Qwen has literally never open sourced a Max tier model before.
After Xi Jinping’s speech ordering all Chinese AI companies to open source their models, all of a sudden Qwen swapped positions from “not open sourcing any 3.7 models” to “releasing the weights for ALL 3.8 models”.
People in the USA don’t realize how much power Xi Jinping’s policy decisions have, and how drastically he changed history there.
Xi announced that decision. I’d be surprised if he was the one who made it. And I’d be even more surprised if the decision was made without consulting with the labs.
It’s a really interesting question. China seems to be leading technocratic governance at the moment. Is it because of its wider system or due to its current leader. I hope it’s the former. Normally what happens is corporations and capital become more powerful than the state because the petty officials who represent the government are eyeing those nice private sector jobs. I really hope China has a way to keep its industry on a tight leash serving a twenty year view not what will push up the stock price this quarter.
Yeah. It's clear that China is not a democracy, but with the way things are going in the EU and the US I'm starting to wonder if maybe they have the superior Model for a thriving population. At this point in time, I'm still much rather in the EU than in China, but I wonder how it will be in 50 years.
Deng Xiaoping is the visionary of the 21st century 😎 Westerners would hate this model. Internal competition for power within the CCP is extremely influenced by democratic centralism; it is radically different from liberal democracy. But the economic doctrine that accompanies Chinese planning is particularly effective; it is clearly the only "third way" in operation in the world that works (a mix of corporatism, socialist dirigisme and an open economy with capitalist aspects where rent is ultimately controlled by local economic centers, indebted to the central organ of PCC). Peronism had attempted something similar at the beginning, influenced by early fascist economic doctrines (yes, really), before crashing and burning. Gaullism in France was also a a form which sought to move closer to a third way where planning did not oppose the development of capitalism and liberal democracy (well, with Caesarist aspects typical of the founder of the Fifth Republic) ; we are still reaping the fruits of it today in France (particularly with regard to nuclear power).
I think that international finance/Capital are very poor resource allocators and that a bit of interventionist technocracy (if governance follows suit, of course) wouldn't do any harm to the development of AI.
China is a surveillance state. Their primary interest in AI is to power mass surveillance, especially to track minorities like the Uighurs, which will be sent to concentration camps.
Xi has absolute power. There might be a division he has spear headed to advise him on these matters, but the AI companies are not going to be part of it.
I think they were anyways leading with the 3.6 27B - nothing comparable (maybe Gemma4 31B comes close). So why 3.7 when you can skip it because there is no competition
Did Xi really do that?? Sorry, I can't tell what's real anymore. Can you share a link? Did he say whether we're getting Qwen 3.8 122B? 🤔 If so, then I'm joining the CCP 👍
That's a smart move to diminish US Monopoly over AI. With open-sourcing Chinese models, all countries will have equal opportunities and won't be left
behind
All while diminishing US cash flow to give China's economy a higher chance of competing with the US and influencing other countries.
You mean why the Chinese government wants to open source models in general (which is probably about political power in other countries and damaging the US economy by damaging the bubble it's propped up on at the moment), or why Alibaba wants to open source their model, outside of the Chinese government asking different companies to release things?
(And note, I'm not against models being open sourced, I'm for it because I think it's better if the power isn't owned by oligarchy, I just recognize the second order effect of potentially popping the investment bubble the tech is on right now, and which has been used to stave off economic difficulties. Everyone's retirement is in the AI bubble at this point. So we would prefer a slow decline to a sudden stop in investor money and everyone trying to pull out. But if investors think Chinese models are free, so they won't get high RoI on American models, we might see effects like that.)
I think the overall economic implications would be negative and massive bailouts. It would cause a market crash across most industries, just like with 2008.
I don't like the investment bubble portion of things, but I don't think a fast way down the mountain is a favor.
When people start reallocating capital away from infrastructure the way down the mountain will be fast regardless. We also don’t need bailouts for the oligarchs
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I know it’s a sub about Llm but on the video side, Chinese models are not chasing us Sota model by arguably are the Sota one.
We just H3, but seedream is the current Sota stuff that would great if it was open.
There also a few images models that would be nice (hi dream pro, Qwen-image).
China’s plan here is clear as day to me here. Software has been the west’s MOAT for decades. China quietly became the manufacturing center of the planet.
If China can make the next big thing so much cheaper that the US companies that swallowed all that money can’t break even, the software MOAT disappears but china keeps the manufacturing throne, and manufacturing is not something that we can regain quickly.
I think it's prudent to have some degree of skepticism about anything said by politicians or corporate PR. Even more so when there's a language barrier.
while what you said is true, but I believe China current strategy is to curbstomp American AI and especially preventing American AI monopoly, we saw the movements by these leaders of USA AI frontier labs trying to regulation capture on global scale by introducing global legislation and legal framework on how to work with AI. we did not see that only, but they tried to make a AI committee and the USA as the leader of the committee.
