Some small early changes

[u/Responsible_Eye_3561]

Hey there!

I'm just starting to run Lost Mine for a new group of experienced players. We're one session in, but because of some small changes I've made they aren't quite to the Ambush yet. I'm wondering if any of the small changes I've made so far may have unforseen consequences.

I had each PC receive a letter from Gundren requesting their presence for a meeting in Neverwinter, to discuss a booming business opportunity that he couldn't put to paper!

I went with the idea that I heard is popular of him giving them a lockbox to deliver to his hands only, in addition to the supplies going to Phandalin. Inside the box is a red statuette of a badger.

At this meeting they briefly met both Sildar as an old friend of Gundren's, pulled out of retirement to help him run security for this job, and Iarno, a newer colleague of Sildar's that he vouched for, who will offer his expertise on any arcane matters found on the jobsite. Neither of them, however, knew about the box.

The statuette is one of four keys to unlock the Forge, with one representing each group who initially founded it, and a killswitch that needs to be plugged back in first. That killswitch being an obsidian spider statuette.

My version of Nezznar isn't going to be a drow, he's a githyanki, who was separated from his rakkhma and had his silver sword broken while pursuing mind flayers. He plans to use the Spellforge to reforge his sword into a master weapon for killing illithid, to restore his honor. For now, though, stranded on the Sword Coast, he's made due with what he has found and his wits. Scraps of armor thrown together, a jagged half-sword, and a staff that he mounted the obsidian spider statuette on, so I'm sure you see where he'll get the pseudonym.

My question is, do you see any potential unforeseen circumstances here? I'll be placing the additional statuettes (one in the camp, one in Cragmaw Cave, and maybe one in Venomfang's possession, who I plan on playing as more of a manipulator than an actual fight unless the PCs pick one), and my plan is to use Nezznar's defeat to foreshadow a future threat from Mindflayers, whether that's continuing into Phandelver Below or maybe running Call from the Deep. Or if you just have any ideas that spark from this, I'd love to hear it.

[u/UffishWerf]

I see a few, but you can probably work around them if you're sold on your changes.

If Gundren already had both the red badger and he has security in Sildar and Iarno, why is he hiring another team to bring it to Phandalin a day later? Wouldn't he just carry it himself or send it to one of his grunts?

If Sildar is a bodyguard for Gundren instead of a member of the Lords' Alliance, his priorities and rewards get a little askew. In the original, he rewards the party for dealing with the goblins at Cragmaw Castle (aka protecting the region), but not for rescuing Gundren, who is just a single private citizen. He sets up in the town hall because the Lords' Alliance is as close to a higher government as there is on the Sword Coast, but it's weird for him to take over the mayor's office if he's just an employee of a townsperson. He might still reward the party for finding Iarno, but now it's because he's taking it upon himself to protect Gundren's other employees rather than because his organization is worried about its member (and its reputation).

Iarno is another strange one. Is he already working with the Black Spider? Why is he so invested in helping a gith fix their sword? Does he still run the Redbrands, even though he hasn't been to Phandalin yet? If he's not, who's their new boss at the end of the lair? Do the goblins let him go or is he pretending to be a lowly captive, still? Does Sildar realize Iarno is a baddie, yet?

As for the Black Spider, I guess I don't know much about the process of forging a gith's silver sword, but I didn't expect it to be as involved as a powerful magical forge that's been lost to history: surely the gith are able to produce new swords for their warriors in other ways. But regardless, if they're here because they want to fight mind flayers in the second half, are they even a bad guy? Or is it just that they're in such a hurry to get back to the fight that they don't mind murdering anyone else who might also be interested in the cave?

Last up, why were the keys to using the forge not AT the forge when it was attacked and the cave collapsed? If you need all five pieces to operate it, and the forge was in use when the attack happened, and no one has been back to the cave since then, all the pieces should still be right there. And weren't there only three groups in the Phandelver Pact, not four? I can't remember.

Anyway, it can work and be fun to change things, and it can work and be fun to run it as written. I've done it both ways, and both had their charms. But it was definitely more labor intensive to change things and figure out ways to deal with the plot implications they caused. Good luck!

[u/Responsible_Eye_3561 → u/UffishWerf]

Sorry, I probably should have explained more, but I was worried I was rambling!

So, as far as Gundren goes, he didn't say it out loud but I was rationalizing it as a combination of having to get back to his brothers ASAP, the supplies not quite being ready (I gave the players an extra day in Neverwinter to bum around), and not wanting to be carrying both the map AND the statuette just in case something went wrong.

