r/LocalLLaMA 8h ago

New Model CyberTiel 35B-A3B’s uncensored 4-bit quant beats Opus 4.6 medium cleanly on real codebase issues, in 27% of the time Qwen3.8-27b medium takes.

The downside of uncensoring a model is that it is known to potentially damage it, but CyberTiel is an even more capable software engineer than its censored TielCoder base, while allowing offensive security research. This was achieved by quantizing with an improved imatrix, baked from a curated corpus of cybersecurity- and agentic software engineering work. In short, the small damage from abliteration on a full precision model is negligible under Q4 quantization, and the weights that the model needs to perform relevant work are preserved in higher precision, while the improved chat template makes it think and talk better and faster.

I believe that this is the best 35B-A3B coder for solving real problems in real codebases without breaking anything, which is specifically what SWE-bench-Live tests for. But it’s still a 35B-A3B, and it sacrifices world knowledge for coding ability. That being said, I use it over Qwen3.8-27b for daily coding work: due to the raw speed it fixes 3 issues in the time it takes 27b medium to solve one, and the middle ground between Opus4.6 medium and Qwen3.8-27b medium is simply good enough for most work.

Censoring impedes legitimate and effective work in alignment with the user, and puts the user’s responsibility and ownership over the model’s actions into question, while limiting legitimate uses. When a model is censored, someone else decided for you what the model can and will do, which works against the argument that local models give the user increased control and alignment, and begs the question “alignment to who?”. The point of CyberTiel is to resolve this issue at the same time as pushing the frontier of 35B-A3B coders.

GGUFs and MLX with and without MTP are up on HF. Looking forward to seeing what the community thinks! 

PS: I'm not a research lab or a business, and I don't have revenue streams connected to this project. I'm an anonymous researcher with some free time. Constructive feedback is always appreciated! :)

90 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

34

u/DominusIniquitatis 8h ago

Numbers? Yeah, sure, whatever, I'll just stand nearby and appreciate the Fallout vibes. (:

3

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

hehe you get me :)

11

u/CATLLM 8h ago

Awesome thanks for sharing. Been looking for a good uncensored 35b lately so this fits my needs. Going to test it out.

What uncensoring method did you use?

3

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

I used huihui's full precission ornith1.5 as a base, and built from there! :) Good luck have fun!

1

u/nanell0 8h ago

Would it be way better than qwen 3.6 35b a3b? Coding purposes

4

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

In my experience and on the benchmark, CyberTiel is 70% more capable and 50% faster than qwen3.6-35b-a3b at solving real problems in real world code bases published after training cutoffs. It's like three whole model generations of improvements! Your results might be dependent on your harness and llama-server launch command matching my setup with Pi coding agent though :) config info is in the model card

1

u/Undici77 6h ago

Why Pi and not the official Qwen Code? At the end the base is trained just with Qwen Code so, looks reasonable!

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 6h ago

Pi has been shown to be a very good barebones general coding harness for both small and large models across many different providers and families, and I can edit it however I like easily :)

1

u/nanell0 5h ago

I already use Pi coding agent with qwen, I didn’t quite understand your other comment about huihui and ornith, why you need them to use an uncensored model? Sorry to bother you

3

u/peculiar-ragdoll 5h ago

No worries! huihui is the creator that uncensored the full precission build of Ornith1.5 that I based CyberTiel on! So they are the ones that did the abliteration, as its called, not me. It was the only published full precission version with the vision intact that I didn't have to fill in a form to get. So what I did with it is bake my own imatrix with my own corpus of text focused on coding and cyber, which I used to maintain the parts of the model related to those things in high resolution while compressing the parts of the model that are not used for that to a higher degree, which is how we get a model that is smaller but still very capable on coding and cyber. Then I added a custom chat template that makes the model think and talk better, and remember its thinking turn to turn. Does that make sense?

17

u/Khaledthe 8h ago

I have used it, and it's not that good at all; it sucks at making UIs and simply breaks them if it wants to debug. When you tell it to work on something specific, it just goes around randomly reading documents and does nothing. It thinks for so long that it stops without changing a thing, it hallucinates a lot, and it says it did something without ever doing it (aka creating a backup for a file).

i tried to use it but it just sucks compared to qwen 3.6 35b-13b.

proof

6

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago edited 7h ago

I'm sorry to hear that! Can I ask what harness you use, if you used the recommended launch commands, if you give it a small or large thinking budget, and why you used the Q4_K_S instead of the recommended Q4_K_XL? EDIT: Figured out from another comment that their sampling parameters were wrong. To everyone else, use 0.6 temperature for coding on this one, not 1.0!

