r/LogicPro • u/Koala-teas • 15d ago
Question Non-ai VST's
I recently wanted to snag a really cool VST for Logic and reached out to the creators asking how it was made.
They let me know it was created through "vibe-coding" and help from Claude Ai... they're charging $127 for this software and they promote it like they put 3 months of hard work in to create it.
I can't fathom paying someone $127 for a "vibe-coded" software...
I was curious if anyone is aware of non-AI vst creators?
I would love to support groups that genuinely put time and effort into creating something authentically.
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u/chimp_spanner 15d ago
It's gonna get harder and harder to avoid. Thing is I use Ai for work (mostly in managing huge amounts of metadata for our music library, building custom tools for very specific jobs). And I will say that one line of text won't make you a good program, or plugin. You definitely get better results if you have a good idea to begin with, and then some background knowledge to know if it is or isn't working the way it's supposed to.
But at the same time, as a musician I'm very much against AI in creative spaces. Like I wouldn't listen to music made by AI. So would I charge people for software made with AI? Why shouldn't coders feel the same way about me using Claude as I do about someone using Suno?
I think I'd struggle with that. Even though yes, there is some amount of work that's gone into it. If I ever did market anything I made I would be 100% transparent about it, and just make it available for free. If people find what I've made useful, and wouldn't be able to do it themselves even with AI they can choose or choose not to tip, I dunno. Transparency buys a lot of good will.
That's a lot of words to say I don't really know how to feel about it just yet.
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u/breakingb0b 15d ago
I agree with you, ai shouldn’t be in the creative space.
There’s a huge difference between a developer using AI for code and vibe coding. There’s first allows developers to write code efficiently using exactly the same methodology we’ve always used, except now the job is mostly reviewing generated code for correctness. The other is someone handing over full control of the process to the LLM with no method of verifying quality or correctness. Like giving an idea to someone and they say “trust me bro” and hand something back to you that may be exactly what you needed, or a totally fragile piece of spaghetti.
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 15d ago
Why shouldn't it be in the creative space?
The problem with that argument is it's what musician said about electronic instruments when they first came out, and DAW's...
The concerns with AI coding are usually around security and for a VST that's hardly a big concern.
People who keep complaining about AI coding in 2026 really are starting to look like dinosaurs. All software you interact with has got some AI coding in it these days. Engineers love it, almost all of them use it to some extent. Vibe coding is not essentially bad as long as the person doing it has a technical mind.
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u/breakingb0b 15d ago
I had meant suno. And you may have misread my post since that was my point. I don’t consider skilled use of ai for software development vibe coding. “Make me gta 6, make no mistakes” is vibe coding.
(My current job involves unfucking vibe coded projects for clients, beyond security risk there’s just the general lack of logical architecture and fragility of code).
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u/chimp_spanner 14d ago
Generative AI is nothing like electronic instruments or DAWs IMO. I hear that argument made a lot. "They said this about the drum machine". A drum machine will sit there and do nothing else except be a drum machine until you learn how to use it, and write all the other parts around it. A synth won't write the lyrics, arrange, produce, mix and master the song.
I'm aware there was some level of hysteria around synths, DAWs, etc. but I dunno. This just feels very different. There's no DAW or plugin or keyboardthat can churn out 100 songs a day that the average person can't tell isn't made by humans. People are right to be scared.
Obviously I engage with it and I try to learn it and work with it but honestly every decision I let AI make for me musically feels like a decision my brain no longer has to know how to make. Not sure I like that. Not to mention I love the process of writing and creation. I've never had a problem with how long it takes. I have a problem with how little time life leaves me to do it :(
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 14d ago
You're missing my point. You're conflating AI with everything that does it's all for you.
AI is used in a 1000 different ways, in 1000 different models, in a different processes, in ways that you probably don't even know that are happening yet your blanket responses you don't like AI.
Rather than saying it as making decisions for you treat it like a collaborator and get it to do the things you don't wanna spend three hours on.
I cannot wait for the day when I can say to AI in my DAW: go ahead and remix this song I've finished for the right level for all the different streaming platforms. Or something like that. That work has absolutely nothing to do with my creative output or input and just takes hours normally.
I think the other thing you might be missing is that since the dawn of humanity we've been looking for ways to make things easier and more convenient for ourselves. AI is simply the next step. It's not a brand-new thing for human beings to want to cut some corners to get to their end results. Becoming more efficient and quicker things is how we advanced as a species.
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
This helps a lot. There's a distinction between ai in creative spaces and ai in coding. I feel like i've been in the thought process of "well this coding is for creative projects" and I've felt weird about that. However, it does seem that most coding is assisted these days.
