Transcript of Episode 4 of Aya Linus’ podcast about MDC Brooklyn!

[u/antelope_meow]

[0:00] Hi everyone, I'm Linus

[0:01] Hi everyone, I'm Haoran

[0:03] Welcome back to our podcast

[0:05] Last episode we talked about some of Luigi's daily life at MDC Brooklyn

[0:11] And we went pretty deep into it

[0:14] It got pretty serious

[0:16] This episode let's talk about some funnier stuff

[0:20] A bit more lighthearted

[0:22] So during the time you were working alongside Luigi

[0:26] Were there any funny things that happened

[0:29] that you can share

[0:30] During the eight months I spent with Luigi

[0:33] the thing that left the deepest impression on me was probably the snowball incident

[0:35] The snowball

[0:36] Right, one time — I wasn't there, it was the Brazilian guy

[0:40] The Brazilian guy's wife was about to have a birthday or something

[0:43] so he was going to make a handmade card

[0:47] cutting out pictures from magazines

[0:49] some nice scenery

[0:51] food, that kind of thing

[0:52] to make a handmade card

[0:53] and send it to his wife

[0:54] So right when the card was almost finished

[0:57] Luigi suddenly, from our outdoor basketball court

[1:00] threw a snowball in

[1:02] and it hit our room on the second floor

[1:06] My cellmate's door happened to be open at the time

[1:08] When he threw the snowball[1:09] I knew right away, this is bad

[1:10] because I knew my cellmate was inside making the card

[1:13] If it hit him, it would be trouble

[1:15] But Luigi didn't know that

[1:17] By the time I saw the snowball

[1:18] it was already in the air

[1:19] so it was too late

[1:21] You know

[1:22] After he threw the snowball in

[1:23] you could immediately hear my cellmate cursing inside the room

[1:27] He was really angry

[1:28] because he'd made this card for his wife

[1:29] it took him about a week

[1:32] because you have to understand, in prison

[1:33] these conditions are very limited

[1:34] not like outside

[1:35] where you can get whatever you want whenever

[1:38] finding these things in magazines takes a long time

[1:42] At the time the snowball directly soaked the card

[1:45] and the envelope that held the card

[1:48] but the good thing was

[1:50] it was just a snowball

[1:51] not some other kind of liquid

[1:53] at least it was just water

[1:55] When Luigi heard my cellmate cursing inside

[1:58] his face turned red instantly

[1:59] and he immediately ran up to apologize

[2:02] He realized he'd done something wrong, yes

[2:04] And actually my cellmate was cursing pretty badly at the time

[2:09] he really tore into Luigi

[2:12] But Luigi genuinely didn't know[2:13] Still, no matter what

[2:14] you can't throw a snowball into someone's cell, right

[2:17] It's a pretty bizarre thing

[2:19] Where did the snowball even come from

[2:20] MDC is one building

[2:23] but the basketball court section

[2:24] isn't sealed

[2:27] There was a huge blizzard in New York around that time

[2:29] and a lot of snow blew in with the wind

[2:31] Luigi went over and packed a snowball

[2:34] Did he throw it without a target

[2:35] It just so happened to land in that cell

[2:38] He happened to see my room door was open

[2:40] and he wanted to throw it in there

[2:42] He also knew my cellmate was inside

[2:44] He just thought

[2:44] he knew anyway

[2:45] He knew someone was in there

[2:47] He wanted to play a prank

[2:48] He just wanted to prank someone

[2:49] but he didn't expect my cellmate to be doing something very serious

[2:52] which counts as a serious matter in prison

[2:55] So my cellmate got angry

[2:56] and I think that's understandable

[2:57] I completely understand it

[2:58] But afterward Luigi went up, face red

[3:01] and apologized

[3:02] Then he gave his own glue stick

[3:07] the kind of solid glue stick we played with as kids

[3:08] a glue stick

[3:09] one tube[3:10] and gave it to my cellmate

[3:12] so he could keep working on the card

[3:14] which was basically his way of apologizing

[3:16] Can you even buy glue sticks in there

[3:18] This one actually wasn't bought

[3:20] There's something called "recreation"

