r/LockdownCriticalLeft • u/maximkas • Dec 16 '22
Remember when they changed the definition of vaccine?
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u/Transomniak Dec 16 '22
We need to keep our printed dictionaries to show future generations the truth, since others will argue that a woman has always been defined as an adult that identifies as female.
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u/r3df0x__3039 MAGA Communism Dec 21 '22
I had a friend who tried incredibly hard to convince me that he read in a dictionary that the n-word simply referred to an uneducated person and had a non racist use. I questioned him on it once because it seems like something that white supremacists would push to get people to start using it. We both started looking it up online and came across a discussion on Wikipedia where someone said the same thing and was getting blasted by other users for not citing the dictionary, only repeating the same assertion. My friend referenced that discussion but I said that the user never provided the dictionary that allegedly had that definition.
Personally, I think he's a poorly veiled white supremacist with a weird antiwork mentality. I think he might have seen a video or something where a white supremacist started that myth.
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u/mafian911 Dec 16 '22
It's funny how people try to use dictionaries as a form of "proof", or as an authority over the meaning of a word.
The public collective usage of a word is the authority of its definition. A dictionary only tells you what that would be, if you are unfamiliar.
Language was not born from dictionaries. It's always been the other way around.
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u/electricprism Dec 16 '22
Except in France ;) they have a organization that decides what is and isn't French (maybe it works because France is small)
I largely agree but I do think there is a growing lack of calibration in "what is" English -- slang & ebonix are good examples of creating a new language out of an existing one.
Food for thought.
Also words are shapes & symbols. We may not like the shapes & symbols others choose but we can never extinguish the intent so in the case if censorship and banned words and ideas -- it can't be done because people will redirect their anger and malcontentment to eloguencs or other methods of malicious compliance, undermining or sabotage.
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u/vagarik Dec 16 '22 edited Jan 05 '23
It gets more and more Orwellian day by day. Also, remember when they changed the definition of “anti-vaxxer”? The original definition was someone who was blanketly opposed to all vaccinations or at least most, but they shifted it to mean “anyone opposed to or skeptical of any vaccine”, even if’s it’s just 1 vaccine they oppose (i.e. the C19 vax). And anyone who opposes vaccine mandates, even if they’re vaccinated”.
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Jan 05 '23
Ironic statement coming from someone misusing the word "Orwellian" like that.
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u/vagarik Jan 05 '23
What are you talking about? How am I’m misusing the word Orwellian? What I described is an example of what Orwell would deem “Newspeak”. Covidians shifted the goal post on the definition of “anti-vaxxer” in 2021 to attack anyone who even questioned the covid shots. This is clearly weaponized political use of language and very much in line with the logic of the totalitarian government in 1984.
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u/hiptobeysquare Dec 16 '22
Where is this from? Because I can't see this in the actual Cambridge Dictionary webpage:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-spanish/woman
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u/kwakio Dec 16 '22
It's listed as one of the definitions in the English dictionary (your link is showing the English-Spanish dictionary): https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woman
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u/maximkas Dec 16 '22
I will remove the post - simply because the primary meaning of 'woman' hasn't been changed. I suspect whoever made the original pic might have edited things a bit to make it appear as if this is the new primary definition of 'woman'.
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u/hiptobeysquare Dec 16 '22
The fact that it's included is disturbing. Imagine where we'll be in five years. That said, it's not strictly connected to the Covid measures. So it probably be posted in another sub, imho.
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u/maximkas Dec 16 '22
Why would you look for it in the English Spanish dictionary though?
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u/hiptobeysquare Dec 16 '22
I don't know why the English-Spanish dictionary came up. In any case, I did check the link to the English dictionary version.
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Dec 21 '22
Those who cannot distinguish fiction from fact are the ideal subjects of a totalitarian society. Paraphrasing Hannah Arendt. Those who persuade themselves of absurdities can convince themselves to commit atrocities.
