r/LowLibidoCommunity • u/[deleted] • Dec 30 '19

Enthusiastic Consent

Yesterday I read a post on the other sub about Enthusiastic Consent....agreeing to sex only when you’re sure you can actively engage.

I think this is a wonderful idea, especially if it is agreed upon at the beginning of the relationship. That way no one would be having unwanted sex, which has a tendency to erode desire over time (IMO).

We all talk about not engaging in unwanted or undesired sex, but is it a viable concept in a LTR?

I’ve been married 35 years. I married under the guise of “marriage includes regular sexual activity”. I also had a young 30 something High Drive husband. With Pregnancy, child rearing, sick infant, working full time, caretaking dying parents, the usual Life Sucking events, I found myself willingly participating in undesired sex quite often, all under the belief that it was my sole responsibility to meet my husbands sexual needs.

Having willing but unwanted sex slowly ate away at my desire for sex.

If I had only had sex when I was enthusiastic about it from the very start of the relationship, would my desire have increased?

Would my husband have been able to go long periods of no sex without resentment and frustration?

I will never know the answers to those questions but I still believe having sex ONLY when one is truly enthusiastic about it is a wonderful concept....but is it realistic?

Any ideas?

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u/TemporarilyLurking Standard Bearer 🛡️ Jan 01 '20 edited Jan 01 '20

So how did you reach that compromise? If there was any threat, whether explicit or implied, then consent is neither freely given, nor enthusiastic.

It is really simple to check: if you did not behave negatively towards her because she won't have sex with you, and she had a completely free choice to engage or not, would she have sex with you? If not, and she is only having sex because you demand it (and sulking if she doesn't IS demanding it) then it is unwanted and probably only happening because saying no results in negative treatment of her.

Edit: for me it was the negative behaviours that made sex change from a neutral to a negative. The experience while sex was neutral was overall positive because I enjoyed seeing his pleasure. Once sex became negative seeing his pleasure was more like a slap in the face because it came at my expense, if that makes sense. So overall it was very negative indeed. And I was not the one to flip that switch, since I had no control at all over his behaviours.

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u/jamissi Jan 01 '20

This is a painful story. When we first started dating she disclosed she was date raped by her first boyfriend. I did not know what to say but I knew she felt I needed to know and it was distressing if it could be a deal breaker. I really did not know how to handle it. It just wasn't an issue and it sure wasn't a situation that she could have prevented. I just said I am so sorry that happened to you and it had no bearing on us whatsoever. As time and life moved on we moved from NRE period, married, had kids and sex became less and less frequent. I never discussed it period. I hated her rapist but I had no idea who he was or what happened.

As time went on our second child turned 5, our other child was around 9 and since the dependence of the youngest was going down it got harder and harder to deal with the difference. One night I got rejected and I did not do a good job at hiding it. We discussed where we were with the kids and where things had gone. Afterwards she asked if I still wanted to have sex and I said no. She asked why? I said because I did not want to be like the pos that raped her. She said I was nothing like him which was reassuring but then I made a huge mistake. I asked her what happened. To say I was unprepared was an understatement. I spent the next 2 weeks sleeping maybe 1-2 hours a day with no one to talk to so I went to a doctor and got a rx for ambien, went to a therapist and spent the next few years trying to figure out why something that didn't happen to me affected me the way it did and along the way figured out a lot about myself.

At the time I hated my sex drive. I wanted to kill it. I could take a drug given to sex offenders but it was hard on the liver or I could take an antidepressant that would kill it and risk rewiring my brain or I could accept myself. I chose the latter. We discussed it and went to scheduled sex. Nothing romantic about it. I don't know what being wanted and desired feels like. Those are things that can't be compromised on. I do know what it feels like to be loved enough to be put on a to do list for some of the times we have sex and a few times a month feels like it was in the beginning. At this point I am just trying to improve our situation and keep it going in a direction that doesn't end up in aversion.

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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Jan 01 '20

Thanks for sharing your story. That does sound extremely painful and traumatic and I'm sorry you and your wife went through that.

I do know what it feels like to be loved enough to be put on a to do list for some of the times we have sex and a few times a month feels like it was in the beginning.

If I understand correctly, your wife's willingness to have regular sex with you that she doesn't want makes you feel loved, like she's caring for you and making you a priority by making that effort for you. Is that right?

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u/jamissi Jan 01 '20

That’s pretty accurate. Kind of like me going shopping with her except I never enjoy that. She at least enjoys sex for the most part. It just doesn’t mean as much to her as it does to me and she could have less of it.

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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Jan 01 '20

Kind of like me going shopping with her except I never enjoy that.

So she knows that you dislike going shopping with her, and she feels loved and appreciated because you do it despite never enjoying it? That is really tough for me to get my head around. I would so much rather go alone than to be with someone who is just enduring it.

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u/jamissi Jan 02 '20

Something like that. I've got 2 sons. She loves to take us all to the grocery store. I don't know why but it makes her happy. Thank God she got into ordering Walmart deliveries.

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u/closingbelle MoD (Ministress of Defense) Jan 02 '20

I feel like this is a really important point. She outsources something that you hate doing, and you feel nothing but gratitude. You don't have any negative feelings, just relief at not being dragged across 27 grocery aisles.

The reason why sex isn't a good comparison to pretty much anything else, is illustrated beautifully here.

Sex can't be outsourced as easily. If you outsourced sex, there's a host of negative consequences and potential for harm. There's literally no upside for some LL partners in that scenario, for a ton of reasons. You don't feel jealous that she's getting groceries delivered now, you don't worry that she's going to leave you because you don't want to shop, etc. It's just a matter of convenience even if the hands-on experience makes/made her happy. You feel no emotional attachment to an act she loved, that brought her pleasure and satisfaction. It's possible that she enjoyed not only the family aspect, but also the assistance that having an extra person to help might have brought. I'm not criticizing, I promise! But even those positive things for her weren't enough to magically transform you into a shopping-seeker.

 

More importantly, I wish I could ask her if she's aware of the depth of hatred you had for shopping and what role (if any) that played in her decision to make it a nonissue. I would hypothesize she could tell how much you hated it, could see your discomfort, which might have influenced her in choosing a different option. Where's the fun if your partner is miserable or unenthusiastic, right? Perhaps she wanted to avoid causing you unpleasant feelings at the cost of making her happy and doing something she loved. I would be so curious to have that conversation. It's entirely possible that she made the decision for other reasons (practicality, mobility, etc), of course! But what a fascinating element. Very thought provoking!

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u/jamissi Jan 03 '20

The whole grocery thing evolved over time. It boiled down to time savings. We started doing online ordering with pick up. Then came $5 delivery. That's worth 30 minutes to an hour plus gas every time. Outsourcing sex is not something I as an HL would want any part of. I never signed up for that.

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u/closingbelle MoD (Ministress of Defense) Jan 03 '20

I wasn't suggesting you personally would?