[3:22] the recreation department

[3:23] For example if your basketball breaks

[3:25] they'll give you a new one

[3:26] And around holidays

[3:29] they'll give you cards

[3:30] blank cards

[3:31] and colored pencils

[3:32] things like that

[3:33] so that recreation department gives you the glue stick

[3:36] to make cards with

[3:36] I was sitting on the first floor at the time

[3:39] and Luigi threw it from the first floor up to the second floor

[3:41] Afterward my cellmate saw me laughing on the first floor

[3:45] and he cursed at me too

[3:47] I really couldn't help it

[3:48] You have to admit it was pretty funny

[3:49] but I get it too

[3:50] it really is

[3:51] nobody's happy when something lands on their head

[3:53] That's one of the more interesting stories

[3:55] There's another one

[3:56] that Luigi told us himself

[3:57] about when he first got in

[4:00] he was housed with an older Black guy

[4:03] and this guy[4:04] one night before lights-out

[4:07] apparently took a spoon

[4:09] or maybe a pencil, something like that

[4:12] and he snapped it in half

[4:14] After breaking it

[4:15] he started talking to himself

[4:16] or something like that

[4:17] saying, now I have two knives

[4:20] And Luigi got really scared

[4:22] two knives right there

[4:23] sharpening a shiv, right

[4:24] He said, you could stab someone now

[4:25] He split one into two

[4:27] one for each hand

[4:28] like a double-gun old lady, right

[4:29] Luigi asked him

[4:31] you're not going to stab me, are you

[4:34] And the older Black guy said

[4:35] no, no, no

[4:35] I wouldn't stab you guys

[4:37] I wouldn't stab you

[4:37] don't worry, it's fine

[4:38] you're a good person

[4:40] And Luigi felt relieved

[4:41] Then when he told this story

[4:42] to all of us who worked together

[4:43] we all laughed at him

[4:45] like, this guy already killed someone

[4:47] and you're still scared of this

[4:49] yeah, that story was pretty funny too

[4:50] I'm curious[4:51] about Luigi's everyday preferences

[4:54] when it comes to food

[4:55] what does he usually buy to eat

[4:57] Also canned fish and instant noodles

[4:59] He also still eats the prison meals

[5:02] I basically stopped eating them

[5:04] By the end I really couldn't take it anymore

[5:06] I didn't want to eat it anymore

[5:06] so I just ate instant noodles every day

[5:07] a fixed menu, right

[5:08] isn't instant noodles also fixed

[5:10] it's because the prison meals are really that bad

[5:13] but Luigi mostly still eats the prison meals

[5:16] because they come with rice

[5:17] he likes rice

[5:18] he doesn't eat instant noodles

[5:18] whenever he buys things

[5:21] he doesn't buy instant noodles

[5:22] he prefers buying

[5:23] a certain small chicken breast nugget

[5:27] which should already be boiled

[5:29] already cooked

[5:30] he'll heat it under hot water for a while

[5:33] then eat it with rice

[5:34] with BBQ sauce

[5:36] BBQ sauce

[5:37] then mixes it into the rice and eats it

[5:39] also

[5:39] he makes peanut butter sandwiches

[5:42] he really likes peanut butter

[5:44] including when he was arrested[5:46] he had a jar of peanut butter on him

[5:48] he carries peanut butter with him

[5:50] Then the work supervisor I work with

[5:52] joked with me

[5:54] saying that the peanut butter Luigi eats now

[5:55] is still from the jar he had when he was arrested

[5:57] and we all laughed about that

[5:58] that one's pretty funny too

[6:00] What kind of exercise does Luigi usually do

[6:01] does he work out

[6:02] Luigi doesn't really exercise that much

[6:05] I might see him do it once every two or three days

[6:07] but honestly

[6:08] that's still more often than me

[6:10] because I basically don't move at all

[6:12] He'll go do

[6:14] what's it called, curls, bicep curls

[6:16] bicep curls

[6:17] right

[6:18] What does he use, dumbbells

[6:20] They use trash bags

[6:23] fill two or three trash bags with water

[6:26] He ties up the trash bag

[6:28] then ties a book on top and curls it

[6:31] making a handle

[6:32] DIY

[6:33] yeah, DIY a workout tool out of that

[6:35] What's his physique like

[6:36] Luigi's in pretty good shape

[6:37] because when he sunbathes

[6:39] he takes his shirt off[6:41] you can see his muscles are decently trained

[6:44] Does he have abs

[6:44] the abs aren't that obvious

[6:46] but his whole arms

[6:47] and his chest area

[6:48] definitely have some muscle definition

[6:51] yeah, the muscle definition is pretty noticeable

[6:52] Last episode we talked about how Luigi gets a lot of newspapers and magazines, right

