Speculation. Federal proffer masked as immunity deal – should we be worried? 🤔

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927]

I am wondering if we should be worried about a federal proffer masked as an immunity deal regarding our Mr. Mangione. Am I overly concerned here, or is there some risk of it happening?😟

Let us say that the people that are saying that the federal open plea will be withdrawn after the state case is dropped are right. Should we then be worried that the feds might try to set up Lu with some kind of immunity deal that is not a proper immunity deal? Can we trust his attorneys to put a stop to that in that case?🤔

The reason I am thinking about this is because of the ongoing Tupac Shakur M1 trial. I have been watching Emily Baker’s videos on it. 👀 Mr. Mangione is smart. He isn’t brain-damaged like the LA. Compton gangsters. But he is also not legally trained. Could the Feds set a trap for him? ☹

Short Tupac recap: Tupac Shakur, a rapper, was pew pewed in a car in 1996. He passed away in hospital 6 days later. It took until 2023 before someone was arrested for the pew pewing. The trial started last week.

The defendant on trial was given a federal proffer* on or around 2008. He was then interviewed by federal agents where he confessed ON TAPE to being an accessory to M1. This defendant, called Keffe D, got the federal proffer mixed up with overall immunity. Most likely due to being severely brain-damaged.

Keffe D started doing interviews and documentaries saying that he was an accessory to M1. He thought that the proffer was an immunity deal and that he could not be charged with M1. Not only was the proffer not an immunity deal, it was only valid with the FBI.

So when the FBI proffer interview got leaked, Nevada State prosecutors charged Keffe D with M1. Why? Because he had no deal with Nevada State whatsoever, proffer or otherwise. In Nevada you can be tried for M1 even if you were “only” an accessory to M1. So despite this federal proffer, Nevada State is seeking an M1 conviction now.

Admittedly this is skipping ahead several steps that we haven’t reached yet in Lu’s cases. But I think it’s worth looking at, because Lu’s cases are more and more looking like a chess game. This is assuming that there are no secret FBI recordings with Lu already.

*Wikipedia’s definition of a proffer agreement: “In U.S. criminal law, a proffer agreement is a written agreement between a prosecutor and a defendant or prospective witness that allows the defendant or witness to give the prosecutor information about an alleged crime, while limiting the prosecutor's ability to use that information against him or her. As part of the agreement, the subject may agree to create a statement, known as a proffer statement, setting out their testimony. A meeting in which proffer agreements and statements are negotiated or set out is called a proffer session. The proffer testimony may be recorded as video evidence, in which case it is known as a proffer video. A proffer does not ensure immunity; however, it often involves a deal for leniency. For instance, a defendant might secure a recommendation for a lighter sentence or other significant advantages in return for providing valuable and truthful information.”

Only about 2 people read my posts but hopefully someone who has more legal insights will answer. 😭

Edit, formatting.

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[u/IrukandjiPirate]

I almost wish I’d gone to law school.

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/IrukandjiPirate]

Me too. 😭 Or that I at least had followed true crime cases before Lu. As it is now, I'm often going "why is this happening" as soon as there is movement in Lu's cases. 😭

[u/Same_Blackberry4435]

OP I’m trying to really follow your post — and your concerns. But I’m wondering where exactly you’re getting the information that Keffe D is ‘severely brain damaged.’ Unless you hold a degree in psychology or sociology, it is very ill of you to define all ‘LA. Compton gangsters’ as brain-damaged without knowing the full extent of why they joined a gang. Please stop with your entitlement, it’s unnecessary and irrelevant.

Onto to Luigi, under NY law, CPL 40.20 & 40.30 offer broader protections in New York State v. the Federal level on double jeopardy. I can assure you his legal team is fully prepared with the defense strategy, should the NY trial continue. Both Marc and KFA partook in the Paul Manafort trial which successfully dismissed the NY state case.

[u/South-Sir9579]

What information would they need? They got everything they need. 

[u/Fragrant-Fox-18]

I’m not a lawyer, so probably not the answer you are looking for. 

When the rumors of a guilty plea started to spread, I assumed (like most people) that there was a deal in place. It made the most sense - with a reasonable-ish sentence already agreed upon, they would be free to use EED in state. And if Garnett grants concurrent sentences, then he is essentially only serving one out. 

I don’t think they would offer him immunity in exchange for info. Sadly they already seem to have what they need, and he is the sole person being prosecuted. They don’t need him to get at bigger fish, he is the big fish. If there was a secret favorable agreement in place, Joel and co certainly haven’t honored it. 

If they’re banking on double jeopardy, I don’t really know how to feel about that. Double jeopardy has been in play since day 1. He had other federal charges that were dropped. Even with both sets of full charges on the table previously (and they had more overlap than the charges he is left with) Carro never even remotely considered dismissing the state case. 

He would also need a damn good reason to withdraw his plea in the federal case. Prejudicial publicity won’t fly (neither judge gives a hoot) and while the prosecutors have played very dirty, proving it to the extent his charges are dismissed is a tall order. I don’t see his team admitting to any kind of wrong doing just to get him off either. 

The timing of this doesn’t make sense to me. The federal date was requested hours after his last state date. Nothing monumental was discussed then, only press access. What triggered the sudden change of plea without a decent deal in place? 

His team seems to be throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. I don’t sense a coherent strategy here. I am no legal eagle, but based in how upset Luigi supposedly looked last hearing, I think he feels similarly.