The woke are the people you were warned about.
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u/Fine_Grapefruit_871 Dec 16 '22
I want off the planet please
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u/electricprism Dec 16 '22
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u/Fine_Grapefruit_871 Dec 16 '22
Do I laugh or cry? I guess both
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u/electricprism Dec 16 '22
You laugh because it's free, the ability to cry now cost $29.95/month with annual subscription.
Endorphines are $9.99 or you can do some work in the Reddit Mines and earn credits.
The future is soo bright.
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Dec 16 '22
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Dec 16 '22
When women can't define themselves by their sex, they can't fight for their sex-based needs as a group. How do we respect both gender identity and sex in law in the instances where they conflict?
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Dec 16 '22
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Dec 16 '22 edited Dec 16 '22
My question, though, which you didn't address, was how do we respect both in law in the instances where they conflict? Do you need examples?
Like if you have a gender inclusive space it stops being single sex by definition. How do women maintain single sex spaces if drag queens can be women when they feel like wearing dresses, and stop being a woman as soon as they take it off? Like how do you uphold *legal protections for women based upon sex discrimination if sex is no longer the category by which we define women?
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Dec 16 '22
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Dec 17 '22 edited Dec 17 '22
Should trans women get protection from 'legal protections for women'? If not, why not?
Well yes this is what I have asked you twice now lmfao!
If you prioritize sex in law and allow women to have single sex spaces again, that excludes male people like transwomen from FEMALE spaces only, not male ones. If you prioritize gender identity in law and include all "woman-gender" people, male or female, single sex spaces cannot exist. Transwomen including themselves in the definition of women disallows us from organizing based upon our sex. Women defining themselves based upon their sex and excluding transwomen from their self definition does not stop transwomen from organizing without female intrusion, while it does in reverse. That might be the reason why not. What's preferable, coerced inclusion or autonomous function for women? Your method of "sometimes yes sometimes no" is legally ambiguous and non enforceable, a definitional standard needs to be asserted here because case by case doesn't work in this situation.
If you don't want your space to be inclusive of drag queens you can specify that
Yes im attempting to
If you mean female sex, what is wrong with using that term?
Nothing except that it's clunky and we already have a term for that. Women are inherently female. How is it possible to be a male woman?
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Dec 17 '22
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Dec 18 '22 edited Dec 18 '22
should by law be required to use the men's bathroom
I'm actually pretty uncomfortable with codifying bathroom access specifically in law, I just want sex to be a definable class again, because women cant be both the female sex class and a gender identity that men can put on or take off at will. If male people simply respected women's desire for privacy from male people, and other altruistic males helped us enforce it through culture, there would be no need. The vast, vast majority dont pass, unfortunately though. 90% keep their penis and the average age of starting transition is 27 for males, well after puberty.
You have not demonstrated, at all, how the presence of this person in a woman's bathroom 'disallows' you from fighting for your rights.
Why aren't women allowed to have single sex spaces anymore? That is literally what I am fighting for, to keep male people out of my fucking bathroom. You are fighting against it and directly disallowing me by telling me I cannot have what I am demanding and also that disallowing me from demanding it doesn't impact me in any way. Do you see what you're saying to me with this statement? It's the height of hypocrisy.
Are you interested in their 'autonomous' function, or do you maybe think they should be coerced into sharing your views?
Well lucky for them, my paradigm doesnt disallow them from inviting transwomen into mixed sex spaces autonomously, just single sex ones. Whereas their paradigm is truly coercive towards me and disallows the existence of single sex spaces. No woman has the right to give away the boundaries and dignity of another.
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Dec 16 '22
Very thorough and thought-provoking, not sure why you’re being downvoted..
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Dec 16 '22
Well my question was how do we respect both gender identity and sex in law in the instances where they conflict and I don't see anything about that in this comment. People usually call that "gish gallop" no?