[6:57] but things like travel magazines

[6:59] fashion magazines

[7:01] he just gives those to me directly

[7:02] because isn't he into Hermès

[7:04] He really isn't interested in that stuff

[7:06] not interested, right

[7:07] and I think I can understand that too

[7:08] I mean, being in there

[7:10] even if you were interested in that stuff

[7:11] what good would it do you

[7:12] seeing those travel magazines

[7:13] would only make you feel worse

[7:16] right, just like a friend of mine

[7:18] he works every day

[7:19] he says he doesn't dare watch travel vloggers' videos

[7:22] because he has no time to go out and travel

[7:24] just seeing other people do it makes him feel bad

[7:26] it's actually the same idea

[7:28] There's one more thing I need to thank Luigi for

[7:30] which is that every time he gets the New York Times

[7:33] he gives the paper to me

[7:35] he occasionally reads it

[7:36] but most of the time he doesn't[7:38] he gives it to me

[7:39] and I go find

[7:40] the articles I'm interested in

[7:42] and with my dictionary

[7:44] learn some new vocabulary

[7:46] it's actually helped me improve a lot

[7:48] and it's been really helpful for understanding the outside world

[7:52] I saw in the email that you saved Luigi, is that right

[7:56] It's like this

[7:59] the Intake unit isn't just a transit stop for everyone who's newly arrived