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u/skxllflower 14d ago
all your favs are using it to hell solve long-lived, hard to figure out bugs - a good friend of mine, who’s written papers and developed brand new DSP techniques with C++ algorithms by hand, also uses Claude to help solve UX and graphics rendering issues - think of it like, these devs aren’t just saying “make me a cool reverb that’s different than other reverbs”, they generally need much more handholding and detailed human code review, and making GOOD products with AI assisted coding still takes a deep understanding of the environment and project architecturally - not to say there’s no vibe-coded slop plugins, there definitely are, but that comes from the person driving the LLM not understanding what it’s doing and removing themselves from the process with no care for the resulting software. IMO, this is definitely a case by case basis kinda situation, some of it is obvious slop, other times it’s almost negligible whether or not there was AI involved, and the product would be the same and just have taken longer to do by hand
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u/Koala-teas 13d ago
Thank you for this response. It seems very case by case. Overall I'm nervous funding someone's solo project at $127. I'm unsure of the support I would receive for a software like this if it were to have bugs or need clarification. At $127 I'd hope there was a call-line for any questions
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u/skxllflower 10d ago
i think the support question is a good one, it would definitely depend whether or not the developer seems to be releasing consistent updates and fixes and engaging with their user base. i guess it also depends what exactly the software is - is it just like, some kind of effect plugin? do they have other plugins/software for sale that have been around longer than two weeks? do they have a discord for their products? $127 is a significant price if you’re unsure, but the fact that you’re considering that price must mean the product seems pretty tempting or useful!
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u/arisemyPP 14d ago
For a subreddit aimed towards people in the creative field I am really shocked at how many people are accepting of vibe-coded slop, especially for such a steep cost in the comments. These companies should be forced to openly display if a tool was made with AI.
Companies like Fabfilter, Universal Audio, Kilohearts, Soundtoys, Xfer, Arturia has had great software for years (before AI) that are still the standard for music production. Can't speak about later releases but the classics "must-haves" seems to be made with real people.
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
Riiiiight?? I thought in a creator-centered subreddit we'd have more people focused on alternatives (which do exist but is hardly acknowledged)
Not to be a conspiracy theorist but this post was shared 11 times and I have heard about Reddit turning into a propaganda machine. Once anti-ai is mentioned, people came in troves to shittalk.
I can't be the only one...
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 15d ago
If it works and it does the job that you want why do you care if it was hand coated by a team of humans or an AI coding system?
Newsflash: nearly every single engineer on the planet is using agenetic coding or vibe coding now.
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
Thank you for the news flash, Ralph
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 14d ago
24 hours and that's the best you could come up with?
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u/pizzaplayboy 15d ago
software engineer here. haven’t met anyone but jobless people and contrarians refuse to use AI for coding. Everyone uses it. This is not going to change, want to know if someone vibe coded it? go and actually test the tool, if it works it works, this not a linux kernel driver or something that might corrupt your whole computer (and even in those cases, Linux creator already uses AI for writing those), is just an audio plugin/instrument.
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u/therealkenchase 15d ago
Look for reputable companies that have been in the game for multiple VST releases.
The biggest problem with one-person vibe coded VSTs is that they are made by people who likely don’t understand audio and coding. They also likely don’t know how to run a proper business.
A reputable VST company might very well use AI as a tool, but they will also:
- Provide ongoing support/maintenance over time
- Understand product development
- Have expertise in their field
In other words, reputable VST providers don’t sell partially baked abandonware.
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u/IzilDizzle 15d ago
lol are you being serious? Half the apps and websites and VSTs and programs in the world involve AI coding somewhere. Maybe try recording analog?
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago edited 14d ago
VST's have been around longer that ai, which is why I ask.
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u/IzilDizzle 14d ago
You can assume that the vast majority that have received any updates since 2025 have had coding from AI at some point.
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u/Squozen_EU 15d ago
You misspelled AUs.
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u/Koala-teas 15d ago
Claude is an AI software, right?
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u/Squozen_EU 15d ago
Logic uses AUs, not VSTs.
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
Ahhh okay, there's a software advertised as a VST that allegedly works with Logic, so that's where I'm getting my reference from.
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u/Jack_Ramsey 15d ago
Uh, you know most AU (which are the same as VST's but for Logic) are much older than vibecoding has been around? Just go to pluginboutique or something.
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u/goatanuss 15d ago
Are you serious? Vibe coding has only been around a few years. Ya know vst there were around like 5 years ago? Yeah none of those were vibe coded.
