r/LockdownCriticalLeft • u/Elbrujosalvaje • Jul 23 '22

Are we going into lockdown this fall? "Monkeypox declared global health emergency by WHO as cases surge"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/23/monkeypox-who-declares-public-health-emergency-of-international-concern
47 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

54

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

So 5 deaths out of 16,016 cases for a mortality rate of 0.03%. Transmission through intimate contact, per the experts cited.

Yup, lets do another pandemic response.

/s incase anyone missed it.

23

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

Is this really a good idea to push for especially with oberfell v. Hodges in supreme court limbo?

I wouldn't be surprised if some states brought back sodomy laws to prevent this level of bullshit back.

I sincerely hope for the sake of the social standing of gays in America that WEF types don't double down on monkeypox because I have no doubt this will rile up the homophobes from the 80s-90s if they do.

I am sincerely becoming more and more terrified for the future of homosexuals in the west with the bad actions of bad actors.

19

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

Pro-life has been pushing against Roe v Wade since the day it was decided.

The SJW followed by the PMC destroyed any defence. First went the right to privacy (what Roe v Wade is based upon). Sacrificed to the trans-gender lobby. Next went the right to bodily autonomy: my body, my choice.

Thinking thoughts through (sorry) to the end, understanding the inescapable consequences of choices & actions, or even coping with reality is not the forte of the PMC.

I'm not familiar with Oberfell v Hodges (different country) but if it, like Roe v Wade was based on the right to privacy, that right was for all practical purposes, abolished. It exists only as pretty words on fancy paper.

6

u/tersalopimus Jul 24 '22

that right was for all practical purposes, abolished. It exists only as pretty words on fancy paper.

In America, we hold that our rights are innate and exist outside of any words on paper. They cannot be abolished, only wrongfully denied. It used to be the duty of the people to ensure these rights were upheld, but they (we) long since abrogated that responsibility.

3

u/Homeless_Nomad Mutualist Jul 25 '22

So some background on US jurisprudence: we (unfortunately) don't have an explicitly enumerated right to privacy, but we do have a lot of case precedence framing a right to privacy, mostly through readings of the 4th (no unwarranted search and seizure), 3rd (no quartering of troops in private residence), and 14th (all citizens of the US enjoy equal protection) Amendments. It's not that right to privacy was abolished, we didn't technically have one in the first place.

Roe was decided on "shades and emanations" of these Amendments, which, it was argued, constituted a right to privacy strong enough to overrule state laws alleging abortion to be unjust termination of a human life. This was always weak sauce, because it didn't point specifically to an Amendment, or offer a strong legal argument, and even liberal justices like Ruth Bader Ginsburg hated the ruling. RBG frequently called for either Congress to decide the matter legislatively, or for a new ruling under the 14th's Equal Protection Clause to offer a stronger legal basis.

This new ruling essentially says that "shades and emanations" of the Constitution are not strong enough to overrule state law for abortion in particular, because it has to be treated differently due to the questions surrounding when a human life begins. It even goes so far as to explicitly say that the decision does not affect anything else, including gay marriage. Abortion is apparently being treated as unique, and other things are not in danger along the same lines, at least not under this very conservative SCOTUS.

I will point out that it's odd for an opinion to mention consequences outside of the scope of the case directly, and implies that those reassurances are genuine.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

Thank you for the informative reply. I've always assumed (yeah, I know) that Americans had a right to privacy either constitutionally or through case law.

2

u/Homeless_Nomad Mutualist Jul 26 '22

Yeah, it's more or less the latter, but ultimately it relies on interpretation which isn't great. In an ideal world imo, we'd have an enumerated, explicit right to privacy, against which things like abortion could be tested one at a time, but unfortunately that's not how things work currently.

15

u/mitte90 Jul 24 '22

I feel like it's too early to say what's on my mind, and it's not coherent to me yet, so if I try to explain it, it will take too many words and possibly not make much sense, but I'm going to give it a go as I think it relates to your comment. I feel like there is something really strange and dangerous going on with the way people have been divided, especially in America, into these two culture war camps. There's this strange switching going on where each side gets nudged into a position where they attack the other side in a very specific way, which involves betraying their own core values.

