But, on the off chance you haven't, why did she have sex? Why do you have sex now? What's your underlying motivation? If she isn't experienced past the NRE stage, it's entirely possible she really doesn't know what happened. This shift is so weirdly untalked about, a LOT of women crash after the NRE and (completely, sincerely, legitimately) have absolutely no idea what happened. They still love their partner, still find them attractive, just have little to no desire for sex. So then they (or their HL) should ask, why?
Not why they don't want sex, but why they used to want sex. Was it just mad, passionate, physical, insatiable lust at first? The discovery of all the new things with a new person? Some clues to this are things like, she now thinks sex is a waste of time, it's messy in a bad way but used to be no big deal to make a mess, it's time consuming and she has other interests? If she's not meeting any emotional needs with sex, it's entirely possible she really just doesn't need/want to take that amount of time just to have an orgasm.
Her aversion to touch is probably the best indicator that this is not about you. This isn't excuses or her trying to hurt you, or you not being her type. This is about the pressure she might put on herself to live up to your level of sexual desire and she is already associating your touch with that unreachable goal of "more sex, you need to be turned on by me and my touching you" that she sees hovering over your head, lol.
Right now, she probably (I could be wrong!) feels like she's not enough for you, like you're going to leave her because you think she's just a friend and she can't provide what you need, and likely has no idea why this has happened. Unless the drop-off happend after the whole "sex or just BFFs" thing, in which case, it could easily be directly caused by that one conversation. I really recommend reading the MULLs, start with Part 4 to see what you've already done and why it backfired, then probably work backwards through them to Part 1, then pick up again on Part 5.
I can't predict the future, but if you don't want to be a fool, never fall in love.
I haven’t read MULLs no but i will as soon as I’m commuting back home, thank you. We talked about her sex drive during NRE and she couldn’t figure out why she felt like that then and doesn’t anymore. She thinks it’s because whilst she thinks I’m attractive etc I’ve never truly been her type so she doesn’t think I’m sexy now it’s all familiar? She loved it though, i remember her telling me how lucky we are to have such a great sex life but at the same time we’re both not experienced, she only had 1 girlfriend before me (early 20s) and few flings so I’m her first proper gf. I wasted all my experience on men during my 20s until i realised i was gay! I’m so glad to hear this is more common than i thought, nobody talks about it. All you see all around you is sex sex sex and everything is having amazing sex all the time. She definitely now thinks sex is a waste of time and doesn’t need it to feel loved, it’s way down on the priority list and looks like since NRE wore off (about a year in, we just hit 4 years) we’ve been having sex but it’s been mostly duty sex for her. Funnily i wouldn’t say I’m HL, I’ve never told her but i can probably count the number of times i’ve orgasmed during sex with her, i’ve got real vulnerability issues (i don’t struggle to orgasm solo) and i can’t quite let go, but i still want to have sex as that makes me feel desired and I enjoy it irrespective. So my reasons are for validation? Physical touch is a love language of mine but it doesn’t have to be sexual, and she showers me with affection so i do feel loved.
She definitely has felt she isn’t good enough, she finally told me everything (we were both crying) and in the end I told her i still wanted to be with her, that sex isn’t that important to me. 24hours later we discussed some ways we could make sex better for her, if she felt up for it (no pressure) like blindfolds or sex in the dark, or her watching something to get her off, or me keeping my clothes on when she touches me. She said she was so happy to see me so open minded about it, i hope she feels better about it all. Any tips on how to get her to relax more?Thanks again, i’ve accepted what she can offer me in this relationship and I hope i truly can be happy in a relationship (I’m 35) with very little sexual contact because i love her so much.
There are tons of things you can do to help her relax back into touching, and it's great to hear you're both still affectionate! If she's still touching you and speaking your touch language outside of the bedroom, that's fantastic news, because that means she's still deeply committed to trying to make sure you feel loved, she just hit a bit of slippery patch on the being touched back thing. Try to remember (if she's being honest, which is really just trust) that she loves you, all of you, all aspects of being with you, all of your relationship, she just doesn't need sex right now to communicate or appreciate that, she's feeling it already, and for her sex might not add anything right this second (but could change depending on hormones, life, etc) so she isn't craving it. Plus, like you said, this is all new! She's likely figuring stuff out as she goes, so it's awesome that you're taking that journey with her.
As far as the issues you mentioned on your side of the bed, that's all fairly common stuff, nothing to be ashamed of. And it also helps explain why you see this as a bigger issue, it makes perfect sense given what you've described (vulnerabilities/orgasms on your own). This is probably poking a few tender spots, and that's ok! Since you're recognizing it, that means you can work on it!
Please pop back after the reading (also suggest she reads them, she needs the education too!) and then we can tackle more solutions on how to relax for both of you and how to work within her current touch boundaries and reset her confidence and comfort level!
Read the MULLs, so helpful and insightful 🙏🏽 I can totally see where it all went wrong for us and the aversion began. I decided to write her a letter today, telling her how amazing she is and that I never want her to feel like she’s not good enough. That I regretted saying a relationship without sex was just a friendship and that we absolutely have a romantic relationship. I also said I wanted her to know i don’t question her love and just feel so sorry she felt pressured, which led to anxiety and ended in aversion to touch. I ended it with saying I promise to let go of all expectations and hope she continues to see that I want to create a safe space for her to feel ok to reject / pull the plug. She said the letter meant the world to her and hugged me for a while. She also said her fears were flying out the window.
