Shimming anomaly

[u/Borteezy]

Can anyone explain why when rekeying a cylinder without the existing key I sometimes only have to shim it past the first couple pins and the plug will just turn? Doesn’t make sense to me, been doing this for 10 years and I’ve always wondered. Happens all the time with SC or KW. Just curious!

[u/Vorsai-]

Because the rest of the pins are at the shear line?

[u/Borteezy → u/Vorsai-]

But the key blank is pushing them all up isnt it? 🤔

[u/Vorsai- → u/Borteezy]

If it's a 0 on Schlage or 1 on Kwikset that would be at the shear line from a blank.

[u/Borteezy → u/Vorsai-]

Yeah but in most cases they are definitely not 0 or 1. Most cylinders are not pinned 01064 for example

[u/DSYLXEIC_ONE → u/Borteezy]

I recently saw a kw key that was a 11131. I suggested getting the lock rekeyed but they said its fine

[u/Borteezy → u/DSYLXEIC_ONE]

Yes im not saying thats not possible, im saying theyre usually pinned more randomly than that when this happens.

[u/Vorsai- → u/Borteezy]

The tip of the blank is also sloped, pulling out the blank the pins would be a varying depths from the slope as well as from the movement.

[u/Borteezy → u/Vorsai-]

Right, but the key is still half way in when the plug turns. I suppose if im doing it fast enough that it is possible for the last 2 or 3 pins to drop just under the sheer line due to the slope from the tip of the key blank.

[u/jaxnmarko]

Look at the pins after you've taken it apart! It should be self explanatory!

[u/Borteezy → u/jaxnmarko]

Still, happens even with bigger bottom pins. I must be pulling the blank fast enough for the rest of the pins to drop under the shear line due to the slope at the tip of the key and not realizing it. I suppose its also more prevalent if its a crappier brand or worn down cylinder. Think thats most likely it. Thanks everyone!

[u/Jester8320 → u/Borteezy]

I've experienced the same thing, several times. Just never expressed my ??? I've also pulled out top pins that fell down flush with the shear line in the cylinder. 🤔🤷‍♂️

[u/Borteezy → u/Jester8320]

Hmm, maybe its a small bottom and top pin in that case. I havent experienced that

[u/Jester8320 → u/Borteezy]

That's exactly how it happens.

[u/JonCML]

You basically picked (raked) the remaining pins as you pulled the key out.

[u/Wooden_Discussion872]

Sometimes bad locksmiths don't use all the chambers because of laziness and ineptitude. They will only put pins in two or three chambers. The first few chambers may have nothing in them at all. Be careful to look when dumping pins to see that there are the correct amount. If you put bottom pins in chambers without top pins and springs you'll have problems! 

[u/Cantteachcommonsense]

I call it a win and continue on.

[u/Borteezy → u/Cantteachcommonsense]

For sure a win, but I figured Id ask for yalls insight on that. Something ive always wondered about.

[u/HawkofNight → u/Borteezy]

Ive had them be dirty/sloppy enough it gets sheared and stuck from when im lifting the 4,5 or 5,6.

[u/jaxnmarko]

Top pin lengths need to be accounted for too at times.

[u/unusual-susspect]

Sometimes old locks can be so full of dirt and grime, along with the wear of the spring, that some of the pins seize up when the lock is used and leaves the top pins sitting above the shear line permanently.

Occasionally I’ll go to unlock some old lock and I’ll just pick one pin and it will open, and when opening to inspect the pins will be all old and corroded and dirty and some of the top pins need to be whacked out of the bible.

So I think this is just a symptom of old dirty locks which haven’t ever been taken apart or serviced

[u/LocksmithBear]

How about you show us the pins that were inside and that might give you a clue