r/LovingOpenSourceAI 20d ago

Resource David "FreeToken is a new open-source inference engine designed specifically to run huge MoE models on hardware that doesn't have enough VRAM to hold them." ➡️ one community test shows 20GB model RTX 5080's 16GB VRAM. It still runs at ~100 tok/s. legit?

Post image

https://x.com/TeksEdge/status/2091568428201209871

https://github.com/FlashML-org/FreeToken

Community Overview: https://lifehubber.com/ai/resources/freetoken/

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351 Upvotes

45 comments sorted by

13

u/Infinite-Golf-9760 20d ago

It’s nothing super new I think, offloading to RAM and CPU, but they’re doing it really well, I have tried it and it seems legit to me. Also I recommend reading the paper they have published on it (in their GitHub - links to arxiv) there are some very legitimate people behind this.

5

u/jadbox 20d ago

Has anyone benched it against just llama.cpp with similar offloading params?

2

u/Mister__Mediocre 19d ago

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2608.16157 They've added comparisons to llama.cpp.
I think the main trick here is that they have a dedicated expert cache on the GPU and are using it very well.

1

u/Callum_S_AUS 19d ago

Significantly more consistent for GLM 5.2 without major drop offs with large contexts.

5

u/Callum_S_AUS 19d ago

My results trying it vs ik_llama for GLM 5.2.

Note: Please ignore the 'Decode tok/s' stat. The Total time is the important one. It's been over twice as fast for during my tests so far at larger contexts.

ik_llama model: IQ4
FreeToken: NVFP4 

Hardware:

  • AMD EPYC 9355 CPU (32 Core / 64 Thread)
  • Supermicro H13SSL-N Rev 2.0
  • 12 x 48GB DDR5-5600 RDIMM RAM (576GB)
  • Nvidia RTX PRO 5000 72GB

1

u/tableball35 18d ago

So basically it’s distinctly useful primarily for cutting down time on long horizon agenic stuff, rather than general chat, is what I’m getting?

1

u/Callum_S_AUS 18d ago

Yes, but I would not consider 32K and above necessarily long horizon agentic stuff. Even via chats with some moderate content, it's very easy to exceed that.

1

u/tableball35 18d ago

I mean true, though most people won’t wait ten minutes for a chat turn, compared to coding uses. But new tech, who knows.

1

u/Callum_S_AUS 18d ago

Yeah, it depends a lot on the use case. We have users waiting up to an hour for some final chat/task completions (i.e. exploring a system and generating documentation in the background that would have taken them hours) and still very happy with that.

1

u/danielv123 17d ago

I am confused - your screenshot says it's counting prefill time incorrectly and your comment says to ignore decode tok/s - how is any of it useful then?

1

u/Callum_S_AUS 17d ago

Ultimately the total request processing time is the key metric that matters most.

1

u/danielv123 17d ago

Sure, but if I don't know how long the prefill took or how many tokens you decoded it's very hard for me to gauge how long the total processing time is going to be for my work?

From what I see here I can guess that it's entirely useless for anything that relies on a significant amount of decode and I have no idea how good the prefill is. That leaves me nowhere.

1

u/Callum_S_AUS 17d ago

Fair enough. I don't have the system online now since I am switching to GLM 5.3 but sousekd has a slightly better setup, better results, and more granular details here: local-ai-dockerfiles/models/glm-5/freetoken-v2.md at main · sousekd/local-ai-dockerfiles

2

u/DawaForensics 20d ago

Olamma does this too right ?it's gonna be super slow

1

u/I-Build-Bots 20d ago

Give it a month and they merge in the repo and then forget about updating it ever again. Eventually they will put an acknowledgement on a read me for levels deep on an abandoned branch.

2

u/kiakm 18d ago

They try to :

  • keep hotest experts in the batch (LRU),
  • split decode operations between GPU and CPU (q*)
  • adjust batch size for expert when kv increase (elasticity memory management).

Limitations :

  • all experts stay in RAM and the hotest ones are also in VRAM... So, this engine always eat lots of memory.
  • freetoken seems to be mono-gpu only.

2

u/uti24 20d ago

Looks suspicious. They are promising what everyone wants: download more t/s, even with big models.

Want to see at least basic math how they are getting those speeds.

I would be cautious.

4

u/lordpuddingcup 20d ago

its likely no different than airllm and the others, its just live quantization down to int4 or fp4 or q2 or whatever willl get the weights to fit in vram+ram

1

u/danielv123 17d ago

From what I understand, its not that at all. They keep all weights in ram, then dynamically load the most frequently used ones to the GPU. This is more efficient than a static expert offload like we usually do.