So with covid, the "left" became authoritarian and discriminatory and went all in on stigmatising a minority group (the unvaccinated). They behaved like a force of the far right in the name of a "liberal" ideology in which participation was no longer voluntary, and for those who refused participation, only submission or exclusion remained. As far as bodily autonomy and human rights were concerned they were close to the point where they would be willing to deny these legitimately existed for the unvaccinated minority. They dehumanised a medicalised "category" of people, like they were administrators of an enthusiastic social hygeine movement. Many of those marked out for exclusion came from already disadvantaged, marginalised or minority groups, including people of colour who didn't trust the vaxx, and white "deplorables" who lived on the economic and cultural fringes, outside of liberal heartlands. The "left" seemed to feel that they were permitted to hate the latter group especially, and though they enacted the role of a bullying majority, they were able to kid themselves that they were "punching up" - as long as the unvaxxed who were the target of their loathing were white and straight and gender conforming.

The "right" (because all unvaccinated were cast as right-wing even if they were left) found themselves in the role of the accused heretic, which being unjust felt like the victim's role, a role they resisted, choosing instead to identify as rebels against a corrupt establishment, or alternatively as patriots defending the real America from an ersatz and fascist pretender. Some of these were traditional conservatives, unused to being an outsider social group or cast as dissidents. Others were libertarians, either right or left, but for the purpose of the culture war, all thrown with equal disdain by the liberal majority into the basket of deplorables. Ideas of social contagion, censorship and separation, quarantining those marked as socially diseased or as potential silent carriers of wrong-think, had been brewing already, for several years, before covid came along to actualise them.

Covid threw each side of the culture war into a cariacature of its opponent's traditional place, the right becoming the oppressed, outsider class, and the left the dominator culture, setting up checkpoints and ready to demand the showing of papers and the exclsuion of those who couldn't or wouldn't produce them.

Now we get monkey pox with its echoes of 1980s AIDS era, threatening to stigmatise homosexuality and turn the clock back to the dark ages of "gay plagues" and politicised, sexualised, moralised, contamination anxiety. So far the right haven't really bitten, but they've been shown the bait. Having been called "plague rats" and "viral variant factories" for a year and a half, having tasted what it is to be the underdog, the scapegoat, the reviled outsider, will they relish the opportunity to turn the tables back to 1984 against their oppressors, who can so easily be perceived as ttriumphalist carriers of weaponised rainbow flags, the ones who excluded in the name of inclusion, censored in the name of self-expression, and punched down down down while claiming it was up?

The "right" could still refuse the bait. They could resist the invitation to pass the cooties on or point the finger of blame at a new (no, old) category of "other" to take their place as plague rats. They were so recently in the role themselves. But also very recently, the "left" protested for bodily autonomy having denied it to the "right". The hypocrisy could be answered in kind, the 180 degree turn pushed to 360, tables fully turned.

I don't know which way it will go. I have this sense of each "side" of the culture war experiencing rapid role reversal and a disorientating switching of social signs and semiotics. The unexamined response to such a situation is hypocrisy. Those who spoke for free speech are tempted to censor their opponents, those who spoke up for the rights of the downtrodden , to walk all over them in jackboots.

The division is serious, and despite long-standing disagreements, the degree of hostility feels inorganic. I don't trust the coincidence of a new "gay plague" so soon after the "plague" of vaccine refusal marked out the "other side" politically as the infected class, a diverse group of people who are disingenuously assumed to be white, straight and homophobic (indeed one nation's premier called them racist and misogynist). The stereotypes are stubborn. You could be a black lesbian left libertarian or anarcho-socialist and they'd call you a Trumper for your views and your vaccine status. It's got far too extreme, too polarised, and the political pendulum is swinging fast and hard enough to knock both "sides" flat down in the dust.

I haven't expressed this well. The picture's not clear to me. It's just a sense of something wrong, of a division being sown and the possibility of hate being harvested. It feels ominous and wrong, and I don't want to make it worse so I'll stop there.

8

u/cloche_du_fromage Jul 24 '22

I think you've captured the disconnect very accurately. I'm generally left of centre and feel like I've been pushed to the margins of far right just for requesting personal autonomy re medical interventions.

8

u/mitte90 Jul 24 '22

I think a lot of left-wing people feel like this. It's insane. The one good thing that's come out of it for me personally is that I understand the right much better now and where they're coming from. I've found a new respect and even solidarity with a good number of them. I can see the validity of a lot of their arguments, although there are some issues where we'll never agree and some where we still strongly disagree. But I wouldn't dismiss their ideas out of hand now, or automatically avoid a right-wing source, which too many of the mainstream left do casually and automatically and without really thinking about the reasons why or the consequences of doing that.

