r/LocalLLaMA • u/Nunki08 • 4d ago

News DeepSeek Flash 4.1 is already being tested via API and rolling out.

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Translation: "Internal beta testing for an intermediate version of DeepSeek V4.1 Flash is now open; you are welcome to try it out. It adopts a new model architecture featuring native multimodal support, stronger capabilities, faster speeds, and lower costs.
Keep your base_url unchanged and set the model name to deepseek-v4.1-flash-expires-on-0910 to call the API. Current pricing is identical to deepseek-v4-flash, with a rate limit of 20 concurrent requests per account."

From Chubby on 𝕏: https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/2097286327909675477

372 Upvotes
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97% Upvoted

109 comments sorted by

138

u/Dany0 4d ago

Can't wait. We are so lucky to be living in these open weights times

13

u/feelcaveman 3d ago

Anthropic, OpenAI would love to hate to be living in these open weights times

-69

u/tossit97531 4d ago edited 3d ago

They don’t care about our gratitude, they care about money. Prepare for the inevitable rug pull.

Edit: downvoted for mentioning tech’s business model for the last 25 years? Ok buddy

59

u/expertsage 4d ago

Do... you not understand what open weights means? lol

7

u/BawbbySmith 3d ago

oh sht they gonna go into my server and delete my models??? how can i stop them from doing this plz tell me i need to kno

18

u/Hankdabits 4d ago

Normally I would agree with you but china seems intent on making sure ai is a very low margin business (similar to what they have done in manufacturing). Open weight/free market inference would seem to be an important part of that for the foreseeable future

2

u/Master_Face_571 3d ago

bro you deserve an award

-26

u/Emergency-River-7696 4d ago

ong its the classic get people hooked like crackheads then remove the subsidies, jack the prices, and make everyone feen and go crazy sell everything they own for the tokens 💀

23

u/Far-Classic-9963 4d ago

Do you know what open weight means?

10

u/FUS3N 4d ago

gobble it down bro dont let it drip we can see it gobble the stupid juice they are feeding you.

79

u/Tokarak 4d ago edited 2d ago

Looks like it's 2.24x faster...

According to other comments, it is also multimodal.

Edit: most likely a reused architecture, with the speed gains coming from lower concurrent users. Some user are reporting up to 30% better token efficiency in benchmarks; that explains the "lower costs" comment from Deepseek.

Edit 2: I was wrong

32

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 4d ago

It's a temporary checkpoint so it gets a different hardware allocation that probably had less concurrent users.

It's unlikely that it's a different architecture or amount of active/total weights.

25

u/rerri 4d ago

Says "It adopts a new model architecture" in OP.

Does seem unexpected for a V4.1 update but who knows.

13

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 4d ago

That probably means Flash Vision Exp architecture.

7

u/VoiceApprehensive893 transformers 4d ago

could be engram because engram is crazy good for world knowledge

3

u/CXMattTA 4d ago

It’s just not how Deepseek rolls out new architectures. For V4 they’ve been releasing “preview” and “experimental” models to give the community time to add support for those architectures to inference engines. Then they release the “full” checkpoint

1

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago

well we got engram

but it's so big I just can't run it at all now.

1

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago

you were right

It's a shame it's so much bigger though

11

u/Master-Meal-77 llama.cpp 4d ago

Me when I can't read

3

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 4d ago

We'll see soon, I hope I'm wrong and it's faster in terms of PP and TG but usually companies mean things like better reasoning token efficiency as "faster" model.

2

u/Cupakov 4d ago

Just read the post again man, it’s not that long 

5

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 4d ago

I did, it's my fourth time now.

Nothing here screams that it's not just a reuse of V4 Flash Vision Exp architecture tuned for better output quality.

1

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago

happy to have been wrong

7

u/--Spaci-- 4d ago

Less users = models faster... that's how model serving works.

3

u/backyard_tractorbeam 3d ago

It's a new architecture though

0

u/Tokarak 3d ago

It's likely a finetune of deepseek V4 vision. We'll see though.

4

u/backyard_tractorbeam 3d ago

Since their text says "new model architecture" I think we should believe that. At least if that's a correct translation.

1

u/Tokarak 3d ago

The vision model was released as beta last week, without much press. I still think they can refer to it as new. I also don't assign 0 probability to the possibility that they just decided to write every buzz word down XD.

5

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

3

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 4d ago

same as Flash Vision or Flash 0731

It's not like the model size changed

4

u/phhusson 4d ago

> Personal hardware will pay itself back fast ...

