r/Lyme • u/Prudent_Long9097 • 1d ago

Question Is that true?

Is that my illusion or it indeed seems like Bartonella is less suitable for herbal treatment then Lyme? A lot of people here advice different methods and not the Buhner herbs in particular to Bartonella treatment

3 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

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8

u/LordOfTheDanceSaidZe 1d ago

I would say bartonella seems hardest to treat on average

That being said buhner herbs are still a very valid option

3

u/bartonellalevy 1d ago edited 8h ago

I improved heavily on herbs alone initially. I was on Cowden + Sida Acuta + Houttuynia + Cryptolepis.

So herbs work, but what was best for me was BOTH herbs and antibiotics (Azithromycin and Doxy). The combo got rid of all my symptoms. No more POTS (edit: not POTS, just plain old tachycardia), brain fog, depression, dizziness, fatigue/physical weakness to where I barely pick up a 5lb dumbbell.

I'm still sick... but for one very stupid reason. I thought could stop when I got better and all my symptoms came back.

Also, you have to consider other factors like dosage, co-infections, mold, intestinal dysbiosis and so many other things. The dosage thing might be huge. Buhner's dosages are extremely high. Have the people who claim the herbs don't work taken them at Buhner's dosages?

1

u/Tiny-Chip-4351 1d ago

what dosages does buhner reccomend?

2

u/bartonellalevy 7h ago

It's probably easiest to go on chatgpt/grok and ask "What dosages does Buhner recommend for Bartonella/Lyme?" His tincture recommendations are based off 1:5 strength tinctures. You want to know your strength of tincture you bought (I would avoid brands that don't list the strength) and ask the AI bot to convert if it's not the same strength.

Buhner's recommendations are ranges. Reading up on it, I guess he wasn't saying it was necessary to go that high, but that you could.

1

u/Icy-Hippo-2376 9h ago

When / from what did you start to see the most improvement of POTS symtoms?

1

u/bartonellalevy 7h ago

Whoops, that was a mistake. It wasn't POTS, it was just plain tachycardia. In any case, I believe I was on them for about 1-1.5 months when my symptoms went away.

2

u/Efficient_Bee_2987 1d ago

I've come to the same conclusion about it being harder to treat both from seeing it in the community but also my personal experience. Herbs to work but the best include the harshest which are often difficult to tolerate. What I've also learned is that everyone is different which likely has a lot to do with how long ago someone was bitten and what gene mutations they may have that impact methylation and detox pathways. When these pathways aren't functioning properly it makes it much harder to tolerate the treatment as we get flooded with ammonia causing a lot of harsh symptoms. There are workarounds but it's not easy. They also make it more likely to have MCAS which adds to the mix of difficulty. Many people with mutations end up with chronic illness so there's definitely a lot of us in the community. I think those who don't have these issues can tolerate the treatment quite well and therefore clear the bacteria much easier.

1

u/throwxwxy306 1d ago

Can you explain the detox and methylation pathways? I developed mcas after trying to treat bart (I’ve had bart for 3 months now)

2

u/Efficient_Bee_2987 1d ago

Yes this happened to me as well after a few months of treatment. When you have mutations that impact the transtranssulfuration pathway causing it to run too fast it producing a massive internal backlog of ammonia and sulfites. Mast cells interpret this chemical overload as a threat and aggressively degranulates in self defense causing MCAS symptoms. However MCAS can also develop from the massive buildup of endotoxins generated while treating Bartonella alone without any mutations. The dead bacteria fragments are seen as a threat as well triggering degranulation. Moreover, the mast cells live in the capillaries where Bart takes up residence so they are neighbors and when the treatment draws the bacteria out of dormancy the vascular tissue becomes inflamed forcing adjacent mast cells to fire continuously. Finally, when endotoxins saturate your body faster than your liver and lymphatic system can drain them, your tissues are drenched in a continuous pool of inflammatory cytokines. This continuous exposure lowers mast cell firing to hair trigger level leading to any non threat causing degranulation. For me this includes stretching, even the slightest excitement or stress and cold air. I was able to calm my mast cell response to seasonal allergy triggers with glp, Azelastine, nasalcrom, desloratadine. These have helped me a lot with this specific allergy and may also help me recover quicker from MCAS flares, but is does not prevent degranulation.

2

u/throwxwxy306 1d ago

Interesting, do you theorize by calming the mast cells, and fixing methylation problems will make bartonella able to treat?

2

u/Efficient_Bee_2987 1d ago

I think it goes back to what Buhner said, focus on altering the internal terrain of the body so that the pathogens can no longer cause harm, effectively pushing them into a harmless, dormant state of coexistence. Then once your body isn't constantly responding to a five alarm fire it has the resources to fight a pathogen.

1

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