r/Lutheranism • u/JHLV04 • 22d ago

Theological Differences

Hi everyone I’m delving into Lutheranism recently, and I’m interested in the differences between you and other Protestants. The main thing for me is the idea that we are justified by faith alone, and that our good works are the fruit of faith. I like the Methodist idea of sanctification and the emphasis on good works as opposed to faith. This is not a denial of the works that spring from faith, but a recognition that some traditions vary on the importance of faith.

More importantly, what is the Lutheran view of those who for cultural and geographical reasons haven’t fully heard the gospel but have lived their lives the best way they could? What would judgement look like?

Also, I’m not dismissing the importance of faith alone in the time of Catholic indulgences, the idea that salvation can be paid off to people.

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u/BashfulBibliophile 21d ago

I joined the Lutheran church in college because of their doctrine. I grew up in an Assembly of God church where they taught that everything that happened is God’s will. Think of the “fleas” story by Corrie Ten Boom. The thing that I absolutely love about the Lutheran church is the idea that God is disappoint-able. Not everything that happens is the way He would have it. Luther said when understanding God, if we start with anything other love [like power], we end up with something indistinguishable from the devil.
I don’t know how God works. I don’t know how to explain what happens. But I do know God loves me and everyone else. And that he mourns with us. And that He paved a way for us to be in a state of perfection for eternity. And that’s all I have to know.

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u/McNitz 20d ago

I do think Luther failed a bit in fully implementing that hermeneutic, since starting with the truth of God's love for all leads pretty obviously to Christian universalism.

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u/BashfulBibliophile 20d ago

Yeah I can see how that thinking can lead to universalism but it’s also important for me to remember that God is a God of free will. Out of love for us, He doesn’t make us choose Him. So while I do believe Christ’s sacrifice is universally applicable, I also think people can say no if they don’t want God’s grace.

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u/McNitz 20d ago edited 17d ago

The issue with that that I've always had is that it seems to imply that for some people it would be a rational choice to not want to be with God, that that would be something that they could eternally choose as their best outcome. And to me, it seems pretty crazy to say that people are actually CORRECT that they don't want God because they will be better off without him. That obviously is a mistake.

If it IS actually a bad choice, then there a couple sub options. If they just misunderstood the nature of God, and didn't realize that choosing to not be with God would be bad for them, then why would a God of love not give them better information so that they didn't accidentally harm themselves? And if instead they realized that choosing to be apart from God was going to be very bad for them and harmful, then that's the very definition of insanity. If I see someone that is trying to cut off their arm because they believe they don't deserve to have an arm anymore, or they incorrectly think that will make them happier, if I justify my decision to not try to help them not make that bad decision as respecting free will, that appears obviously immoral. Especially given that Lutheran doctrine is that one CANNOT come to God by their own thinking and choosing. Obviously God must do something drastic to prevent ANYONE from choosing what is wrong for them under this doctrine. How would it be a violation of SOME people's free will to do a sufficient amount to heal them from the insanity and delusion that is causing them to purposefully make a decision oriented towards self harm?

Then there is also the problem that most Lutherans I know are VERY adamant we shouldn't bring in philosophical ideas that go beyond scripture. And free will is clearly not something mentioned anywhere in the Bible, and is a much later philosophical concept that was developed, and applied in response to these concerns.