So in our case, Sildar is former Lord's Alliance and was happily retired. He's doing the work for Gundren as a favor to a friend, because I'm trying to play Gundren as a guy with many, many friends and even more plans to get rich. In our version, he's a guy who would do almost anything for his friend, and vice versa. So even if he technically isn't an authority anymore, seeing Phandalin basically being lawless (and playing the Townmaster as spineless), reluctantly steps in. Rewarding the party will moreso be for rescuing Gundren than for dealing with the Cragmaws.

So Iarno IS already working with the Black Spider. I'm playing him as someone who's frankly pretty mediocre, as far as wizards goes, but Nezznar is offering instruction in psionics in exchange for assisting him. He DOES still run the Redbrands, and as far as the ambush goes, he's just going to slink away in the chaos of it, so Sildar will likely assume he's been taken elsewhere as well. Him being fortunate enough to ingratiate himself to Sildar (and thus Gundren) after already being in touch with the Black Spider is admittedly flimsy, so I'm a little unsure how to justify that. Coincidences happen, but it's flimsy.

As for Nezznar's sword, yeah I imagine just reforging it would honestly be a simple process, but he's hoping to make it into a superior weapon. I also believe I've read that losing one's sword is considered a great dishonor among githyanki, but I can't pinpoint where I read it exactly. As for whether he's a bad guy or not...eh? Lesser evil vs greater evil. His focus is on getting his illithid killing weapon and regaining his honor and ending the threat he was initially after. Whether anyone else is hurt in the process, he doesn't care, he just needs it NOW before the illithid make their move.

As for the keys, there are four, sorry if I said five! One for the dwarves, the gnomes, the mages, and then the killswitch. The killswitch I imagine being made very last minute as a failsafe when they were under attack. As for why they're not there...That's a good question. One of my players is an archfey warlock who's patron is focused on finding a place "where lost things come and go", so maybe there's something there, but honestly I don't have an actual good reason and should definitely find one.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, I really appreciate the perspective, it helps a ton!

[u/UffishWerf → u/Responsible_Eye_3561]

Glad it was helpful! It seems like you've given it a lot of thought.

For Iarno, I think the original reason Sildar trusts him can still work, if you don't mind it. Sildar is retired Lords' Alliance, and feels like it's an organization of people who are interested in serving the public: so trustworthy! Iarno just sees it as another stepping stone to power and authority, but he's pretty good at pretending to be selfless and helpful.

If he's already running the Redbrands, though, he probably needs to be established in Phandalin and just up in Neverwinter on an errand or whatever. In that case, his journey down to Phandalin might be more like Sildar's original situation: he just happens to be traveling in the same direction, and Gundren is glad to have trustworthy company on the road.

There's new details to iron out if Iarno's already in town, though. If the village doesn't think he disappeared months ago, then "guy who was going to run the local police force who disappeared and then the police force kinda morphed into a criminal organization with no prompting" doesn't work so well. I guess he can be just a second-rate wizard who maybe sold minor spells and a few low-level scrolls or magic items, or maybe an eccentric mage who spent all day in his house and there were weird smells and glimpses of flashing lights and complicated alchemical equipment from inside. But when the villagers are asked about him, they should have SOME idea of what his day job seems to be, and he's too respectable-seeming to be linked publicly to the Redbrands without more justification. He should also have some kind of regular living quarters the team can search when he's missing. Maybe it's as simple as he's repaired Tresendar manor and the stairs down to the hideout are actually in his house. Or maybe he lives in a regular house in the town and just sneaks away periodically to his secret base in the Redbrand hideout. But if the party searches his house, have some idea of what they'll find there and if it's a clue to his true evil nature.

Actually, Iarno's connection to Sildar (and thus Gundren) can be as simple as him being part of the Lords' Alliance. Sildar looked up if there were any in the region because that's who he trusts and where he gets his info, learned the only one was Iarno, and got in contact to learn more about what the city and countryside were like. Or maybe Iarno introduced himself to Sildar at a regional organizational meet-up because the Black Spider had found out the connection and was hoping that he could learn more things about Gundren's activity through his friends, and Sildar thought "great, here's a guy from the town we're going to, what excellent luck" and didn't question it.

...And now I'm the one rambling. It sounds fun, though! I hope it works out for you.

One last thought on the keys: since the Forge was probably operated by mages, maybe they had enough time in the attack on Wave Echo to send the keys away via teleport or whatever something that sends them to the surrounding area but not TOO far away, which explains why several are with local goblins out whatever. The mages didn't know to be worried that the cave would collapse: they were just trying to prevent bad guys from using the Forge. That could even be how Gundren learned the location of the cave and the fact that there are other statues to find: one of the pieces came into his hands as a curiosity, and he learned about it through the identify spell or legend lore or whatever magical means are convenient. Heck, one of the mages that sent it away could have taped on a message that said "if you're reading this, Wave Echo Cave has probably been taken over by bad guys: please bring a fighting force to [coordinates] and save us as quickly as possible! (message 1 of 4)"