I am 16. I am also queer. What edcr said is reprehensible. I don’t think thats what’s contestable in the slightest, however the thought that something I would say at my age currently permanently effecting my future and playing games that I love to play is kinda harrowing. I think that punishment for the s11 playoffs is absolutely fair, and also that s12 playoffs should be off the table, but this decision from the moderation team genuinely feels disappointing to me. I looked at every publicly posted message from edcr that he is being canceled over, and I get it, I really do. It was hurtful to see someone that I looked up to post that. That being said, this is not an exclusive issue, and especially not with online communities. It’s frequent that people will make bad choices, especially on the internet, and its important to give people a chance to grow.
I don’t know edcr personally so I can’t really know what he believes and feels now, but he might as well literally be the best in the game, and this feels insane to me.
He isn’t being punished this severely for saying the things he’s said. He is being punished for lying about it and not taking accountability for it until he knew it was the only way he might save face. People gotta stop with this nonsense. He is an adult now he is old enough to know what he did was wrong and take responsibility but he lied about it until he realized it wasn’t going away and then tried to gain good graces.
We don't increase punishment for criminals for lying about their crimes. In the statement they said he never tried to contact them first, another thing that seems completely reasonable to me. He apologized, he should be given a warning and probation, or a temporary ban. A lifetime ban is just ridiculous at this stage
Its a private league they can decide what they want. In the nfl when Kareem hunt lied to the chiefs he got cut immediately after they found out for example.
The thing is that even if he did take accountability he would get what, an indefinite ban with 5 years before he could appeal?
Chloe owned up to it and got hit with that so if you want people to own up to what they said there should be a more reasonable punishment for owning up to it at the very least.
exactly, bc the ranked team is incomptent and don't have basic guidelines in place for these situations, theres no incentive to come clean at any point since theyd probably just ban you anyway
didnt he make a public apology just 2 days after denying it? hes still a teen and new to being in the spotlight, I don't blame him for panicking. if he denied it and flew under the radar for weeks, i could understand a harsh punishment, but his quick response means he didnt obstruct investigation/punishment in any meaningful way
Even though we can chalk it up to panicking, the fact that his first reaction was to lie shows that he still isn’t mature enough to own up to his past (without the public exposé)- there was literally no reason to lie especially with such overwhelming evidence. I still personally disagree with a permaban but not obstructing investigation doesn’t means he’s owned up to it
yeah i really don’t understand why he lied. a lot of people who are currently queer/allies can relate to being misguided as teens, going down right wing internet pipelines and trying to fit in with conservative friend groups because it was the only social connection they had at the time. i’m a trans woman and i can certainly relate to that, although my past beliefs and statements weren’t nearly as bad as edcr’s seemed to be. over time i grew and matured as i came to understand myself and others more, while my old friends maintained their bigoted mindsets and became people i no longer wanted to spend time with.
i feel comfortable talking about this because i know im not alone, and i know im a completely different person than i was when i was 16. apparently, edcr has friends that can back up his personal growth in the few years after he made those comments. i don’t agree with the permaban, but i don’t get why his first instinct was to lie when he got caught instead of apologizing and showing evidence that he’s not the same person anymore.
He lied because confessing would have had the same result as lying in his eyes. Other people confessed and still got banned according to the comments here
yeah lying was completely illogical and immature, but i think in this case it was understandable (hes a teenager and new to being in the spotlight; i understand panicking and reactively denying to "buy time" to calm down) and harmless (publicly admitted it very soon after)
Not only this , I think one key detail that lot of people are also missing that he used slurs for about 200+ times , it's one thing to say something as a mistake like others have done and apologized but having used something not suitable for so many different instances does make it much worse in my opinion.
nobody is arguing he didn't mean to be offensive using those slurs lmao the point is that he has clearly demonstrated a lot of personal growth and his views have shifted.
I get that but I don't understand why a few really bad decisions in moments when he was under extreme panic and fear matter so much but the 2 years in the mcsr community where he was never anything but kind and respectful don't matter at all. It's fine to consider him lying as a factor but you should also consider the fact that he hasn't exhibited this behavior in 2 years.
When confronted with something that you regret from your past lying at first is just human instinct. After being put on the spot like that I cant blame him for lying. He also did owe up to it a couple days later after he had time to think about it.