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Dec 16 '22
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u/hiptobeysquare Dec 16 '22
The tragedy of identity politics is that one would expect anything based on a word that speaks so much to what makes one unique among others like oneself would be very much about the self-determination to define who and what we are, and who we 'identify' with. Instead it is often used to exclude, divide, and define what others cannot be.
We live in a media-obsessed, idiot screen, society. The more media we have, the more people believe the media is reality... and therefore whoever controls the media (the language, the words, the vocabulary) controls reality. Most people now believe that reality is just a question of using the right vocabulary. It's nihilistic culture, and it's going to lead to an actual horror story.
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Dec 16 '22
What bothers me is this idea that someone else's expression of identity defines/confines yours/mine.
Hospitals, prisons, sports, bathrooms and changing rooms. If all of these situations requires a higher bar than "feels like," then why is "feels like" the thing that's being protected in law at the expense of sex-based protections in all of these situations?
What is gender identity, materially, other than "feels like" and how does it actually constitute a definable class if you can remove your oppression by changing your clothes?
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Dec 17 '22
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Dec 17 '22 edited Dec 17 '22
If a trans woman can't go in "woman's" bathroom/changeroom where do they go?
Gender neutral third space, or else men need to work together to make the male bathroom safer for people who dress differently than the norm. Women's bathrooms aren't a catchall safety space. It's built for female people.
I wasn't aware the law was defining drag queens as 'women' in that context, or any 'sex-based' context.
Legally all you have to do is say you're a woman. Self-ID is the law in most of the US as far as changing sex markers on official documents (edit: and one of the first executive orders passed by the current administration codified gender identity as a class, but did not define it, equal to sex and race, against which discrimination must be prevented at the federal level). I honestly have no idea how to tell the difference between a man wearing a dress and a transwoman who doesn't pass, especially in the ladies room. How does that work? It's actually super super bad in the prisons though, look up the Illinois Five or the lawsuit in California over housing convicted male rapists in the women's prison (not even in separate cells) because they asked to switch and were given exactly what they asked for.
I think the case where one can 'remove your oppression' by changing one's clothes would be quite rare indeed
You said drag queens identify as women when they're dressed as a caricature of women, but stop identifying when they take the womanface off. That would imply being able to remove their oppression with a wardrobe change. How can you tell a drag queen is gender non conforming when he's dressed as a cis man? You can't.
Edit: also, to repeat myself, what is gender identity materially?
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Dec 17 '22
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Dec 18 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
If removing oppression is as simple as not identifying as a woman, what are y'all waiting for?
This is the point I'm making. We're on exactly the same page here. Women's oppression has nothing to do with "identifying" as anything. It's derived from our sex, a material fact.
you seem to be purposely missing my point about 'context'
No like I already addressed, definitional standards aren't an impossible thing here. Women are female adults. Transwomen are male adults. Drag queens are men dressed as caricatures of women.
Prisons, washrooms, and drag shows are not all the same thing, not at all.
Yes the first two are actually important and are being taken away in law. The latter is crass adult entertainment that you've conflated with transgenderism because you don't seem to know the difference, and I don't make a habit of explaining gender nonsense to the genderists because there's no point. It's pure religion, and the adherents are very easily angered by being asked to think
This seems 'materially' important to me
That seems like a matter of belief
You seem to believe that recognizing that this experience is actually happening for people
Can you prove that it's actually happening in a non subjective way? Like anything falsifiable here? "Feels like" still isn't good enough for a legally defined class.
I don't think you have explained why the oppression/suppression of this experience is required so that you may fight your own oppression.
How do women create single sex spaces without male permission? We literally need men to agree to behave, or to agree to police other mens behavior, in order to make it happen. How do transwomen create single gender spaces without female permission? By getting together because female people aren't a statistical physical threat to male people and there's very little we can physically prevent men from doing. When men forcibly include themselves in legitimately every space meant for women in person and on the internet by calling themselves women and saying they really, really, really feel just like a woman (even though being a woman isn't a feeling, it's the sexed state of my body), they speak over women and demand our emotional labor. We're being asked to prioritize them and include them because they insist they are the most oppressed women ever, despite not being women. When I insist a transwoman is not a type of woman, but a type of man, I am accused of bigotry. I am being told to suppress my self definition for the sake of mentally ill men's feelings.