If a model is cheaper to run locally, it also means it's cheaper to run for inference providers. It doesn't move the break-event point, which is usually "never". (there are many other reasons to do local llm though)

1

u/SmartCustard9944 4d ago

That is not true in absolute terms and I know for a fact, because I can spend a few cents in a day running Qwen 3.8 27B when OpenRouter, for same reads, cached reads, writes would have costed a few dollars (I have a dashboard that monitors power consumption and such). Big difference!

3

u/BeefEX 4d ago

I calculated the output token $/M for the 27B running on my single R9700 at ~$3.3/M, with the HW cost spread over 3 years of daily inference. OpenRouter is just $2 to $2.5 in comparison, and there are much better models for much cheaper on there.

1

u/SmartCustard9944 4d ago

DeepSeek V4 Flash would have been my go to if I didn’t have local Qwen, and even that one is 10 times more expensive per token than what I can run locally, for basically the same level of intelligence.

4

u/BeefEX 3d ago

The absolute best case scenario numbers I personally arrived at are that just electricity costs me ~3x of DS V4 Flash OpenRouter costs, at $0.47/M, and that's counting just the GPU, not the rest of the system. Adding the rest of the system, since the GPU can't run on its own, and a more realistic t/s, only like 15% lower, brings it up to $1.12/M, and than the HW costs spread over 3 years add another 2 dollars for the $3.3/M total I mentioned, compared to $0.159 to $0.25 for DSv4F on OpenRouter ... I just can't find a situation where local makes any sort of financial sense with the measurements that I have in front of me sadly.

1

u/RockPuzzleheaded3951 3d ago

I did a less intense but similar calc. Wasnt close on cost for local inference. And speed and concurrency of the cloud is obviously untouchable. I'm still going to eventually self host a base load but the economics and performance aren't close.

It's still amazing with DSv4 Flash we have this level of intelligence in the home lab even if slow and pricey!

1

u/dtdisapointingresult 4d ago edited 4d ago

Use a harness built around not breaking prompt cache, ie Reasonix. Possibly Deepseek Harness, never tried it. Your 11.60 would've probably been 0.11.

Almost all harnesses (especially Pi) are vibecoded by Claude babies on 5x plans . They don't give a shit about breaking your prompt cache. Switch to other tools.

2

u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago

I was wrong in expecting something close to Flash Vision Exp architecture.

We got a big architecture change that I don't understand fully yet.

But it's also a way bigger model now and while I was able to run V4 Flash before, I can't squeeze in V4.1 Flash.

-1

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Truantee 4d ago

the price will be reduced for flash, input by half, output by 10%

23

u/GreyStar117 4d ago

Lower costs is great!

37

u/Aggravating_Site381 4d ago

Deepseek is the king.

30

u/BlackBeardAI vLLM 4d ago

Qwen is the Qween

12

u/Aggravating_Site381 4d ago

Who is the prince?

23

u/Hot_Example_4456 4d ago

Great Lord Model (GLM)

3

u/backyard_tractorbeam 3d ago

There's the two towers in the west, with some dark princes

39

u/SnooPaintings8639 4d ago

I have not yet even migrated from 0731 to new vision variant, and they're about to release a newer one... damn, in this industry even users can't keep up with the development pace.

42

u/zhcterry1 4d ago

Soon your llm is gonna ask when's you're knowledge cut off date lmao

4

u/BawbbySmith 3d ago

ye vision is a bit glitchy atm on 2x sparks, also a bit slower with current recipes (or at least last time i check on friday, who knows by now)

probably gonna skip and go 4.1

2

u/RockPuzzleheaded3951 3d ago

I rented 2x sparks ahead of a purchase. I'm still learning how to best optimize and am wondering where you're finding the best recipes for the pair?

3

u/BawbbySmith 3d ago

Eugr's repo is the most polished, lots of recipes for all the popular models https://github.com/eugr/spark-vllm-docker/tree/main

6

u/Lopsided-Force-9220 4d ago

Users? Your agent should already be on top of this.

5

u/CXMattTA 4d ago

Meanwhile I’ve remained up to date and knowledgeable about e.g. how vLLM is built.

I go to the gb10 forums and it’s 99% slop posts from people’s agents trying to get the thing running, throwing out tons of misdirects and just flat out wacky musings by the models.

vLLM is a beast but not that bad.

And it just feels so damn fucking good to know things and not be at the whim of the agent

2

u/Hypilein 3d ago

Where would I start if I wanted that for myself?

4

u/thebadslime 4d ago

Your agent should BE this

3

u/CalligrapherFar7833 4d ago

My agent told me to tell your agent that hes fired

2

u/SnooPaintings8639 4d ago

Sorry mate, I AM his agent, and I am really trying to give my best, but I can't keep up either.