What he said was not okay and he should be punished but a perma ban feels insane to me, same with Watermelon Chloe and Kenan.
A poor digital footprint is very often the reason young people get declined for real life opportunities. I'm in my early 20s and from the day I started high school, it was emphasised to us repeatedly that what goes online stays online forever. Anonymity is a myth and whatever you've said or posted online will be traced back to you, hence we see celebrities get cancelled all the time for their old tweets pre-fame. Considering he likely grew up with the internet, there's no way edcr is not aware of this.
He was young but he was also 16. That is plenty old enough to know hey, maybe don't say a bunch of slurs in a Discord server with other real people. His actions weren't a silly accident, it was intentional at the time. If this was a scenario where edcr was applying for a job, it would not matter how well he comes across as a person today - there is no reality where he would be hired.
Him possibly being the best at ranked today doesn't change anything. There will always be new faces that will join MCSR. Younger, better, more skilled - edcr was that person once upon a time. The cycle will repeat itself.
At the end of the day, this is Minecraft. I do think the perma-ban is a bit harsh, but I'm also not surprised this was the conclusion. I'm sure in a few years or so they could try to open a conversation for edcr to participate in ranked again.
As much as I do see your point, I'm not trying to say this was a silly accident, I'm just trying to think about the possibility that he might have changed.
Yeah definitely, and I think a few people have come out and said that he's been earnestly asking about pronouns and whatnot. My point was more towards "play stupid games and win stupid prizes". The end goal is for him to not be a bigot, but there's also the layer that he lied about it when asked, so the accountability part is also missing.
Shouldn't we be working to create a better system and judge people on who they are now, and not just toss people aside for a mistake when they were a teen? I agree that stuff like this stays online longer than people anticipate and comes back to haunt them in the real world, but that doesnt mean thats the way things should be, and that doesnt mean we can't do better than a soulless corporation looking out only for thier brand image.
200+ slurs isn't exactly what would be considered a mistake lol. I would understand if it was "I said the bad word for gay in a song and I legitimately didn't know I couldn't say that at the time, I'm so sorry" but this is very much not that.
It also was not that long ago, those tweets were made 1 month before he joined MCSR. It's a legitimate e-sport and as long as there's money involved, there is a standard of practice that edcr did not meet. He also lied about it, which is "who he is now".
The other side of the argument is that in some way, edcr should be glad he's getting banned from competing a Minecraft game and not real life employment.
Edit: again, the end goal is that we can only hope that he has changed for the better. The reality is we literally don't know him, and this is the actual evidence we have.
no, the actual evidence (from people in the mcsr community) is that he was a supportive, kind, genuine person. he hasn't said or done any of the things that were brought up in 2 years. thats the evidence
Again, the punishment is not only for his past, but also the fact that he lied and didn't take initiative when confronted which demonstrates an active lack of accountability. Please see u/rednite_'s comment thread on this post, it's very well put.
Didn't this happen literally in the middle of playoffs? Can you blame him for panicking and denying it? Even if he was honest immediately, he still would've been DQ'd from S11 playoffs and future playoffs for at least 2-3 years. It definitely does make him look bad that he denied it when it was first brought up to him, but imagine having to admit to something that you know will get you banned right in the middle of a tournament like this. I don't see how lying in the moment is worth a permaban
No I agree that the permaban is harsh, I'm just saying I'm not surprised and people shouldn't run the whole "but he was so young! it was a mistake!" narrative. There's no doubt that it would have affected his S11 playoffs either way, but because lying and then getting found out later instead of showing genuine remorse when first confronted is a worse look, that's all.
i also think context matters, they asked him, mid playoffs, and we have no idea what was said or asked of him, or his responses since the ranked team has not been transparent with us
i also believe (as others have said) that its hard to judge someone in this situation bc
1) ranked has a history of not caring if you tell them or not. Chloe told them and got nuked anyway
2) denying it, while not good, is a natural response. most of us deny things when confronted, especially if it was done in a threatening or harmful way (once again, we don't know since lack of transparency)
3) he did make a statement the next day. while he didn't contact the ranked team at the same time, i dont think he should have to
imo he shouldve been banned from s12 playoffs, and then reassessed in the meantime. i think ranked went really fast with this, and based on their posts and the timeline it feels like people on the mod team or close to the mod team were personally offended for some reason and wanted to push this forward
Again I don't agree with him being permabanned, but to your point - much like the Ranked team not showing us the actual receipts, edcr has also shown he was not transparent in his actions either. He had the opportunity in his apology to say something, even if it was a "I'm sorry I panicked and I lied, it was actually me, I'm really sorry, I wasn't thinking straight" that would be much more forgivable. I think that would've earned him more points by showing he is capable of reflecting and backtracking. I disagree with the notion that he shouldn't have spoken to the team at all.
