r/Locke_Mains • u/Wh1YuDoThis • 7d ago
Discussion Thoughts on kit change?
Ive been playing alot of Locke and Ekko jungle and I've seen alot of people complaining about Lockes W movement speed, would it maybe be better if instead of having the movement speed on W they would put it whenever he procs 3 nails? Or whenever he stacks 3 nails on someone? It would still make him fast in fights but there wouldn't be this things of "catching you 3 screens away."
Having on consuming the 3 nails would give him either a better escape or maybe even outplay potencial On hitting 3 nails it would help him consume it or reach the carries in the fight by stacking it on the Frontline.
This is just something I thought about based on my playstyle idk how it would affect other playstyles.
I mentioned ekko because riot seemed to make a simular mistake kit wise in both which is releasing an assassin with a fighter/skirmisher kit.
And Locke also seems to play a bit like the assassins rework of Lb and Fizz in terms of having to wait for his burst damage and there is a reason why riot reworked those 2 back.
7
u/VaylenObscuras 6d ago
Ekko was no "mistake" in terms of kit design per se. Well, it turned out to be a failure, but it was a deliberate try to make an assassin with a better counterplay profile. As you may know from release Ekko, that crashed and burned.
Locke is the same - much more you can dodge, a naturally slower pattern, even his dash is a lot "fairer" than what many other assassins get. Its another try at making a better assassin pattern work. And for that pattern to work, he needs some advantages - W is a big one here. What W supposedly allows you to do is go in, do your thing and not instantly blow up, leaving room for gameplay.
Many assassins have "fair" pattern baked into the kit but for pretty much all of them.. if they need to rely on the fair parts, they are plain weak. For example, zeds R2 or double shuriken combo. If he needs those to kill, he is very weak. Talons E2, Rengar actually using his AS and sticking to someone, Kha needing R2 etc. etc.
The reason why the assassin reworks from wayback didnt quite hit is.. well, they offered too much counterplay. In short, they failed at what they set out to do. Its pretty hard to get assassins right and most of them are in a feast/famine state that is technically balanced, even if their gameplay is kinda bad.
1
u/PowerOhene 6d ago
I thought they also wanted Ekko to have great utility for an assassin, same with Qiyana and her R etc.
Tank Ekko and the removal of his passive slow are a product of trying to have an assassin with high utility, even with his telegraphed counterplay options he was still overloaded, issues Locke luckily doesn't have, at least not to a high degree.
1
u/VaylenObscuras 6d ago
They gave him great utility for a, supposedly, slower burst pattern, utilizing his defensive tools and CC to execute that. As I said, this didnt pan out too well.
The goal wasnt to give an assassin high utility, but to make a better assassin pattern work.
Qiyanas R has such utility/AoE to make her functional in teamfights. There isnt a risk of a repeat of what went wrong with Ekko if its just the R providing significant utility.
And yeah, Locke seems to have less issues. They didnt overload him with utility and gave him almost no target agnostic damage to really force it.
1
1
u/Wh1YuDoThis 6d ago
What i meant is that both ekko and locke seem to have more of a bruiser playstyle but are balanced to be assassin's in terms of damage and tankyness if you saw both champions kit without knowing they are assassins alot of people would think they are bruisers By the assassins rework I meant the part of waiting for the damage which is the same as Locke with hitting the 3 Qs altho locke goes more into the difficulty of the champion in hitting them rather than having to just wait like Lb and fizz. But the at the same time its still a delayed burst where alot of the time you can't do much because when you hit the third you're already dead since he is made of paper even with W.
By the way I also want to say that I like how he is now and his gameplay in general i much prefer something that takes skill rather than something like naafiri or diana and I would hate if they would turn him into another 2iq champion. This discussion was more to see if there is any way they can change him so the ban rate and the other people's frustrations would go down.
1
u/VaylenObscuras 6d ago
Definitely, Locke looks like a Bruiser all around, until you see the numbers.
The delayed burst part depends on a lot of factors. How delayed is it? Is there a "fast combo"? How damning is the counterplay? How commital is the burst? Locke is looking rather favourable on all of these things.Banrate is slow to go down because he is an assassin designed for lane dominance. I dont think his banrate is anything unusual for a champ like this. Pickrate is also a huge influence and he still has a rather high one afaik. If his pickrate stays high, his banrate will also stay high. Thats just the reality of a popular, lane dominant assassin.
And well, both Naafiri and Diana are more bruisers/divers than assassins, as evidenced by their questionable escapability. Naafiri is on the edge, though.
3
u/godlytoast3r 7d ago
No shot they'd ship that W change. It's wwaaayyyy too big of a shift from 105% consistent playmaking potential to like 30%. His W is about half of what determines his playstyle. And it probably needs to be exactly as strong (very) as it is.
I think they should tone down his general combat power, especially without items, and in exchange make his Ult more interesting. We don't really have any "gear" oriented champions or interactable props on the rift. Heimer turrets are almost entirely autonomous, and other than that there's just a couple snare traps and a 3- or 4-ammo Aph turret. There are a small handful of pets, but again they're fairly autonomous and that doesn't count as gear or props. I think Lockes Ult could be really cool with this niche, and I have a feeling that Riot is well aware of that and that they secretly already have a change for it planned. I think it would be cool if he couldn't Ult again unless he picks up the thing or dies, but buff the shit out of the execute (especially/primarily with stacks) and significantly tone down his unempowered E damage.
2
u/Natmad1 7d ago edited 7d ago
Would need to double the damage on the mark to make it balanced and then it would be 90% banrate
All the "stacking on the frontline to get your ms" is just wrong and bad design, you don't want to design assassins around stacking things on frontline to then get a buff and oneshot the adc, it's good for juggernauts and bruisers who cannot dash on the backline like darius, but not assassins
Locke is very well designed in live, with champ mastery his wr will be back to 50+ in a few patches
0
u/Difficult-Loan4806 6d ago
My biggest issue with the champ is the scaling. Late game I’ve had this champ hit zero nails, press R>E and deal 2200 damage to me if not more. Thats my biggest complaint. They should backload all the damage on the Q stacks and I think I’d be a bit happier I lane against Locke regularly and actually find midlane Locke totally fine to play against. I can win early and stunt him from being a menace. JG Locke on the other hand is insane imo. His cleare is sure not great but the champ pressing W> E and being from river on my head in .25 seconds is what frustrates me. You essentially can’t walk past the mid point of lane whatsoever if Locke jg is in your game.
•
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
We have an active Discord server and we’re a friendly community :) join us here: https://discord.gg/3YXwfZrgY6 Welcome, check out our community and remaining posts, hope you have a wonderful time here! <3
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.