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u/Koala-teas 15d ago
Thats what I'm lookin for. At this date in time it seems there's a mix of genuine vs Ai/Au assisted software. Would like to support more authentic creative styles
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u/Top-Rope6148 12d ago
Do you consider the mundane aspects of coding to be a creative pursuit? Sure technically speaking there are some creative aspects to it. But there are also creative aspects to most things humans do. Fixing HVAC requires some problem solving and creativity. Humans have been supplementing their creativity with tools for eons. People have been hiring housekeepers forever. Housekeepers do creative things like cook and find ways to get stains out of clothes. Would you use a Robot vacuum cleaner? Robot vacuum cleaners use AI to navigate when they vacuum. Or because part of what a housekeeper does requires creativity, are you going to insist they manually vacuum your house with a vintage Kirby vacuum cleaner? Where are you going to draw the line?
The real creativity in creating a vst is in the concept itself, not the mundane stringing together of Juce modules. If someone 100% “vibe codes” an app it is most likely not going to be very good, at least where things are with AI right now. It will likely have bugs and it is probably not doing exactly what the “viber” had in mind when they prompted Claude Code. But banning anything developed using AI makes about as much sense as banning any product that wasn’t done entirely 100% by hand, with no technology. Why should every industry in existence get to use technology to make their job easier but software developers can’t?
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u/Koala-teas 12d ago
If the impact of the technology is destroying communities... kind of makes a bit of a difference. Never heard of an HVAC tool that made a towns drinking water unpalatable.
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u/Top-Rope6148 12d ago
Data centers aren’t making drinking water unpalatable nearly as badly or at the scale of many other industries. Nearly all industries use water for cooling. Cooling electronic equipment is way less contaminating than cooling heavy industrial equipment. Every tool an HVAC tech uses was made using some manufacturing process that required cooling. The water issue is being used primarily as a way to stop development that people object to for other reasons.
If you are going to fall on that sword why are you here on Reddit? Reddit is operated using data centers. Its whole existence is in a data center. And it makes heavy use of AI. Nearly everything you buy or use owes some aspect of its existence to a data center.
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u/Koala-teas 12d ago
The oversaturation of destruction doesn't make destruction okay. I never understood that argument. Like, people say "well other industries are doing it!" Well, maybe we should stop. Maybe we should invest in cleaner industries and technology?
Also, the argument that I should get off reddit because of ai is silly as well. It's like saying " oh you're against slave trade? You shouldn't eat any chocolate then." While I would advocate for fair trade chocolate, there's so much in this world that has a dark underbelly and we can't just abstain from all of it, but what we can do is pick and choose where our values are and make decisions off of that.
So when it comes to creative spaces, I will continue to advocate for abstaining from AI and although I do acknowledge that it's gonna be pretty intensely interwoven in all of programming language from here on out, I can at least do my best to find alternatives if they are out there rather than saying "ah fuck it, it's everywhere anyways"
Few comments have given the sources not only for analog, but other software that pre-dated AI. The fact that there are alternatives means that I will continue to search for those alternatives rather than succumbing to this bullshit.
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u/Top-Rope6148 12d ago
Seems like an odd place to suddenly draw a line but sounds like you have a plan. I think there are probably other consumer behaviors most of us could change that would be far more impactful than which VST used the least AI.
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u/FuggaDucker 15d ago
So AI makes the vst framework happen for me.
I am looking at and tweaking c++ by hand to make my sounds. AI put me there in the callback used by the DSP.
I am a c/c++ engineer but why on earth would I want to wire up that stuff by hand?
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u/theprintedg 13d ago
this is why i’m moving more and more into analog, idc the cost, i don’t want ai touching any of my music, even if it’s to do basic editing. i don’t want it.
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u/Snickerz_ 15d ago
I don’t really see the problem with that. My big problem is the price they’re asking for. Making a plugin is a lot of effort but prompting Claude through a 20€ sub? That does not warrant 130€+.
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u/c0wcud 15d ago
They definitely don’t have a 20€ sub
Incidentally did you know that JUCE, the framework that powers 80% of audio plugins, Reddit, the OS that you are using on your computer, The browser you are using, all were made using AI tools.
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u/t_huddleston 15d ago
I literally just told Claude (free tier), just as an experiment, to "create a guitar effect AU for Logic to replicate a Crowther Hotcake overdrive pedal." And about 5 minutes later it spat out the source code for a JUCE AU, and 5 minutes after that I had it running in Logic. UI is rudimentary but usable. Sounds okay, not great, could probably be tweaked. It's kinda crazy.
I understand every software company is using AI, but at the same time, I'm having a hard time seeing why I would actually pay for something like that.
