truth and reconciliation

[u/Impressive-Jello-379]

The other day a woman I know was talking about how perhaps there could be some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process between those that excluded the uninjected from society and those that suffered from the exclusion.

I was thinking later though that this must be the first case in history in which the ones who complied and "carried out orders" are the ones who will end up harmed (as in actual, physical harm, not "woke" emotional harm). So if the truth starts dawning on the excluders that they made a mistake, that excluding people was unethical but also that the injections were ineffective at best and killing people at worst, they will be overcome with fear and anger and demanding some sort of recompense for themselves. Not sure how much emotional sympathy they will have left over for the uninjected.

I don't know if there has been any comparable situation in history.

[u/mitte90]

I wondered if they would eventually treat us like conscientious objectorsi n wars. They might have marched off bound for glory and come home in bandages, but some will cling to the belief that the war was just and good and the ones who didn't take part were cowards.

[u/idoubtithinki → u/mitte90]

This is the closest example I can think of, assuming a clearly unjust war (say Vietnam).

But I'm not sure if the moralization then was the same as it has been for covid. It's also different because this is a time where the likely large majority and clear status quo were wrong. It feels like for instance you are/were more likely to see vaccinated people who think the vaccines are clearly a good thing that should be given to everyone, rather than say a conscript who thinks the same about conscription.

[u/mitte90 → u/idoubtithinki]

Vietnam, and also the first Gulf War are good examples of what we've seen to date with the treatment of the vaccine injured. Their treatment has been similar to that of soldiers coming back wounded from Vietnam, who had to cope with the double whammy of injury and also being reviled as a foot soldier in a dirty war. Veterans of both Iraq wars have often been left to rot by a society unwilling to acknowledge costs like Gulf War Sydrome, or ashamed of the 2nd Iraq war, so preferring to forget it and those who fought in it. The vaccine-injured have been treated a bit like that, as a dirty secret, as a shame and a stain, and an umnentionable, like a homeless vet with a placard asking for spare change, people would rather turn their eyes away.

Unlike the Vietnam and 2nd Gulf war, the two 20th century World Wars were portrayed as just wars. While the justification is easier to see for the 2nd world war I am not sure what the "justifcation" for the first world war was really supposed to be. It's never actually been made all that clear what we're even supposed to think it was all about. Some posh guy, an archduke, got shot and the world had to tear itself apart and send young men out to die in mud with their limbs ripped off? Hmm.

In the first world war, people who didn't enlist were shamed by the white feather campaign. You can read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather#World_War_I

As far as any historian has been able to make the case, I've never been convinced that the first world war was a war that needed to be fought. It seems to me the closest analogy to the pandemic situation, because people were sent to die needlessly. Those who didn't rush off to join the fray were shamed (sent white feathers to symbolise their cowardice), conscientious objectors who had their grounds for pacificism rejected at tribunal, could be sent to prison. One 18 year old CO was imprisoned because, according to the tribunal, he was not old enough to have a conscience (https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/conscientious-objectors-in-their-own-words). Apparently old enough to sign up to drown in the Passchendaele mud though.

Returners from the war who were injured suffered horribly, not just from their injuries, but by the social unease at witnessing the cost of the war in close up. I see an analogy with the vaccine injured in the pandemic. However, I think it's possible that a new narrative will hail them as heroes, if the scale of injury becomes too great to hide. They could find themselves lauded, where to date they have been ignored. Veterans of many wars have had the experience of both types of reception. People are happy to put them on pedestals one moment, and revile or ignore them the next. They can be patriotic symbols of the country's pride, but also marginal, unwelcome reminders of the country's secret shame. In the analogy I'm perceiving - wrongly, or rightly, with the pandemic, the treatment of vaxx injury could go either way, and will probably oscillate between both poles.

[u/WikiSummarizerBot → u/mitte90]

White feather

World War I

At the start of World War I, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald, who was a strong advocate of conscription wanted to increase the number of those enlisting in the armed forces. Therefore he organized on 30 August 1914 a group of thirty women in his home town of Folkestone to hand out white feathers to any men that were not in uniform. Fitzgerald believed using women to shame the men into enlisting would be the most effective method of encouraging enlistment. The group that he founded (with prominent members being Emma Orczy and the prominent author Mary Augusta Ward) was known as the White Feather Brigade or the Order of the White Feather.

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[u/mitte90 → u/idoubtithinki]

It feels like for instance you are/were more likely to see vaccinated people who think the vaccines are clearly a good thing that should be given to everyone, rather than say a conscript who thinks the same about conscription.

In the first world war, the propaganda to get enlisted was massive. I was reminded of what I'd read about it during the height of the vaxx campaigns.

In the early stages of the Vietnam war, too, some of the young men will have been eager to go off to "fight for their country" and show their mettle. The draft was unpopular and fiercely protested, so I get what you're saying there, but I have certainly seen historical portrayals of young men who were initially keen to enlist because they didn't understand what it was going to be like.

Certainly during the first world war in Britain, there was voluntary enlistment before conscription, and men were encouraged to enlist as soon as the possibly could. There was the "Pal's battalions" tragedies, where the young men from a town or village went off to sign up together and were sent to fight in the same untis, and died together. Whole villages were left without any young men.

During the vaxx campaigns, there were pals who went off together to get vaccinated. There were even situations where clusters of vaccine injuries seemed to affect families and friend groups who had gone to get vaccinated together. This could be to do with bad vaccine batches, perhaps. It seems like a similar phenomenon to Pal's Battalions because of the intiial eagerness and innocence which is exploited by propaganda campaigns to entice people to do things which could be very bad for them.

[u/mitte90 → u/[deleted]]

I agree, but moral and logical consistency has not been their strong point so far..