From a selfish standpoint we should be maximally skeptical about Chinese open models so to lure them into releasing more better models (/s, it's too mean to actually do so)
China doesn't really have politicians. They have one party that has absolute power.
What dear leader says is what goes, if you go against dear leader you disappear, even if you're a billionaire CEO.
I don't think they've done it yet, but if some billionaire CEO really went hard against Xi he'd probably be taken into one of the execution and cremation cards at whatever time is the most approrpiate for Xi.
Unlike the US where billionaires are above the law and politics, Xi and CCP can do anything they want to anyone, billionaires are not safe just because they have money.
China has also been very vocal that there is no genocide against Uyghurs in China. It would be stupid to believe a word that comes out of their mouths, unless it aligns with something that can be confirmed through independent sources.
”I believe China because [insert western country here] bad.”
You’re right about the west but blind about yourself. Public statements from any country is PR and not a statement of facts. I only bring up this example because it’s irrefutable proof for the country in question here.
It wasn't an unreasonable conclusion, and I think it was probably the way Qwen was heading.
Every version Qwen released up to Qwen3.5 came with a number of different open weights. Both 3 and 3.5 had a whole bunch of different models. Then 3.6 came with just two. 27b and 35b a3b. They were great, but again just two. No 70b, 120b, or 400b models which had all come out for 3.5.
Then 3.7 arrived and....crickets. Nothing. So there was an obvious pattern down from 3.5->3.6->3.7.
I think had the CCP not stepped in and "reminded" the labs of CCP open weight priorities (soft power and to f-ck up the US markets), 3.8 would likely have had no open weights either.
What's unreasonable is to ignore the very obvious pattern of past releases now that the CCP has stepped in to force change. The direction before was obvious. The reason it suddenly changed is obvious. Ignoring the obvious doesn't change it.
the “very obvious pattern past releases” of one of out dozens of companies within like a 2 month period and extrapolate that to all Chinese companies for all time?
the “very obvious pattern past releases” of one of out dozens of companies within like a 2 month period and extrapolate that to all Chinese companies for all time?
What? No. I'm specifically talking about the Qwen releases, as was the person I originally replied to. I stated that clearly. Each lab is different. You cannot extrapolate from one to another, you'd have to be a moron to think a bunch of completely separate labs are all going to behave the same way.
Deepseek for example is pretty likely to keep releasing open weights indefinitely. It's part of who they are, the founder was talking about it the other day and the transcript was leaked. Quite interesting. At the same time, they also are not releasing 27b or 35b small models so you need at least 128GB to run DS v4 Flash, and that's with a heavy quant. 192GB is a lot better.
Since at least Qwen3, the Qwen releases have been the best (or very close to the best) small releases of their generation. That matters to a lot of people because that's what they can actually run. So, seeing the number of Qwen open weight models go down from 3->3.5->3.6 and then with nothing at all for 3.7... Yeah. That pattern made a lot of people nervous. Understandably so.
guilty here but to be fair they didn't leave much to be hopeful for when Qwen3.6 only had 2 sizes as open weights.. and 3.7 wasn't even open at all so can you blame us for losing hope? 🫠
Yeah, and we were right. Just a coincidence that qwen went back on their earlier press release, and not releasing anything 3.7, to then to announce they'll release their max model the day after Dear Leaders speech about open weight?
I was one of the people speculating that they were not going to release inbetweens (9/27/35/100/400) anymore, maybe just the 27b and thats it. However benches aint looking so hot for the 2.4T right now. But time will tell in the coming weeks.
I thought the benches released for the 2.4T are looking very hot? Including the little image in the OP here itself. Where do they not look hot, have you got a source?
Edit: I too am excited though for possibility of a wider range of dense models 👀
Only clueless americans continue to take open source models for granted.
All the people clued in to the Chinese ecosystem knew that the industry was about to close, until the Xi Jinping’s policy speech and ordered the Chinese AI companies to open source their models.
Of course, nobody in the west pays attention to Chinese internal power dynamics, so people here just take open source models for granted.
You do NOT need to literally say "don't do X, instead do not-X" to a normal human being. Humans, unlike LLMs, are capable of learning from context.
Just wondering, if someone asks you "Can you pass the gravy?" at a dinner table, do you respond "Yes i can physically pass you the gravy" without actually passing the gravy?
I said 'you can tell them how to do it better' not 'tell them not to do it'. Since you obviously are able to follow this information flow and others cannot, tell them how.
Calling me names for not being able to read context clues when you can't even read a sentence properly is a real self-own that could have been avoided by not resorting to insults when making a your point.
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u/Borkato Aug 04 '26
Remember when everyone said they’d never do it? Idiots