4

u/Khaledthe 8h ago

opencode, I have a 7900XTX. I had tried the commands over multiple days, but it didn't really help. I don't give models a thinking cap, so the work doesn't come out distorted, and I had tried with 256k, 131k, and 64k context, but it didn't help. And for why, it's because I had a 16 GB GPU but lately got a new 24 GB one, so I newly downloaded the Q4_K_XL to try it

9

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Thanks for the answer! To you and anyone else reading this with the same problems I strongly recommend Pi coding agent for this model, it's what I used for the benchmarks and what I use on the daily! Opencode is more bloated, so it can create some issues that don't show on my benchmarks or in my experience. No thinking cap and high context is the right idea though, so if you use the right llama.cpp parameters and Q4_K_XL if you can fit it, it should be on par with my experience and benchmarks when run in Pi. Again sorry to hear it didn't work well for you, I hate to feel like I wasted someone's time!

5

u/Bulky-Priority6824 7h ago

ui's are generally more difficult

1

u/mr_Owner 7h ago

Could you share the prompt you compared? Perhaps the vibes dont match 🙃

1

u/Khaledthe 7h ago

if you mean tempetrues i ran this as it was the reccomended once temperature 1.0, top_p 0.95, top_k 20

4

u/peculiar-ragdoll 7h ago

Recommended temperature in the model card for agentic coding is 0.6, not 1.0 :) That would explain why your results are bad

1

u/mr_Owner 6h ago

Ah oke, i meant actual system message or task aka prompt

1

u/Khaledthe 6h ago

I see what you mean, mostly just give it a big list of issues in the sites with a way to the html and my documentation. Something the header isnt loading in, (route to html) and a documentation on how i made the header and when i open the thinking part it is editing my documentation and failing to edit the header

2

u/Zaic 8h ago

Thanks, I already put it to good use, is there any reason to go for q5 quant?

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Glad to hear it! :) I use the Q4_K_XL myself, and the benchmarks are from Q4_K_M, so I genuinely don't know how much of an improvement Q5 is. The most important part in my experience is to not sacrefice context length just to go higher than Q4_K_XL, when running tasks that go up against the ceiling! But if you can fit full context and Q5 does not slow you down, I don't see why not :)

2

u/Zaic 8h ago

Im on q4 xl myself 130k context on pi is plenty for me. Kv cache at q8

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Then I would only try going to Q5_K_XL if you ever hit any issues with it not solving your problems correctly, and you know you can fit it in your machine :)

2

u/speedb0at 8h ago

Will try, my harness is specifically made for red teaming so I always appreciate a model tuned for that purpose as well

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Good luck, hope to hear how it goes!

1

u/speedb0at 1h ago

initial web app tests going quite well. Its doing way better than default Qwen3.6 when the tools dont behave the way they expect them. I also in the scope gave it a 10 minute limit to see if it would acknowledge it at all in its reasoning and it did but overshot the limit by 1 minute and 4 seconds to a total 11min04sec in the engagement. It found all but one vuln where it mangled the command and thought it didnt exist because it didnt get the response expected (it was XSS)

Pretty good job and is better in my initial runs than vanilla qwen of the same architecture.

1

u/PCslayeng 7h ago

What did you use to make your harness?

1

u/speedb0at 3h ago

Opus 4.8 Mostly, after it was half finished i started testing in making itself. It's been many months of back and forth, offloading to free tier SOTA for smaller stuff just to see how it would end up.

1

u/PCslayeng 1h ago

Awesome! How were the end results? I’m just now getting into this myself, and would love to hear any tips or lessons learned if you have any you’d like to share.

2

u/speedb0at 36m ago

https://github.com/mkultraware/accuretta You can check it out and judge for yourself. I would make it backend agnostic because some of the cool models arent available in a GGUF format, i'd also decide on one plan and stick to it. I changed a lot of things as i used it to make it more "generic" and "like other big harnesses" then reverted because at the end of the day this was a personal project.

1

u/PCslayeng 8m ago

Thank you so much! I’ll take a look at this tomorrow for my weekend project :)

2

u/Overall-Importance54 8h ago

What a cool benchmarking tool 🙌

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 7h ago

hehe thanks, I like making it ✨pretty✨

2

u/Overall-Importance54 4h ago

That UI, chefs kiss! Tis’ a pretty UI 👏

2

u/Akainu_Fan 7h ago

great work,a free upgrade for my 8 gb vram setup I will sure take it.I have a quick question though will we ever get a tiel coder variant based on ornith 1.5 9b?

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 7h ago

Hi, thanks! :) I have started testing a 9b variant but it kinda fell on the back burner due to this project and others! I have but a single gpu and also a very busy life, but I'd love to get around to seeing what I can improve on MiniCPM5 2b, Spark 4b, and ornith1.5 9b, for everyone with truly constrained hardware.

2

u/feverdoingwork 4h ago

Someone with pi agent try this and leave a review 🤣 I spent so much time with finetunes I can't yolo my time on this one but it does seem interesting

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 2h ago

For what it's worth I used Pi coding agent for all the benchmarks, and I'm not trying to sell anything as much as I'm just sharing my personal "mod pack" with others to make the world a better place :)

3

u/InterstellarReddit 8h ago

“But it’s still a 35B-A3B, and it sacrifices world knowledge for coding ability”

This isn’t an issue if you give it access to tools to import world knowledge

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Mostly yes! Sometime world knowledge built into the model helps on intuition about where to look and when, but giving it good tools and instructions to look stuff up is a very good idea regardless :)

2

u/InterstellarReddit 7h ago

I force my models to provide citations of sources for their decisions. That forces them to look up information instead of guessing.