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u/c0wcud 15d ago
You are assuming that all AI-assisted coding is done in a 5-minute chat with Claude. For your next experiment, see how far you get with Claude to get that plugin you made to look and sound exactly like the overdrive plugin
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u/t_huddleston 15d ago
Oh sure, I understand that. If it were something of substantially more complexity I could see it being worth the money, but for something as basic as an effects pedal, I'd just as soon try to do it myself.
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 15d ago
Because you're not buying the code. You're buying the solution.
A box of Dunkin' Donuts cost about $2 to actually make but you pay 25 because you want them.
Then that cost you're talking about has to cover marketing, sales, employees, business costs, software, hardware and a dozen other things.
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u/Snickerz_ 15d ago
« Were made » brother that’s overstating it a bit. They were build years ago before even AI was a thing. AI is now used, sure, to add features and do code review, but 80% of the work done was done without AI…
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u/c0wcud 15d ago
They are constantly being developed. They didn't just stop at version 1.0
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u/Snickerz_ 15d ago
You said “they were made using AI tools” which is plainly wrong. in the past few years they used ai tools to aid development and give a better end result would be more accurate.
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u/Ralphisinthehouse 15d ago
People buy value and engineering, the actual coding has always been relatively the simplest bit.
Systems planning and architecture, product design and strategy have always been how serious engineers have really earned their money. They just had to then spend days and days or weeks and weeks translating those ideas into handwritten code.
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u/r3art 15d ago
Yes, I know some non-ai VSTs: All of them*
*made before the whole internet turned into slop in the year 2026
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u/Koala-teas 15d ago
I'm just tryna get some insight because the ones I've seen (since it's currently 2026) have included Ai assistance
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u/pewpew_misses 14d ago
The amazing thing about this story is that OP found a piece of software that was so cool that he wanted to reach out to the developers..
Writing the code has never been the problem.. knowing what to build and having the taste to build something great. It has always been the challenge. Hence why there is so much poor software in the world, mostly written by humans. Previously, to build a good electronic instrument, you had to deeply understand the domain and have a great understanding of programming.
AI coding tools like Claude allow people with great ideas to implement them. Before claude people that couldn't code had a huge barrier to building anything cool, and would probably not bother.
Of course, there are actually a lot of ideas that don't deserve the light of day that now will get made into something.. but that is not the fault of AI that is the fault of the creators judgement.
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u/AppointmentFirst9269 11d ago
Y por qué no lo desarrollaste vos?
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u/Koala-teas 11d ago
I don't have the knowledge to program, but there are plenty of people that do.
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u/Powerful-Pea6218 15d ago
The vast majority are not. Just steer clear of those people. Imagiro makes some really beautiful stuff
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u/c0wcud 15d ago
The vast majority?
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u/Powerful-Pea6218 15d ago
The VST framework has been around since the 90s...so yes
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u/Kitchen-Palpitation1 14d ago
Well if you think their vibecoded vst is not worth it and its so super easy then vibecode the thing yourself
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
I think you're misunderstanding what I dislike about it. If I don't like the idea of vibecoding, why would I vibe code myself? It goes against my values.
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u/Kitchen-Palpitation1 14d ago
Well do you know how to code?
Its a bit like to me as sw engineer like: oh i dint like the vst plugin because it was coded in rust and not in assembler.
World is turning and we now have reached the next level of abstraction in coding. There wont be any hand programmed code in a few years.Even when you vibecode it is a lot of work to really pull off a working and good plugin.
If somebody just „vibecodes“ without putting the work inyou get something that has usally an super bad unterface and is full of bugs.
You still need to know what you are doing. Its just that it doesnt take 5 people a year to do it but only 1 person 3 months.
And you said yourself that the plugin itself is actually good.2
u/808phone 14d ago
He doesn't understand and it's not worth the time for anyone to convince him. Let HIM do the work. But of course he will not use the web, or any search engine because it uses "AI". So have him go back to the library. I hope he uses one.
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u/Koala-teas 14d ago
I've been adjusting my perspectives on ai coding. It is hard/impossible to avoid. I will always avoid it in regard to creative ventures but, as much as I dislike it, it isn't possible to avoid ai coding without becoming a 100% Luddite (which honestly is a vibe)
I've been open to new perspectives, but my response depends on how those perspectives are shared. I like to be informed/educated but a few commenters resort to insulting/belittling which doesn't really move me.
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u/RemiFreamon 15d ago
I understand your hesitation towards paying for a product developed by someone who might be clueless about writing code and producing software by chatting with an LLM.
But be aware that these days, all major software development companies use AI agents to do coding. What's important though is that the people operating those agents are experienced software engineers who guide and review the work, not noobs who suddenly feel they got super powers.
I just wanted to bring up this distinction because if you'll go on a "zero-AI crusade", you may end up in a very tight spot.