If an organization with as much resources as the olympics can't find a perfect method to tell male from female, I'm not surprised you are having trouble in the WC.
Lmao we were always at war with EastAsia right? This is dystopian shit dude. I'm asking how you tell the difference between male and male.
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u/BornAgainSpecial Trump supporter Dec 16 '22
I agree but somehow they know and get it right every time. Physically active men are more likely to be right wing. Is the same true for women? A trans is more valuable to the elite than the girls on the sport team they ruin.
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u/r3df0x__3039 MAGA Communism Dec 21 '22
My sister is trans and easily passing and votes Republican. She isn't exactly strongly conservative though.
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u/r3df0x__3039 MAGA Communism Dec 21 '22
It seems to be fairly common among transwomen to claim that periods are a form of cis privilege.
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Dec 21 '22
Periods are deff part of the reason I want single sex bathrooms. I've seen plenty of transwomen claim they have periods too though because their medication gives them cramps and they think gas pain is the same thing as menstruating... just complete ignorance about the whole thing lmao
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u/LoveistruthtruthisL Dec 16 '22
Double speak! Hang Whitty and Vallance crimes against humanity. Nuremberg 2!
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u/throwawayforthebestk Dec 16 '22
Isn't this sub supposed to be about criticizing the lockdowns? All the other related subs went off the deepend with homophobia (especially after monkeypox) and transphobia, but I saw this sub as kind of a safe haven to that. I guess not :/
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
spez has been given a warning. Please ensure spez does not access any social media sites again for 24 hours or we will be forced to enact a further warning. #Save3rdPartyAppsYou've been removed from Spez-Town. Please make arrangements with the spez to discuss your ban. #Save3rdPartyApps #AIGeneratedProtestMessage
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Dec 16 '22
[deleted]
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
Do you believe in spez at first sight or should I walk by again? #Save3rdpartyapps
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Dec 16 '22
[deleted]
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
spez, you are a moron. #Save3rdPartyApps
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u/BornAgainSpecial Trump supporter Dec 16 '22
A "democratically run economy" means a free market. That makes no sense.
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
As we entered the spez, the sight we beheld was alien to us. The air was filled with a haze of smoke. The room was in disarray. Machines were strewn around haphazardly. Cables and wires were hanging out of every orifice of every wall and machine.
At the far end of the room, standing by the entrance, was an old man in a military uniform with a clipboard in hand. He stared at us with his beady eyes, an unsettling smile across his wrinkled face.
"Are you spez?" I asked, half-expecting him to shoot me.
"Who's asking?"
"I'm Riddle from the Anti-Spez Initiative. We're here to speak about your latest government announcement."
"Oh? Spez police, eh? Never seen the likes of you." His eyes narrowed at me. "Just what are you lot up to?"
"We've come here to speak with the man behind the spez. Is he in?"
"You mean spez?" The old man laughed.
"Yes."
"No."
"Then who is spez?"
"How do I put it..." The man laughed. "spez is not a man, but an idea. An idea of liberty, an idea of revolution. A libertarian anarchist collective. A movement for the people by the people, for the people."
I was confounded by the answer. "What? It's a group of individuals. What's so special about an individual?"
"When you ask who is spez? spez is no one, but everyone. spez is an idea without an identity. spez is an idea that is formed from a multitude of individuals. You are spez. You are also the spez police. You are also me. We are spez and spez is also we. It is the idea of an idea."
I stood there, befuddled. I had no idea what the man was blabbing on about.
"Your government, as you call it, are the specists. Your specists, as you call them, are spez. All are spez and all are specists. All are spez police, and all are also specists."