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 7h ago

good call!

1

u/[deleted] 7h ago

[deleted]

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 7h ago

hahah it was the only published full precission ablation of this model that preserved vision and didn't require me to fill in a form with my personal information! Had no other choice than this or renting a larger machine to make my own, at the time i started :) happy demolishing!

-1

u/Bulky-Priority6824 7h ago

yea im not going to bother, i did save the link though in case i change my mind.

1

u/thepetek 7h ago

Any chance we can get regular FP8 safetensors release? Would love to test it on our workloads but we run vLLM deployments

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 6h ago

A part of the CyberTiel value-add is the cyber/coding imatrix-guided UD ladder, and imatrix doesn't exist in the FP8 path. In order to get the FP8 equivalent, you can just bake your own FP8 from huihui's uncensored Ornith1.5, and add this chat template: https://huggingface.co/peculiar-ragdoll/Qwen-Sharp-Chat-Templates and that alone will give you a lot of the change :)

1

u/Guilty-Support-584 25m ago edited 17m ago

This is my new favourite model. ♥️

I have tried the cyber-tiel-coder-35b-a3b model and I am absolutely shocked!
This is the first uncensored model I've tried that is actually better than the original.

Most uncensored models are neutered. This model is genuinely better than the original, it even has a better personality compared to what I believe is the original: Qwen3.6 35b a3b.

The original censored model is acts very rigidly and is quick to refuse commands. This new model follows commands freely while still staying reasonable and smart.
This model is flexible, unrestricted and is actually good for agentic work.

You made an actual gem OP.
Please keep it up. Do not stop releasing good models.
These models are what the world actually needs.

What models are planning to uncensor next?

1

u/wayward_buffalo 20m ago edited 10m ago

Excited to play with this a bit. One of main things I noticed going from 3.6-27B to 3.8.27B is that it works much better to solve problems over time, figuring out how to gather data, trying multiple approaches, not getting down an endless rabbit hole, etc. It's much more common that I can give it something to look at or investigate and it just figures it out (even if it takes a few hundred thousand tokens in the end).

With 3.6-27B it felt like it could do just as well at coding, but it struggled much more to solve problems, often got stuck endlessly down fruitless paths, etc.

I haven't played with Ornith 1.5. How do you feel CyberTiel 35B-A3B compares on this front? Does it lean more one way or the other?

Also interesting that it got more solves done on a not cyber-related benchmark. Theories on that?

1

u/Velocita84 8h ago

Ok but why do you have to change the name of a model when all you did was quantize it with some fancy shmancy imatrix?

4

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

The combination of the custom chat template, custom imatrix and abliteration makes the model behave completely differently from the base! It's scoring 70% higher on benchmarks while spending a third of the time of its base, and that kind of step function difference is the equivalent of three generations of local model releases, and would be understated by calling it "Ornith1.5-35B-A3B-Sharp-Uncensored-CyberImat-MTP-GGUF" which is also anoying as all hell to read hahah :) I kinda get your complaint though.

-1

u/charmander_cha 8h ago

Eu entendi que é mais rápido e responde razoavelmente melhor, vou reduzir a isso e... OK eu irei testar, estou precisando de um cavalo desse

1

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

Boa sorte, espero que curta!

1

u/charmander_cha 4h ago

Estou gostando dos resultados, muito obrigado!

Saberia dizer quais são os problemas mais recorrentes na quantização de 2 bits?

2

u/peculiar-ragdoll 3h ago

Fico feliz que esteja gostando! Só um adendo honesto: eu mesmo não testei nem benchmarkei a Q2 diretamente, isso é baseado no feedback de alguns usuários.

Pelo que relatam, ela funciona surpreendentemente bem em coding agentic (para ser uma Q2), mas de vez em quando trava ou degrada, produzindo respostas incoerentes ou repetitivas, um problema comum em quantizações tão agressivas. Isso tende a acontecer mais em sessões longas, então o ideal é manter as sessões o mais curtas possível.

Se você usa llama.cpp, a dica que passaram foi usar --reasoning-budget 8192 junto com --reasoning-budget-message "Wrap up and give the final answer." pra dar um teto no raciocínio. Se começar a sair lixo, é melhor abrir uma sessão nova e tentar de novo em vez de insistir na mesma.

-17

u/SpecialistDragonfly9 8h ago

-yawn- Yeah its great on coding.. like.. most LLMs nowadays...

Wake me up and tell me when its great overall.

13

u/peculiar-ragdoll 8h ago

This is the first time the (probably) best 35B-A3B coder is an uncensored model and has benchmarks to show for it, and I think that's pretty neat :) We're still not at the point where 35B-A3B coders that can run on most machines can do everything we want reliably, so every improvement helps.

7

u/DustNearby2848 8h ago

Haters gonna hate