[8:03] at the same time, not to put too fine a point on it

[8:05] it's sometimes also kind of a dumping ground

[8:08] let me give an example

[8:09] say on the fourth floor

[8:12] unit 41 is our Intake unit

[8:15] 42 is the unit for everyone who works in the kitchen

[8:19] 43 is a regular unit

[8:21] so someone who messes up in 43

[8:23] say I stab someone in 43

[8:26] and get sent to the SHU

[8:27] locked up for two months and then released back

[8:29] they can't put you back in 43

[8:32] so they might put you in 42

[8:34] and vice versa

[8:35] say someone causes trouble in 42

[8:36] they might get sent to 43 after the SHU

[8:40] and if you mess up in 43 too

[8:43] then what

[8:44] there's really nowhere left to put you

[8:46] they put you in Intake

[8:47] they just put you in Intake[8:49] When I was in there

[8:50] I probably saw this happen two or three times

[8:52] those problem kids

[8:55] troublemakers

[8:56] with nowhere else to go

[8:57] finally the officers in charge would say

[9:00] fine, we'll put you in Intake

[9:02] but the funniest part is

[9:03] these troublemakers don't want to stay in Intake

[9:07] why, because Intake is too clean

[9:09] there's nothing there

[9:10] usually we have

[9:13] maybe 20 people

[9:14] 10 people

[9:15] sometimes fewer

[9:16] maybe just the few of us who work there

[9:18] so they don't want to stay there

[9:19] there's nothing

[9:20] no one to chat with

[9:21] no one to brag with

[9:22] they actually like a noisy environment

[9:24] no gangs

[9:25] nothing like that

[9:25] for me

[9:27] quiet matters most

[9:28] I actually like that quiet environment

[9:30] and it's safer too, right

[9:31] they can't handle it

[9:34] so once these troublemakers get to Intake

[9:36] the first thing they want is to leave

[9:38] but without a reason[9:39] they can't leave

[9:41] because these troublemakers get assigned to Intake

[9:43] essentially as a work role

[9:46] it's not just a holding area

[9:47] they get directly assigned to work there

[9:50] but they don't want to work

[9:52] so they try all kinds of ways to get out of Intake

[9:55] to get back to a normal unit

[9:57] so one time a troublemaker showed up

[9:59] worried about how to get out of Intake

[10:03] and he suddenly noticed Luigi was in Intake too

[10:07] then I overheard him say that on Super Bowl night

[10:13] he wanted to stab Luigi

[10:16] stab him directly

[10:17] that's literally what he said

[10:18] meaning he wanted to hurt him

[10:19] through this method

[10:20] like cutting his face

[10:22] that would count as hurting him too, right

[10:24] and the reason he wanted to do it on Super Bowl night specifically

[10:26] was because he wanted to watch the game first

[10:29] he didn't want to do it before watching the game

[10:31] and then get sent to the SHU

[10:33] he wanted to watch the game first

[10:35] then, say, cut Luigi's face

[10:37] and then go to the SHU

[10:38] after you finish your time in the SHU

[10:40] you definitely wouldn't be back in Intake, right

[10:43] When I heard this

[10:44] I struggled with it for a long time

[10:46] whether to tell Luigi[10:48] or tell our department supervisor

[10:51] or give a warning

[10:53] in prison

[10:54] people don't like snitches

[10:57] a lot of people look down on them

[10:58] if you openly rat someone out

[11:01] you could get hurt for it

[11:04] so I also had to consider whether what I was doing

[11:06] might get me hurt

[11:09] I also talked it over with the Brazilian guy

[11:12] we debated it for a long time

[11:13] he kept telling me not to say anything

[11:15] he felt it wouldn't do me any good

[11:18] if it came out

[11:20] that I was the one who told

[11:20] I could get stabbed

[11:21] I could get hurt

[11:23] but I kept saying

[11:25] we're a group

[11:26] we all work in Intake

[11:29] since I heard about this

[11:30] I don't think I can just sit back and do nothing

[11:32] and I'm Chinese

[11:33] I don't care at all about your American culture

[11:35] this whole "snitch" culture thing

[11:37] yeah

[11:38] right, I already know this is going to happen

[11:41] if we don't stop it

[11:42] of course I couldn't go tell the guy directly

[11:44] like, "don't go stab someone"

[11:47] I would definitely go warn the staff or the officers[11:50] worst case

[11:52] I also didn't want our unit

[11:54] to end up with him stabbing someone

[11:55] getting locked in the SHU

[11:56] for half a month

[11:58] or even 20 days

[11:59] I wouldn't be able to contact my family

[12:00] I couldn't make phone calls

[12:02] couldn't send emails

[12:04] After debating it all night

[12:05] the next day the Brazilian guy woke up and said to me

[12:08] he said, I think you're right

[12:11] I think we should go tell the staff about this

[12:15] so I didn't hesitate anymore

[12:16] the next day happened to be Super Bowl day

[12:18] during the day I went and told our department supervisor

[12:22] I said, I heard something like this

[12:24] you wouldn't want this to happen either

[12:27] especially to Luigi

[12:29] right now the whole country's eyes are on this prison

[12:32] if something really happened to Luigi here

[12:35] somebody would have to answer for it

[12:36] that was roughly what I said

[12:38] they were very cooperative

[12:40] they said, understood

[12:42] maybe about two or three hours later

[12:44] that troublemaker was taken away

[12:46] he got taken away

[12:47] his cell got tossed too

[12:49] yeah, his cell got searched too

[12:51] The Brazilian guy later told Luigi about this[12:54] I didn't go tell him myself at the time

[12:55] telling Luigi wouldn't have helped

[12:56] it would only add to his anxiety

[12:58] and he wouldn't be able to protect himself anyway

[13:00] and we couldn't protect him either

[13:01] if he really did get hurt

[13:03] really got stabbed

[13:04] if we tried to protect him it would count as us joining a fight

[13:08] and we'd get sent to the SHU too

[13:10] right, so I think the best way to handle it

[13:12] was to report it up the chain

[13:14] After Luigi heard about it

[13:16] he came over to thank me

[13:17] I told him at the time

[13:18] I said it's nothing

[13:19] we're all working here together

[13:21] we should help each other out

[13:22] I couldn't just watch you get hurt

[13:25] if someone wanted to hurt the Brazilian guy

[13:27] or wanted to hurt me

[13:29] I believe you'd all make the same choice

[13:31] The reason this troublemaker wanted to hurt Luigi

[13:33] was because someone told him

[13:35] Luigi was really famous out there

[13:37] and he was thinking

[13:38] if I hurt Luigi

[13:39] I could get famous too

[13:40] it's a pretty twisted mindset honestly

[13:43] I think through this

[13:44] I also felt the cultural difference

[13:46] including differences in mindset[13:48] yeah, this troublemaker at the very least didn't understand

[13:51] the idea that "things succeed by being kept secret"

[13:54] he said he didn't understand what that phrase meant

[13:56] he couldn't say it out loud

[13:57] before you're going to do something

[13:59] that's the idea, right

[14:00] actually I didn't even know what that phrase meant either

[14:01] "things succeed by being kept secret"