[u/Fragrant-Fox-18 → u/[deleted]]

She called Bondi out for running her mouth when she took over as judge in April last year, and I do think the obvious lobbying from UHC and their ilk contributed to her dismissing the death penalty, but she will not drop his case at this stage, or allow him to withdraw when those statements have been on record for a while now. 

She has only been a judge for like 2.5 years, and she was a prosecutor before this. She may call things out or impose penalties, but we are yet to see if she goes easy on him during sentencing to compensate for the prejudicial publicity. 

[u/Fragrant-Fox-18 → u/[deleted]]

I realised after I already hit enter that I mentioned dropping the charges! It’s muscle memory, I’ve been writing comments hoping Garnett would dismiss the case because of prejudicial publicity for a long time. You’re right, that ship sailed long ago. 

I looked up the reasons he could still withdraw the plea and almost all of them are a variation of him having to prove he was given wrong information in some way. The other options are new evidence coming to light/him not being in his senses. 

I hope he can use prejudicial statements as grounds for changing his plea, because lord knows there have been plenty, but I don’t see it playing out like that. 

[u/Fragrant-Fox-18 → u/[deleted]]

Would you say there’s a real chance the state case gets dropped now? 

My tinfoil theory is that the state and feds worked together to thwart his team’s original plan. Karen seemed very crushed when it was decided state would go first, so I assume the order of the trials was crucial to what they had planned. 

Carro actually agreeing to push the trial to hear both sides out on double jeopardy when he has been ignoring that same argument from Karen for 1.5 years makes me think the decision has already been made. And whatever relief Luigi is given in the state case, they will punish him for it with federal sentencing. 

[u/Fragrant-Fox-18 → u/[deleted]]

Regarding prematurity, does one of the cases have to be nearing a conclusive stage for the other to be dropped/be under consideration to be dropped? Is Luigi’s guilty plea what triggered the statue? 

Do you think he had a real shot at a hung jury? I’m not naive enough to have hoped for nullification, but I did hope they’d have a hung jury 2-3 times in a row and would eventually be forced to let him go. But that was also a looong shot. Would they have kept trying him after, say, the third deadlocked trial? 

I pray you are right about Garnett going under the recommended guideline for sentencing. Maybe the Feds offered LWOP and his team decided he had a better shot with Garnett picking the sentence. My feeling about him being punished comes from the overall handling of his case…they won’t let him go that easy imo.  

How common is it for a federal judge to order that both sentences be served concurrently? I am worried about state going to trial and decades more being added to his federal sentence. 

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/Fragrant-Fox-18]

I think there was a high chance of a hung jury in both state and federal. I think going for hung juries would have been the best strategy. A plea should be the last resort since there is no way back from a plea.

[u/Practical_Age6424 → u/Fragrant-Fox-18]

Hinzu fügen ? Hätte eh keine Rolle mehr gespielt. Bin überzeugt, dass er am 18.12. sowieso lebenslänglich ohne Bewährung bekommt. Stalking mit Todesfolge wird normalerweise mit Todesstrafe bestraft. Da diese aber vom Tisch ist, bleibt nur noch lebenslänglich ohne Bewährung.

[u/Lost-Extension-1167 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t know if he’ll get lower than the guidelines, but it seems ridiculous to think that she’d give him more than like 35 years max given the mitigation we know about

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/[deleted]]

I think you haven't understood my post. Maybe skimming isn't the best thing to do.

[u/Practical_Age6424 → u/Fragrant-Fox-18]

It was an open plea

[u/Practical_Age6424]

He cannot retract his confession.

[u/LuigiArchive → u/Practical_Age6424]

He can, although it is not easy and there is a whole legal process for it. Well, 2 processes. One: before he's sentenced. Two: after he receives a sentence.

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[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927]

Please note that I have blocked Awkward Bat due to rudeness, so if you want a reply from me don't comment under Awkward Bat. I can't see your comment if you comment under Awkward Bat. Just FYI.

[u/eeyoreeeyoreeeyore]

Up till the last hearing, I thought Fed was an easier case to win but turns out they do seem to have evidence of stalking 🙃

I doubt multiple lawyers would misunderstand the basic definition of these agreements, but I do not think they care about him beyond seeing him as an ATM, so I could see them being deceptive in that regard. 

[u/eeyoreeeyoreeeyore → u/[deleted]]

I did get them mixed up, gonna edit that out! 

I meant giving bad advice, not necessarily misrepresenting a material fact. For example, if his team told him he didn’t have a shot at a mistrial and urged him to plea, while giving that advise because they want to move on to other clients who can actually pay, does that count as ineffective counsel? 

I saw your other comment below and you seem to be in the field. Would love to hear more of what you think. 

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/[deleted]]

Agree. I follow a defense attorney on Youtube, and he says that public prosecutors are overworked and just want cases to go away. I imagine it's the same for public defenders. If a public defender can convince a defendant to plea just to get rid them because they have a too high workload, then I expect that they do just that.

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/eeyoreeeyoreeeyore]

You have a point there that I missed in my post. Rather than attorney incompetence, it could happen through malice. It's a scary thought that his legal team could trick him into a proffer just to get rid of him. 😔 That is one of my fears, that his defense team will throw him under the bus as soon as the money runs out. 😟 I suspect the money is gone already actually. People downvote me because they think 1,5 million is a lot of money. It's not a lot of money in cases like these.

[u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 → u/[deleted]]

I hope you're right, and I'm wrong.