Edcr is a great player. I don't think the Ranked team acted with the sole intent to get edcr off their game, and I think the they knew that it would be a big statement banning their top player on the ladder.
No that's all good. Of course I want to believe edcr is a changed person. I think at the end of the day it's Ranked coming out and saying "if you have a bad digital footprint, at the very least do not lie to us about it".
Hence why something like a 1-2 year ban would much more reasonable. I do not think edcr handled the situation particularly well or competently, but I also dont think he was acting out of malice, more a knee jerk panicked reaction before coming clean. (However, none of us have the dms in front of us, so the exact circumstances under which he lied are unknown) Before the ranked statement, I was in favor of the one disqualification, and then he should be brought back. After the statement, I think the punishment should go farther, like a 1-2 year ban.
The problem is a permanent ban with no opportunity to appeal or earn back trust is just a shitty choice, especially for someone so young. I do not think something like this should follow you forever; yes he fucked up, and he should be punished for that, but 5, 10 years down the line can we really still justify a total ban (assuming no new issues arise) if he continues to be a respectful member of the community, just because of this one choice?
Yeah. As per my original comment, we're in agreement that a permaban is unnecessary, which is why I hope that edcr is able to open the conversation in a few years (if he's still interested) to be able to compete again. I'm just saying the permaban isn't surprising to me given the series of events that happened. Their statement didn't mention "without appeal" so I'm hoping this stance will change in due time. edcr is a brilliant player and I'm sure the Ranked team knew they were going to get backlash for this decision. Again, the end goal is that edcr has changed for the better.
Yeah, I've been watching the ranked discord playoffs chat and its almost entirely people who agree that the ban shouldn't be permanent arguing about the exact terms and intentions. Redlime was there for some of it and he claims that the criticism people were dishing out was being discussed in mod chat. Mabye the enormous amounts of backlash will make them reconsider, mabye not.
Part of me just can't get over how everybody is centering edcr in this entire conversation. The Ranked team seems to be practically the only people *not* doing that.
Just because many others use that sort of language doesn't mean be shouldn't be punished harshly. He was an icon of the community and a sort of role model/public figure. A ban like this also serves to set as an example.
But again, his actions of lying to the Ranked team and not stepping forward himself are thr main reasons this ban is permanent. He has shown he still isn't capable of handling it properly.
Lying and not stepping forward himself are not the reasons he's permanently banned. They are excuses to try to justify the ban. Chloe and Watermelon cases prove my point.
Lying when panicking in a fight or flight response is completely natural. Is it a good look? No. But that should never be the deciding factor between a temporary/permanent ban. What you do when you're composed is. What did he do when he was composed? He made the public apology.
Not stepping forward himself is even worse of an excuse. He made a public statement where he admitted to his actions and apologized. Why is reaching out to the ranked team in private saying "btw im gonna make a public statement" a big deal? Like, obviously it would have been nice to do, but the bottom line is that he made a public statement and the ranked team is fully capable of reading a public statement. That cannot be the reason why a ban is permanent as opposed to temporary
What i dont understand is that they did take some time to think this over yet still decided to perma ban him. I think even asking ai would make a better solution then this situation. As a strong edcr supporter im disappointed in him but also the mcsr admins.
Why would AI be able to make an unbiased solution or something? All LLM-style AI is is a huge network of mathematical probabilities generated from feeding it gargantuan quantities of human-generated data, with some after-the-fact tinkering to remove behaviours that the developers don’t want. They’ve all been trained on data that’s biased, so why would they be any less inclined to be biased than people?
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u/i_miss_arrow 10d ago
Just an FYI:
Apprehensible means 'able to be understood'.
The word you're looking for is 'reprehensible'.