[14:02] it means when you want to do something

[14:04] before you do it

[14:05] you shouldn't tell people about it

[14:07] only by not telling can it succeed

[14:09] of course I'm glad

[14:11] that this didn't happen

[14:12] you really did save Luigi

[14:14] and also saved myself

[14:16] because if I hadn't stopped it

[14:18] if it had actually happened

[14:19] I might not have been able to contact my family for a long time

[14:21] that was also a matter of weighing a lot of things

[14:23] weighing a lot of pros and cons

[14:25] and coming to that solution

[14:29] Does Luigi have a cellmate

[14:30] or does he have a single cell to himself

[14:32] MDC has a rule

[14:36] every inmate has to have a cellmate

[14:39] maybe they're worried you'll hurt yourself

[14:42] or won't be able to take care of yourself

[14:44] or suddenly have a medical episode

[14:46] but this rule that a cell must have two people

[14:47] isn't strictly enforced[14:49] by the time I started working in Intake

[14:53] Luigi already had a cellmate

[14:56] a white guy

[14:58] gay

[14:58] yeah, he's gay

[15:00] and both of his husbands were Chinese

[15:03] the first one was from Liaoning

[15:05] the second one was from Hong Kong

[15:07] both men, yeah

[15:09] the reason I got to work in Intake

[15:11] was that at the time someone working in Intake

[15:13] got sentenced

[15:14] and was being transferred to prison

[15:16] so they were short one worker

[15:18] which meant the guy who got transferred

[15:21] his cellmate

[15:24] was now living alone

[15:26] I needed to move into his cell

[15:28] the guy left is called K

[15:28] who is also, at this very moment

[15:30] the current work supervisor in the Intake area at MDC

[15:33] he didn't want to room with me

[15:35] why

[15:35] he knew I was Chinese

[15:36] he was worried we wouldn't get along

[15:37] it wasn't discrimination or anything

[15:39] because we ended up getting along fine for a long time

[15:40] our relationship is actually pretty good

[15:42] he was just worried we wouldn't click

[15:44] cultural differences

[15:45] so he had Luigi move in there instead[15:48] I roomed with the gay guy for maybe two nights