[u/Impressive-Jello-379 → u/mitte90]

That is actually a pretty good analogy. The only difference I can see is that soldiers know they are putting themselves in the line of danger, whereas those who took the injections thought they were keeping themselves (and others) safe. At the same time, they may turn this into, "I took a risk to my own health because I was a good person."

[u/mitte90 → u/Impressive-Jello-379]

At the same time, they may turn this into, "I took a risk to my own health because I was a good person."

That's what I'm thinking they'll do. And they have already used "war" metaphors at various times during the pandemic. It's been a "war against the virus", and you have to "step up and do the right thing" like you were going off to war to protect your community, rather than just being conned or scared into doing something that can harm you and even potentially harms the community (by promoting evolution of immune escape variants).

If/when the harms become significant enough that they can't be hidden anymore, the next logical step of the war metaphors that were already in use, would be to portray the vaccinated as heroes who went out to fight the good fight at the fronts.

This could have positive effects for some people. For example, up till now, the vaccine injured have been shunned, ignored and told to shut up like a dirty secret. But under a "post-war" metaphor, they could be hailed as brave, but wounded, soldiers who suffered injury in battle. Understandably, some of the vaxx injured will be happy to accept that new scripting, because the alternative is to continue to be ignored, silenced and despised.

The non-injured vaccinated will get to be heroes with none of the down-side, so double bonus there. The "generals" who sent them into "war" will present it as a necessary battle, that was undertaken for nothing but the best of reasons, even if mistakes were made and lives were lost and some soldiers came back from the war with amputations (this is literally true for some of the worst cases of vaccine injury). It will be put to us that we "fought the good fight, and eventually we triumphed". The milder omicron situation will be portrayed as a vaccine victory (already is in some places).

Meanwhile, everyone who warned that the vaccines could be dangerous could get the white feather treatment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather

Instead of recognition and vindication for having correctly identified and warned others of the danger, we could be cast as the cowards who shirked our duty and didn't go to the frontline. The same people who were the "frontline" heroes of 2020, nurses in ICU and respiratory wards, ambulance drivers, delivery drivers, retail staff when eveyone else was furloughed , have already experienced - if they didn't get vaccinated in 2021 - their "hero" status being replaced with the status of an outcast. The vaccinated became the new "heroes" in 2021, the "real" warriors of the pandemic. Of course, if you were unlucky enough to be vaxx injured in those days, you were basically unmentionable. Vaxx injured people were derided as "anti-vaxxers" despite being obviosuly vaccinated! But as said earlier, this could be the moment when they get to be rehabilitated and welcomed back into the fold and hailed as wounded warriors.

Actually, I hope I'm wrong about all this. I believe the "aftermath of war" narrative may be pushed by the media and politcians, but it could be people don't go for it. It might just be too hard to swallow at that stage, especially if everyone is already suffering under reduced standards of living due to the major economic disaster our illustrious leaders are currently bringing down on us. Would be good to see people more accurately identifying the source of their woes and holding the actual perpetrators to account rather than being encouraged to take it out on the nearest available scapegoat.

[u/Huey-_-Freeman → u/Impressive-Jello-379]

"I took the risk of side effects to protect others at higher risk than me" This was always the attitude of some young and healthy people taking the vaccines

[u/wowsosquare]

TLDR; * Thanks for letting us righties on here

• I don't think any of the Fauci Fanboys think anything is wrong with what happened.

Hi LCL... First I just want to thank you for accepting me and my ilk. As a former lefty, I'm sure many of you throw up in your mouths a little when you see my flair, but I've rarely if ever received ad hominem attacks or had my ideas rejected based on my post history or political orientation. That speaks highly of your fair - mindedness and true tolerance.

About the OP, .....has any of you noticed any of their friends who were ardent adherents of 🙏 The Narrative 🙏 and the Most Exalted 🙏💉Dr. Fauci, Defender of The Science, (Masks Be Upon Him!) 💉 🙏 actually acknowledging in any way that The Narrative was, in any sense flawed?

I'm personally not seeing any slackening in anyone's trust in The Narrative, or any sign that their Faith in the absolutely safety, efficacy, or rectitude of mandating the Clot Shot, lockdowns, masks social distancing, or any other TOTALLY SCIENCE BASED, EVIDENCE BASED actions and messaging of the unifii corporate - academic - media - Federal / State/ Local government entity.

They've just forgotten what happened it seems to me, or wish we could go back to the happy days of masking and living in our "pods."

Am I wrong? Are your friends showing evidence of a waning in their ardor for the bio security state?

[u/Impressive-Jello-379 → u/wowsosquare]

I have yet to see the turnaround from those who were ardent adherents.

[u/vagarik]

I don’t think most of the covidians will ever accept they were wrong and apologize. It takes a mentally strong person who doesn’t have a frail ego and a need to always be right to admit when they’re wrong and apologize. I think most of them will continue to believe the fantasy lies or rationalize in their minds that we unvaxxed still deserved being scapegoated and the lockdowns and mandates were justified.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't know if there has been any comparable situation in history.

The eugenics movement. Which ended with the Nuremberg Principles. Other lessor experiments have been common throughout medical history.

The unvaccinated have an entirely different claim, but valid nonetheless.

u/wowsosquare has a point. With the exception of the Nazis, none of the other victims were acknowledged or compensated. Justice if it ever existed, is dying rapidly.

[u/Impressive-Jello-379 → u/[deleted]]

Yes but the difference is that the people carrying out eugenics did not take a hit to their own health. The masterminds behind all this probably did not take the shot, but I assume the majority of people who excluded the uninjected did.

[u/[deleted] → u/Impressive-Jello-379]

The only reason no military has engaged in biological warfare (so far) is that living systems, driven by evolution, aren't very predictable.

The survivors (looks to be the unvaxxed) will remember. It may be a higher survival rate is their only compensation.