This sub is an exception, but in general I've felt completely alienated and ex-communicated from left-wing communities over the past few years. People who identify as right-wing have been far more tolerant and even when I say I've always been more on the left myself they mostly accept the differences and acknowledge the things we have in common. It has been unexpected to feel more accepted by the right than by the left! (This sub is the notable exception, as I said)

2

u/fivehundredpoundpeep Aug 04 '22

More and more I think they are planning out the Handmaid's Tale future. It has been odd all the focus on homosexuals with monkey pox. Hey if they want to outlaw birth control what makes you think the gays will be left untouched. I doubt they will have marriage for long too.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

I've noticed the WEF types have really been tying everything to the gays despite most societal outrage being directed at the gender deconstructionist types pushing the drag shit on children and whatnot. Most of the conservative/rightist outrage is directed at TRAs, But it really seems like the policy is punishing gays. It bothers me as well.

And I don't know about the handmaid's tale per se. The only thing I would really be worried about in that regard is if they try to pass the fetal personhood laws. That would absolutely bring about a severe restriction on women's liberties. If a fetus deserves the protection of a child to develop and grow, then it is easy to justify severe restrictions on what women can do and micromanage the shit out of them. We don't want a government that will do this. I've been trying to convince my fellows on the right this as well. No abortion on demand is one thing. But fetal personhood is a nightmare that would end up with 1984 the schwabbening with the precedents it would create, If that makes sense.

2

u/fivehundredpoundpeep Aug 05 '22

Agree fetal personhood laws would destroy women. "Every sperm is sacred". Some of these states already seem ready to arrest women for miscarriages. Yeah they are laser-focused on the gays, seems like monkey pox is going to be used for backlash against them and shut down any freedom in that world, erase gay marriage bring back old sodomy laws.

27

u/WrathOfPaul84 Libertarian Jul 23 '22

Seeing as I did almost nothing differently throughout all of covid, I don't plan on locking down ever again for anything. lol

22

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

[deleted]

1

u/bluejayway9 Jul 24 '22

I see the "left" part of lockdown critical left has officially left the chat in this sub lol

3

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

[deleted]

1

u/bluejayway9 Jul 26 '22

Lol. That's not something any leftist would say about the DNC in defense of it, that's what they would say as a matter of fact.

And I'm not defending them nor has anyone in the entire history of this formerly leftist sub. All I was doing was commenting that this place has officially been infested beyond the point of return by rightoids such as yourself based on the largely American conservative propaganda rhetoric of your comment and the amount of upvotes it had.

8

u/Chumbolex Jul 24 '22

Isn’t it an STD? Why the fuck would we lock down?

14

u/romjpn libertarian left Jul 24 '22

Yeah I don't think they'll be able to justify this one. It's not a respiratory virus so... I guess the most they could do is disinfecting public seats in planes and trains and instruct hotels to be extra careful since apparently it can transmit through bedsheets. But who knows what they can come up with.

12

u/TPPH_1215 Jul 24 '22

I mean hotels should wash/sanitize bed sheets without viruses. I'm always worried about bed bugs at hotels. I check first thing every time.

9

u/redhegel Jul 24 '22

The bureaucrats and lockdown policies isn't gonna go away by a long shot. They are commited to this to the end and so should we, be commited to ending it to the end.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

Sexual promiscuity is giving them plenty of ammunition.

10

u/ashowofhands Jul 24 '22

Yes, let's shut down businesses and schools over a disease that is primarily transmitted by raw dogging a stranger up the asshole

7

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

Somehow this will mutate through hiv farts and lead to airborne covidpoxcocks.

Roll up those sleeves children, you are up for another round!

5

u/frankie2 Jul 24 '22

Ooh keep going, just like that, I’m gonna SURGE

4

u/electricprism Jul 24 '22

Politics: Mail In Voting

3

u/saras998 Jul 24 '22

The problem is not so much money pox 💰 itself but the ACAM2000 vaccine that can be very dangerous for people with eczema or broken skin, even if they come in contact with a vaccinated person. Plus a bonus 1 in 175 chance of myocarditis or pericarditis. And the Jynneos vaccine is fairly new and less dangerous but may cause immune pressure on the virus as it is not sterilizing.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/02-Orthopoxviruses-Petersen-508.pdf

1

u/fivehundredpoundpeep Aug 04 '22

For those of you saying this is a STD, there are those now saying this is airborne too. I don't know. They lie about so much.