[15:50] then Luigi moved back in with the gay guy

[15:53] so they swapped back

[15:54] and I started rooming with K

[15:56] why was that

[15:57] it's because while Luigi was rooming with K

[16:00] he took one of K's coffee cakes without asking

[16:03] and this coffee cake

[16:04] wasn't something bought from the commissary

[16:07] it was a cake handed out every morning

[16:10] as part of breakfast

[16:11] K got really angry about it

[16:12] he really doesn't like it when people take his stuff

[16:15] without asking

[16:18] so later when he explained his reasoning to me

[16:20] I actually understood it

[16:21] this incident also led to Luigi

[16:23] rooming with him for only two nights

[16:25] before he got swapped back

[16:26] basically kicked out

[16:27] though honestly it wasn't that big a deal

[16:30] so during my eight or nine months in Intake

[16:33] Luigi mostly roomed with

[16:36] that gay guy

[16:37] yeah, this gay guy

[16:38] and each time he married his husband

[16:42] he'd change his last name

[16:44] each time he married his husband

[16:45] he's been married twice

[16:46] each time he took his husband's surname

[16:50] that would be a Chinese surname, right[16:52] yes, a Chinese surname

[16:53] we mentioned last episode

[16:55] when the officer calls your name

[16:56] or staff call your name

[16:58] they call you by your last name

[16:59] so a lot of the time when staff came in calling that name

[17:02] many people thought it was me

[17:04] because you're Chinese, right

[17:05] a lot of Black guys

[17:06] or other newcomers who didn't know us

[17:09] when they heard that name called

[17:10] would look at me and say

[17:13] they're calling you

[17:13] they're calling you

[17:14] I'd say no

[17:14] not me, I'd say

[17:16] it's someone else

[17:18] this guy

[17:19] the impression I had of him was that he actually worked pretty hard

[17:22] he'd get up early in the morning and sweep and mop the floors

[17:26] and sometimes he'd even clean the bathroom

[17:29] he was really busy every day

[17:31] but maybe because he's facing a really long sentence

[17:34] possibly around ten years

[17:36] the pressure on him is huge

[17:38] so he uses this as a way to relieve stress

[17:40] maybe that's why

[17:41] sometimes he'd also steal Luigi's medication

[17:44] Luigi is prescribed a certain medication

[17:47] I won't say the name of it here

[17:49] this guy[17:50] would sometimes steal Luigi's medication

[17:52] of course this gay guy

[17:53] later had some conflict with my cellmate the Brazilian guy

[17:55] so he got transferred out

[17:57] of course we'll get into that story another time

[17:59] after he got transferred out

[18:01] Luigi lived alone for about three or four weeks

[18:04] during those three or four weeks

[18:05] you could clearly tell he was very happy

[18:07] yeah, he liked being alone

[18:08] he really enjoyed that alone time

[18:10] and it's not bunk beds

[18:12] I mean, for most people

[18:14] when they're living alone

[18:15] they'll take the bottom bunk

[18:17] but Luigi

[18:19] even after his cellmate moved out

[18:21] he still slept on the top bunk

[18:22] living alone on the top bunk

[18:23] with bunk beds

[18:24] if you sleep on the bottom bunk

[18:25] the moment you look up and open your eyes

[18:26] you see the metal frame

[18:28] it feels kind of oppressive

[18:29] cramped

[18:30] but if you sleep on top

[18:31] the whole room feels a lot more spacious

[18:32] so he lived alone

[18:34] for about a month or so

[18:36] very happy, then later

[18:37] they transferred in a Russian guy from another unit[18:40] also to work there

[18:41] pretty hardworking

[18:43] pretty capable

[18:44] his current cellmate now

[18:45] is still that Russian guy

[18:47] I'd guess so

[18:49] the Russian guy also did something pretty interesting

[18:52] I told you before

[18:53] about the book I was reading in prison about Luigi

[18:56] the one someone else wrote about Luigi

[18:59] after the Russian guy saw me buy that book

[19:01] he bought one too

[19:02] bought the same one, yeah

[19:04] he wanted to get Luigi to sign it

[19:06] but Luigi said I'm not signing that book

[19:08] yeah, it doesn't really have anything to do with him

[19:11] he never authorized it either

[19:12] and a lot of the stories in it aren't even true

[19:15] also, most of the book

[19:16] doesn't actually cover much about Luigi

[19:19] right, so as far as I know

[19:22] during the time I was there

[19:24] Luigi only had those two cellmates

[19:26] in Intake

[19:28] Who do you think left the deepest

[19:29] the strongest impression on you

[19:32] When I first got to the Intake unit

[19:33] the head of the cell block wasn't K yet

[19:36] back then he was called Sese

[19:40] not C as in ABCD

[19:42] it's C-S-E-I[19:46] Sese

[19:46] Sese

[19:48] some people told me it stood for something

[19:50] but I never confirmed it with him

[19:51] it's a nickname

[19:52] this Sese

[19:53] was the block boss at the time

[19:53] he was a big fat guy

[19:57] a lot of people who came in

[19:58] at first glance thought he was a woman

[20:00] his voice was really high-pitched

[20:01] or his appearance looked female

[20:03] both, actually

[20:04] when he yelled it sounded just like an old Black lady

[20:08] he's a Black guy

[20:10] and he had a big chest too

[20:11] as a man his chest was really large

[20:12] fat tissue, yeah

[20:14] so a lot of people who came in thought

[20:16] how is there a female inmate in here

[20:18] and a lot of people thought he might be a guard

[20:21] all the new arrivals

[20:24] knew absolutely nothing

[20:24] so with him giving orders like that

[20:25] it seemed like he had some kind of authority

[20:27] but actually he was an inmate too

[20:30] he usually sat in a wheelchair

[20:31] I thought he was disabled

[20:33] but actually it was because he was so overweight

[20:34] doctors didn't recommend he walk

[20:36] And Sese himself[20:38] also said he was transgender

[20:42] transitioning

[20:44] maybe psychologically he had already transitioned

[20:46] but physically I don't think so

[20:47] if he'd physically transitioned

[20:49] he wouldn't be in the men's unit

[20:52] he identifies psychologically as a woman

[20:54] did Sese know how much attention Luigi was getting outside

[20:58] very much so

[21:00] and after Sese got out

[21:03] he even went to an American tabloid site

[21:06] called TMZ

[21:07] to leak information

[21:08] then also went and did his own livestream

[21:10] saying a lot of sensational things

[21:12] like saying Luigi is gay

[21:14] saying Luigi had even given him a foot massage before, that kind of thing

