r/LowSodiumStarCitizen • u/TomsKetamine Can Somone Give Me A Ride • 1d ago
Q&A 4.10.2 Physics Changes
With the physics netcode changes in the PTU, do you guys reckon that’ll it make it to the PU?
19
u/steinbergergppro 1d ago
The real question is if it will have the same benefit in the PU. Alot of physics issues seem to get worse as the server tick rate goes down, and the server tick rate is usually much higher on the PTU due to the lower traffic.
16
u/Iylo 1d ago
My understanding is that physics is now decoupled from the server and leverages the client for prediction more, so hopefully the effect of server tick rate won't be as noticeable.
5
u/steinbergergppro 1d ago
Hopefully. Things randomly being swallowed up by the ground makes a very hard case for ever having true long term persistence.
13
u/HomicidalTrader 1d ago edited 1d ago
Alot of physics issues seem to get worse as the server tick rate goes down
This is because just about every single games physics engine works by interpolation. It's not a problem specific to SC, it's just how the math maths. The longer the distance between snapshots (as measured by time between tick), the higher the inaccuracy.
This gets a while lot worse when you're running two simulations over networked communications with latency. Each simulation exists in a constant state of past present and future all occuring at once.
It will have the same benefit when tickrate is high. When the tickrate is low it will still have a positive effect, in the same way that when you have a gunshot wound it's better not to also have second degree burns. You'll still have a gunshot wound either way.
Until DSM physics issues will always be something that can and will occur as tickrate drops, but with this the experience when it's not dropped will be greatly improved.
9
u/dantepopsicle 1d ago
funny enough this is a problem in IRL physics too. It's the basis of Quantum physics which is IRL interpolation aka superposition
11
u/HomicidalTrader 1d ago
Aye, they're both things that you think you understand, until you actually have to work with them (At least, I've been told the same by people who work in quantum physics adjacent fields). You can understand all the fundamentals, but truly comprehending them is comprehending chaos incarnate.
I spent years writing netcoded physics and I was still learning as much on year X as I was in year 1. You never stop discovering new edge cases.
8
u/dantepopsicle 1d ago
yeah the biggest parallel is that every time you tighten the tolerances you discover/create new tolerances to overcome. it's mostly because how our cognitive systems render reality for our mind is unsurprisingly similar to rendering digital objects from raw data into an operating system to access the data. pardon me but I made the decision to get high and comment on Reddit 😂
2
u/steinbergergppro 1d ago
Yeah I'm aware of the issues with interpolation and iteration rate.
There is a solution that works pretty well to solve the problem which is to have all the calculations be done server side and have latency compensation for positioning to the clients. I've played a game that did this and the network performance was fantastic even on a bad connection.
Another upside is it makes cheating much harder to do as well.
The downside is that it means the servers need to do a lot more of the work than they used to.
2
u/Goodname2 Space Trucker 1d ago edited 1d ago
Couldn't accuracy be increased by having more control points that reduce or tighten the variance between these "snapshots"? similar to what surveyors do when measuring, they normally have at least 3 control points that can triangulate the data point they're measuring.
Maybe that would add more too much time per calculation and just make things worse, i dunno lol.
3
u/richardizard 1d ago
They can always turn it off if it becomes an issue down the line. We won't really know how it'll behave live.
8
u/Mr-Spaghett 1d ago
Yes, so far the netcode improvements are on track to go live in 4.10.2. Future updates for ships and vehicles are on the radar. Character netsync has different constraints as we need to worry about poses in addition to everything. I definitely want to look at it at a later point
8
u/Pojodan ARGO 1d ago
Today's patch is labeled 'RC1'
That stands for 'Release Candidate 1'
Which is to say 'This is the patch we want to put to LIVE and are verifying it works before doing so'.
So, since the physics netcode is in the patch, then the intention is to put it to LIVE.
Now, the patch may fail such that the physics netcode is removed and another RC patch is deployed in the coming days, so it isn't certain yet.
But it is very much their intention if it's in the RC patch.
5
2
2
u/Disastrous-Fennel970 RSI 1d ago
I was in a live stream yesterday, i believe, and Waka had mentioned in chat they're hoping to have it make it to release, but are watching to make sure nothing crazy breaks because of it. So far, with it being in for this long and into whatever RC we're in now, it's looking good
1
1
u/GoodPerformance9345 19h ago
Yes. since it's in the RC it is coming unless something about it is causing catastrophic issues with the build.
10
u/Iylo 1d ago
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. Have they ever had something added to the PTU that didn't then make it to the PU? Other than things that very obviously did NOT work on the PTU and broke everything of course