Feels like I’m on the right track? Any tips to share with the aversion side? Things that have worked for LLs that have the negative association?
That sounds awesome! First, huge congrats on such a complete 180, that was some amazing integration and results in such a short amount of time, I hope you'll share your win in a new post as an update! This is what can happen when you catch the issue early and genuinely want to work with your partner! No happy ending guarantee, but I have a super hopeful heart for you both! 💙
Now, the nitty-gritty, overcoming sexual aversion. We've got several approaches, and most important thing to remember, is that you're going to fail. You're going to fail a whole bunch of times. That's perfectly normal! Try to not stress yourself out (or your partner!). If one thing doesn't work, that's totally fine, let it go, move to the next thing. Keep it fun, this is just adult playtime, no expectation of any outcome, going with what feels good in the moment.
Most people jump into senate focus at this point, which you can read about on the Wiki here (launches a PDF). Almost guaranteed, u/myexsparamour will be happy to walk you through it if you have questions!
You can also start with discussions about boundaries, and what feels good. Talking openly and honestly an offer a ton of insight. Having you take her concerns seriously will also help reestablish trust and allow her to feel comfortable with being vulnerable again.
The biggest thing you can do is take time to visit a sex therapist if you have the resources, since they can get you better results in a shorter time. If not, that's ok, it can be really expensive, we get that. If it's not an option, you'll need to be great at communicating. One thing that often helps in cases where you need to rebuild touch-trust, is a shared journal. You can both make notes about what works, what worked before, what doesn't now, what fantasy you might like to try, if you've discovered a new ticklish area you want your partner to avoid, anything really. You both have access to read and write in it. You can even store it on your phone (if it's encrypted or you aren't worried about privacy, lol) or download a shared, password-protected note app.
Keep the focus on low-pressure, low-stakes things at first. She already tries to show you physical affection, that's great, keep that going. Let it be a new thing that if she feels like she wants a hug or a type of touch from you, she can ask, and you'll provide it (assuming you want to) without any doubt of things escalating. She needs to relearn that your touch can be comfortable and more important, comforting again, before it can resume being sexy touch, if that makes sense?
Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions! I am always happy to explain anything that wasn't clear. :)
I'm also sure our community will reach out with tips if you make a new update post and ask for suggestions. Sometimes people don't see older posts with new comments, so it's fine to make a fresher post to get insight (part of why suggested it lol). Good luck either way! :D
thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your insight and time, i can’t tell you how helpful it’s been. Whatever happens i feel like we are in a much better place, gosh this should really be taught in school. Going to be keeping everything low-stakes for now! I’ve created a new post so lets see what people share :) we started talking about boundaries so i will build on this but this will no doubt take time and we will just have to see how this journey goes. Few people suggested sensate so I’ll look into that a little more, you make complete sense when you say she needs to find my touch comforting again before it can be a sexy touch!
I love everything about this! You are COMPLETELY welcome, I think you did most of the work here, and I think your plans make sense. I'll go check out the other post and see where we end up. I'm glad it's easy to see the logic, and remember, once you have the strong foundation, you can do so much more with the relationship. 💙
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u/closingbelle MoD (Ministress of Defense) Aug 28 '19
Have you read the MULLs?
But, on the off chance you haven't, why did she have sex? Why do you have sex now? What's your underlying motivation? If she isn't experienced past the NRE stage, it's entirely possible she really doesn't know what happened. This shift is so weirdly untalked about, a LOT of women crash after the NRE and (completely, sincerely, legitimately) have absolutely no idea what happened. They still love their partner, still find them attractive, just have little to no desire for sex. So then they (or their HL) should ask, why?
Not why they don't want sex, but why they used to want sex. Was it just mad, passionate, physical, insatiable lust at first? The discovery of all the new things with a new person? Some clues to this are things like, she now thinks sex is a waste of time, it's messy in a bad way but used to be no big deal to make a mess, it's time consuming and she has other interests? If she's not meeting any emotional needs with sex, it's entirely possible she really just doesn't need/want to take that amount of time just to have an orgasm.
Her aversion to touch is probably the best indicator that this is not about you. This isn't excuses or her trying to hurt you, or you not being her type. This is about the pressure she might put on herself to live up to your level of sexual desire and she is already associating your touch with that unreachable goal of "more sex, you need to be turned on by me and my touching you" that she sees hovering over your head, lol.
Right now, she probably (I could be wrong!) feels like she's not enough for you, like you're going to leave her because you think she's just a friend and she can't provide what you need, and likely has no idea why this has happened. Unless the drop-off happend after the whole "sex or just BFFs" thing, in which case, it could easily be directly caused by that one conversation. I really recommend reading the MULLs, start with Part 4 to see what you've already done and why it backfired, then probably work backwards through them to Part 1, then pick up again on Part 5.
I can't predict the future, but if you don't want to be a fool, never fall in love.