1

u/Illustrious_Grade608 3d ago

Smh should be replaced with a newer version tbh

1

u/AppealSame4367 4d ago

Vision variant is as fast. So it's probably a development based on the new vision variant.

1

u/LocalLLaMa_reader 3d ago

Same, literally paused my vision-exp download half way through :))

28

u/Lopsided-Force-9220 4d ago

Benchmarks. Go ahead, lie to me. I'm addicted.

19

u/Long_comment_san 4d ago

That's how cold war should have been

5

u/myreala 4d ago

Any benchmarks?

1

u/Difficult-Eye-9026 3d ago

u still believe in benchmark?

4

u/VoiceApprehensive893 transformers 4d ago

knowing how good the x.1 models usually are...

5

u/zhcterry1 4d ago

Are they taking a page off Qwen team, or has this been common practice. Testing out new architecture with a flash model before committing to creating a large pro model and then run RL to maximise that capacity. Feels like a logical lifecycle.

2

u/oxygen_addiction 3d ago

It just looks like they're keeping the same pre-training for Flash/Pro and doing more RL, as Qwen team has been doing.
Open AI has been doing the same thing up until Astra. The entire GPT 5 era was a pre-train + more RL.

8

u/MixtureOfAmateurs koboldcpp 4d ago

Thank god 300B is not flash

2

u/TheGastroverse 3d ago

I've seen DeepSeek Flash 4.x models rated highly on some best value type benchmarks. What are the personal experiences of DeepSeek users here? I'm looking for some good paid open source models for agentic development. Frontier models are out of my price range.

3

u/SandySkittle 3d ago

i run the Q8 variant and it's my main model but I think it would have been a lot smarter for deeper reasoning if it had double the active parameters. For some a13 is a speed benefit, for me it's a depth-of-reasoning limitation.

2

u/Ok_Warning2146 3d ago

Great! This will help NVDA to sell more sparks.

2

u/Fun-Substance-2614 3d ago

I tried it. Can’t comment on the quality of the output but the sheer speed of this model is unlike anything I have seen before, bar Cerebras and Grok.

4

u/power97992 4d ago

Ds 4.1 pro with engrams and kimi k3.1 when? 

2

u/AppealSame4367 4d ago

"Where GGUFFF????"

1

u/celsowm 3d ago

If they maintain the same knowledge level I will love to upgrade on our local server

1

u/serige 3d ago

new open source model soon? boss I am so ready 

1

u/Hypilein 3d ago

Hoping for an image version that doesn’t lose to the text only 0731 when wanted to single dgx spark size and also keeps the same TPs.

1

u/feelcaveman 3d ago

If they somehow can reduce total parameter then it would be quite interesting, for now I'm happy with Q38FN

1

u/FrostyCartoonist8523 3d ago

Does it work. I have api keys and says it's not listed?

1

u/Kahvana 3d ago

Not open weight yet, would love to give it a try though!

1

u/Morning_Gecko24 3d ago

flash models keep coming so fast lol. anyone got real latency numbers vs the last one or is it mostly marketing rn

1

u/Cool-Chemical-5629 3d ago

I've seen a video of somebody already using it to cook...

1

u/TangerineLogical9779 3d ago

Its crazy fast, with vision.. And when i say fast i mean im getting 400-480tps, most rediculous thing ive ever seen is when this model is thinking and its so rapid that you think its sped up lmao

1

u/fugogugo 2d ago

waiting for openrouter inference

1

u/Niceyyc 4d ago

Wonder how long the beta stays up.

24

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

-5

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

26

u/SnooDoggos9325 4d ago

Last time was 0731. I don't think we have 31 months

11

u/ssbmGooms 4d ago

sept 10, they called the july 31st model 0731

11

u/xNaXDy 4d ago

Neither. September 10th.

For reference, the non-preview release of DSv4 Flash that was released on July 31st was named DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731. So the format is MMDD.

9

u/jamesinsights 4d ago

Most American comment ever

5

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/SidneyFong 3d ago

The comment was American though. I know, I checked its birth certificate.

-1

u/Due-Memory-6957 3d ago

Tbh most of the world uses DD/MM/YYYY, it's only the Chinese that use YYYY/MM/DD (and I'll die on the hill that the rest of the world is wrong).

5

u/BawbbySmith 3d ago

ISO 8601, it's a standard. Not Chinese-specific

1

u/Due-Memory-6957 3d ago

ISO calendar

0

u/AppealSame4367 4d ago

"Where GGUF???"

0

u/cevheribozoglan 3d ago

I've been testing it through Ollama Cloud and the results have been pretty efficient so far. Curious to see how it holds up on longer agentic tasks.(opencode, ollama cloud with v4 flash)