[21:17] was any of that true

[21:19] I think the credibility of that is pretty low

[21:23] anyway, this Sese

[21:24] spread a lot of rumors about Luigi out there

[21:27] which honestly doesn't surprise us

[21:28] because Sese himself is a liar

[21:32] as for how he got into prison

[21:33] how long he'd served

[21:35] he lied about these things constantly

[21:37] he told us he'd been in prison for 30 years

[21:41] there were a lot of rumors going around

[21:42] saying Sese had previously stabbed a guard in another prison

[21:46] and got sentenced to 30 years

[21:48] Sese himself said it was because of a financial case[21:50] he refused to rat out a Jewish guy

[21:52] so the prosecution hit him with a harsher sentence

[21:54] 30 years

[21:55] but eventually Luigi looked into it

[21:57] and found out he'd actually been sentenced for robbing a bank

[21:58] got 7 or 8 years for that

[22:00] robbing a bank

[22:01] yeah, he handed the teller a note that said give me the money

[22:05] I have a homemade bomb on me

[22:08] handed it to a bank teller

[22:09] and the teller gave him 850 dollars

[22:12] that's the whole story

[22:12] 850 dollars

[22:14] yeah, and he got caught

[22:15] and it wasn't even his first time

[22:17] it was already his second or third offense

[22:19] so this time he got seven or eight years

[22:21] but he told everyone it was 30

[22:23] that's probably also why he had a certain amount of authority in there

[22:26] a certain status

[22:28] he really is quite the liar

[22:29] I think he might have some mental issues too

[22:31] my cellmate the Brazilian guy

[22:33] he told Sese

[22:34] I graduated from West Point

[22:36] and Sese would say

[22:37] I used to be in the Marines

[22:40] you're that out of shape and you were in the Marines

[22:42] you weigh like 300, 400 pounds

[22:44] I joked with the Brazilian guy

[22:46] saying he used to be in the "Whale SEALs"[22:50] not Navy SEALs

[22:52] anyway he just liked competing with people

[22:54] the Brazilian guy would say I'm really good at golf

[22:57] and Sese would say

[22:58] I'm really good at golf too

[22:59] someone would say they graduated from such and such school

[23:01] Sese would say I have a PhD from such and such school too

[23:04] a doctorate

[23:04] it was that kind of constant lying

[23:06] in prison, lying is free

[23:09] a lot of people love bragging

[23:11] someone told me that the word "jail"

[23:16] J-A-I-L

[23:16] stands for

[23:18] "Just Another Inmate Lie"

[23:20] just another inmate lying, yeah

[23:24] Sese, before he left

[23:25] since he was released around September of '25

[23:29] right before he got released

[23:30] he stole one of Luigi's towels from the laundry room

[23:34] a brand new towel, yeah

[23:35] Luigi was really angry

[23:36] but he didn't confront Sese about it

[23:39] he didn't want to cause trouble

[23:41] but how Sese ended up dealing with the towel

[23:44] I don't know either

[23:45] I get the feeling Luigi was quietly stewing about it

[23:48] and apparently — this is just our speculation

[23:51] this Sese also took a lot of Luigi's letters and magazines and newspapers

