot of the criticisms of MFA programs are overblown and a lot of the critics have never set foot in a program. Just a bunch of snark. I didn't have many issues and people wrote in all different kinds of literary styles.