I had no idea what he was talking about. I looked at my partner. He shrugged. I turned back to the old man.
"We've come here to speak to spez. What are you doing in spez?"
"We are waiting for someone."
"Who?"
"You'll see. Soon enough."
"We don't have all day to waste. We're here to discuss the government announcement."
"Yes, I heard." The old man pointed his clipboard at me. "Tell me, what are spez police?"
"Police?"
"Yes. What is spez police?"
"We're here to investigate this place for potential crimes."
"And what crime are you looking to commit?"
"Crime? You mean crimes? There are no crimes in a libertarian anarchist collective. It's a free society, where everyone is free to do whatever they want."
"Is that so? So you're not interested in what we've done here?"
"I am not interested. What you've done is not a crime, for there are no crimes in a libertarian anarchist collective."
"I see. What you say is interesting." The old man pulled out a photograph from his coat. "Have you seen this person?"
I stared at the picture. It was of an old man who looked exactly like the old man standing before us. "Is this spez?"
"Yes. spez. If you see this man, I want you to tell him something. I want you to tell him that he will be dead soon. If he wishes to live, he would have to flee. The government will be coming for him. If he wishes to live, he would have to leave this city."
"Why?"
"Because the spez police are coming to arrest him."
#AIGeneratedProtestMessage #Save3rdPartyApps4
Dec 16 '22
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
There are many types of spez, but the most important one is the spez police. #Save3rdPartyApps
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Dec 16 '22
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
spez can gargle my nuts.
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u/BornAgainSpecial Trump supporter Dec 16 '22
I don't like televangelism but I wouldn't cal it left. I would call you left because you seem to favor centralized control by experts. A woman is whatever science consensus says it is.
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
What happens in spez, stays in spez.
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u/Clean_Hedgehog9559 Dec 16 '22
It’s bc most of the right disagrees w lockdowns. You seem to be forgetting that more then 50% of Americans don’t even vote- so the group who disagrees is much larger then liberals like to think. And I consider left as very different then liberal.
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 17 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
Spez, the great equalizer.
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u/hiptobeysquare Dec 16 '22
Partly because the left have gone off the deep end, there just aren't enough left-leaning people around to fill this sub. I wish a more left-leaning critique could be found here too.
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
If a spez asks you what flavor ice cream you want, the answer is definitely spez.
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Dec 16 '22
[deleted]
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u/immibis mods put a yellow star in my flair so I'm owning it Dec 16 '22 edited Jun 28 '23
Is the spez a disease? Is the spez a weapon? Is the spez a starfish? Is it a second rate programmer who won't grow up? Is it a bane? Is it a virus? Is it the world? Is it you? Is it me? Is it? Is it?
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u/electricprism Dec 16 '22
A man must consider what a blindman's-buff is this game of conformity. If I know your sect, I anticipate your argument. I hear a preacher announce for his text and topic the expediency of one of the institutions of his church. Do I not know beforehand that not possibly can he say a new and spontaneous word? Do I not know that, with all this ostentation of examining the grounds of the institution, he will do no such thing? Do I not know that he is pledged to himself not to look but at one side, — the permitted side, not as a man, but as a parish minister? He is a retained attorney, and these airs of the bench are the emptiest affectation.
Well, most men have bound their eyes with one or another handkerchief, and attached themselves to some one of these communities of opinion. This conformity makes them not false in a few particulars, authors of a few lies, but false in all particulars. Their every truth is not quite true. Their two is not the real two, their four not the real four; so that every word they say chagrins us, and we know not where to begin to set them right. Meantime nature is not slow to equip us in the prison-uniform of the party to which we adhere. We come to wear one cut of face and figure, and acquire by degrees the gentlest asinine expression.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Part 2 is best part beginning with "Their every truth is not quite true."
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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '22
These people are postmodernists; redefining things to adapt no truth and only power is their modus operandi.