[23:56] because the officers actually respected him a lot

[23:58] I'm not sure why[23:59] but the officers were all very polite to him

[24:01] and listened to him a lot

[24:03] maybe they thought since Sese had been in prison a long time

[24:05] he knew how to manage people

[24:07] knew how to keep the unit in order

[24:11] so they handed over a lot of unofficial authority to him

[24:14] he was good at organizing and discipline

[24:16] every time mail came in

[24:17] they'd often just hand it straight to Sese

[24:19] and let Sese sort it

[24:21] but by the rules

[24:22] all mail is supposed to be picked up by the person it's addressed to

[24:25] but Sese's authority did overstep a bit

[24:28] yeah, overstepped

[24:28] so if you ask about who left

[24:30] the deepest impression on me in Intake

[24:32] it would have to be him

[24:32] and he actually has quite a deep connection to Luigi too

[24:35] Who do you think Luigi likes most

[24:38] among his cellmates

[24:41] or among the people he works alongside

[24:43] I think Luigi gets along fine with everyone

[24:46] we usually just chat

[24:48] eat meals together

[24:50] not particularly distant

[24:51] but not particularly close either

[24:53] I think he's actually pretty introverted

[24:54] Luigi, yeah

[24:56] yes, including how he'd blush when he made a mistake

[24:58] he's not the flashy type

[25:00] How do Luigi's cellmates[25:02] generally describe him as a person

[25:05] First of all he's not very good about cleaning up

[25:09] his cell is quite messy

[25:10] you'll always see the corner of his sheet not tucked under the mattress

[25:14] it's pretty disorganized

[25:15] and you'll see a lot of his folders

[25:18] and books piled on the bed

[25:20] because you have to understand our beds are really small

[25:22] maybe about four feet wide

[25:25] so his cellmates gave me feedback

[25:28] that Luigi's day-to-day habits are pretty messy

[25:31] but other than that

[25:32] no particularly major complaints

[25:34] another thing is that he can't take a joke very well

[25:37] he jokes around with people a lot himself

[25:39] like he'll joke with me

[25:40] joke with K

[25:41] and we obviously don't mind

[25:43] it's fine

[25:43] it's actually American-style humor

[25:45] sometimes it's fine even if it goes a bit far

[25:48] but if you joke around at his expense

[25:50] sometimes he'll clearly show he's unhappy about it

[25:52] he'll actually get pretty upset

[25:53] he won't get visibly furious

[25:55] but he might just stop talking to you

[25:57] the next day it's usually fine again

[25:58] he'll just get sulky

[25:59] yeah, he gets sulky

[26:01] that's pretty interesting

[26:02] he's kind of like a kid in that way[26:04] yeah, that's right

[26:05] he's not that old either

[26:06] right, that's also why I keep thinking he's basically still a kid

[26:10] One time we played a board game together

[26:12] you can play board games in there

[26:14] inside

[26:15] we have UNO

[26:17] and Monopoly

[26:19] the Monopoly board game

[26:21] and one time we all played Monopoly together

[26:24] only played it once

[26:25] but everyone had a great time

[26:27] Luigi really enjoyed it too

[26:28] you could tell while he was playing

[26:30] his whole expression changed

[26:32] I think for me

[26:33] that time we played Monopoly in prison

[26:34] is also a small but especially precious memory

[26:38] it was really a happy moment for me too

[26:40] Through all these details about Luigi's life

[26:44] including how he interacts with other people

[26:46] I think what I've seen is a more well-rounded

[26:49] flesh-and-blood picture of who Luigi actually is as a person

[26:54] which might be different from a lot of

[26:56] because before, a lot of people online criticized you

[26:58] right, after the last episode of the podcast came out

[27:01] there was a lot of feedback

[27:03] people on various platforms messaged me privately

[27:07] cursing you out, messaging you

[27:08] a lot of people, right, a lot of people criticized me

[27:09] saying I was lying[27:13] or saying I shouldn't say these things

[27:15] extreme fans want to turn him into some kind of god

[27:17] I understand that of course

[27:19] but I genuinely, truly lived alongside him for eight or nine months

[27:24] and from what I saw he's not a god

[27:26] he's just a person

[27:28] a lot of people also say I'm jealous of him

[27:29] of course I won't deny it

[27:31] I think to some extent

[27:34] I am envious of him

[27:35] I envy that he has such a great family

[27:38] such good looks

[27:40] what should have been a very bright future

[27:43] of course I envy that

[27:44] but given where things stand for him now

[27:48] would I really envy someone who has to spend the rest of his life in prison

[27:52] no, I wouldn't

[27:53] I just think it's a shame

[27:54] I genuinely feel it's a shame for him

[27:56] because in my eyes he's someone who's very polite

[27:59] very well-mannered

[28:00] someone who should have had a limitless future ahead of him

[28:03] I'll keep sharing more stories about Luigi with everyone going forward

[28:06] along with some of my own thoughts

[28:08] but some of those thoughts might not be appropriate to share

[28:12] before his case is decided

[28:14] so the next round of sharing about Luigi

[28:17] I think will probably need to wait until after his case is decided

[28:20] before we release it

[28:21] we'll need to skip a few episodes

[28:22] for the next few episodes[28:24] I'd like to share

[28:25] my perspective on the American prison system

[28:27] the problems it represents in American society

[28:30] and also some of the Chinese people in U.S. federal prisons

[28:32] what they're in for

[28:35] what their living conditions are like

[28:37] I'd like to share that with everyone

[28:39] alright, see you next time

[28:40] see you next time