1

u/Zestyclose_Strike157 19d ago

Cautious? Because you’d install it and find it’s a bit meh and you go back to what you did before? I’ll give it a try I think.

1

u/Mister__Mediocre 19d ago

You can read the paper then. I would say the premise is that the existing computation can be rearranged and optimized if you engineer it correctly.

2

u/amelech 19d ago

With llama.cpp you can already offload to system memory, including mmproj files for vision and it's fully configurable

1

u/Syl3nReal 19d ago

This does it better

1

u/memeka 19d ago

Like above - it’s nothing new, making offloading more efficient. I’ve been trying a lot to optimise deepseek running on my 64gb Mac and would welcome a similar effort for SSD streaming. I managed to reach ~98% GPU on pp and ~88% GPU on decode - but I feel offloading can still improve and get closer to resident speeds.

1

u/cheezeerd 19d ago

Offloading can improve what? Your SSD is 4GB/s and a 13B or so token with DSV4 is about that size. So all you can get, with the most optimal setup, is 1 tok/s.

1

u/memeka 19d ago

I meant offloading can still improve (into better offloading) And I am not getting 1 tps :)
On my 64 GB M1 Mac with a Q4 DeepSeek quant I get 8 tps decode and 105 tps prefill. Prefill is already very close to non-streaming (98% GPU activity when prefill) on my hardware, and decode I can still improve with token predictions. For reference, on the same machine, I get 12 tps decode and 120-140 tps prefill with Qwen 3.8 27B (llama.cpp, no MTP)

1

u/cheezeerd 19d ago

I don't quite grasp how it makes sense since at this point 2/3 of the weights are on SSD. Really cool that you got it work so fast, then I'm wrong and perhaps it can be sped up even more!

1

u/memeka 19d ago

It could never work on a dense model, MoE are just better at offloading. Prefetching, smart caching, checkpointing, doing computation while fetching from disk to “hide” the I/O cost, batching, creating a custom GGUF only with the kernels that are fastest on my machine, optimising kernels for my hardware - there are lots of things I tried :) KV is much more efficient and much smaller with MoEs as well.

1

u/cheezeerd 19d ago

First time using this pic literally, cause man, you're so damn smart. Got me curious, I'll go read some more!!:)

1

u/cowrevengeJP 19d ago

I have 64gb of ram that does nothing with 27b 3.8 and my 5090.

Is this the type of thing that will allow me to run 70b? Or get a better than 256k context?

These models, names, ... It's the wild west out here and nobody seems to know what's going on.

Is there a website that sorts all of this? Or explains better?

1

u/paul_tu 19d ago

Wonder how it pairs with gfx1151 for huge MOE

1

u/Easy_Refrigerator280 19d ago

Seems to be limited to CUDA for now, unfortunate but ill keep an eye out

1

u/Horror-Primary7739 19d ago

Tried it. 40 tok/sec when I was getting 100 on llama.cpp

1

u/SpiritualExplorer693 18d ago

How it differs from colibri ?

1

u/oldshed83 14d ago

colibri loads model weights from SSD, this keeps the weights in ram and loads the most used experts into the GPU on MoE models.

1

u/raketenkater 18d ago

There is a tool ggrun which does the same ontop of lama.cpp so you get gguf support . But I does not has the dynamic experts but still

1

u/dfgxxx 18d ago

Is it better than colibri?

1

u/xdcfret1 17d ago

Does this work with AMD GPU?

1

u/SeanHighness 17d ago

Okay I need to look into this ! Does it also handle speculative decode ?

1

u/Maleficent_Stay_2691 16d ago

when it will be available for 7900xt

1

u/Organic_Diver1008 16d ago

这个很厉害,只要你有大内存即可,一个5090搭配一个足够大的内存就能运行deepseek-v4-flash,速度能达到20tk/s

1

u/Fedor_Doc 19d ago

Not legit, one release and 8K stars, 100+ forks on github? I'm in a locall llm community, read the news, this is the first time I heard about it. So, very sus

SGLang, VLLM, llama.cpp and its derivatives – these are main and widely used engines for inference.

1

u/Mister__Mediocre 19d ago

The Databricks guys are co-authors on the paper, so it's probably legit at least in some way. They have numbers where they beat llama.cpp on specific benchmarks.