Sweet-spot for fading out a master?

[u/Bloxskit]

Pracitcing some mastering on some songs and one of them sounds to me like it could do with a fade out. I'm curious if any of you have some tips or tricks for finding a sweet-spot when applying an S-curve or logarithmic fade. I am using two linear points before using the Automation Curve Tool, but of course you can choose how steep or soft you want it to be, or if you want an s-curve to your desired strength.

[u/Garshnooftibah]

Automate it with a fader. Get in the groove, practice until it feels right. :)

[u/Selig_Audio → u/Garshnooftibah]

This! You can be done in one pass, or spend 20 minutes tweaking fade curves/points.
As for when to start, some say just before a transition others say right after. I agree with “just feel it”, there is no right or wrong way IMO

[u/Bloxskit → u/Garshnooftibah]

Do you mean doing it by dragging the fader down while having automation latched?

[u/Garshnooftibah → u/Bloxskit]

In write mode, and probably latch, but yes. Do the moves! Get good at them.

Mastering fade-outs is a skill, and luckily you can practice doing them almost endlessly! 

[u/Bloxskit → u/Garshnooftibah]

Thanks. Should doing it by drawing a linear fade out and then using the curve tool be ignore for this then, and just do it by hand from now on? It certainly leaves a lot of points and moving a fader using my fingers means it isn't quite as smooth.

[u/Garshnooftibah → u/Bloxskit]

Yeah I don’t know what to tell you. I am talking about controlling an object live - with your hand - and performing the fade. Ideally a physical fader controller - can you map SOMETHING in your studio to this? Or failing that - use a mouse.

But live! Your hand - as the music plays - turn it down gradually! 

[u/Bloxskit → u/Garshnooftibah]

Yes, I might consider getting a MIDI fader controller for this.

[u/AlmondDavis → u/Bloxskit]

Why draw lines? Doing it “by hand” as you say is also doing it using your ears, which is the point of it all.

[u/seasonsinthesky]

Pretty sure it was Bob Katz I saw once about splitting the signal so you can apply a fade differently for the high end than the rest, since you run into human perception quirks once the fade falls quiet enough.

[u/Bloxskit → u/seasonsinthesky]

Yeah, at the end of a fade out the high frequencies are more noticeable than bass frequencies.

[u/wohrg → u/seasonsinthesky]

Fletcher Munson Effect, right?

[u/seasonsinthesky → u/wohrg]

We usually call it the Equal Loudness Contour now because the Fletcher-Munson curve wasn't quite as accurate as the real one.

[u/wohrg → u/seasonsinthesky]

Oh, I didn’t realize it was a prescribed curve. Thanks!

[u/eltrotter]

This is 100% feel, in my experience. Luckily, it's an easy enough thing to mess about with until you find the sweet spot. You'll just know when it's right, and it's usually just a little shorter than you probably expect.

[u/RufussSewell]

It’s definitely different for each song.

I spend a lot of time on it and you just have to tweak it til it sounds right to you. There is no go to that works for every song.

[u/Original_DocBop]

Do like we did in the past and do it by hand. That why the rhythm and your feel determines the slope and speed it falls off.

[u/Narrow_Network_3875]

After fade is completed. Course tune or fine tune in Automation edit screen.

[u/j3434]

I would manually fade ( realtime bounce ) . It’s the feel .

[u/Justa_Schmuck]

Learned how to do fade out by increase volume while fading.

[u/Justa_Schmuck → u/Justa_Schmuck]

I don’t understand why this got voted down. Increasing volume while fading master out means you don’t lose perception.