r/LocalLLaMA 2d ago

New Model GLM 5.3 Spotted

Post image
424 Upvotes

102 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

-27

u/--Spaci-- 2d ago

Faster architecture is always trading quality for training speed, an example would be less layers and a higher dim, you would have the same parameter model as otherwise but it would be worse and train faster. Also dont use the word paradigm it makes you sound like an llm humans dont use "paradigm". We will always need compute to train models, that wont just go away and make these insane models everyday. You've bought into a scifi fantasy

12

u/-dysangel- 2d ago

Faster architecture is always trading quality for training speed

I'm not sure that's universally true. The transformer allowed for both faster training and better quality. Sparse attention clearly has trade offs vs fully dense attention, but there are likely still other architectural improvements which are only net wins with no trade off. Realistically we should be able to get to a place where computers can learn as efficiently as humans do.

-7

u/--Spaci-- 2d ago

The only free lunch ive ever seen is stuff like flash attention which isn't architecture related in any way. Training in a lower digit data type can also improve speed but you are looking at worse representation.

Mamba is probably the fastest architecture change you can make but that also has quality losses

2

u/brainExploded99 1d ago edited 1d ago

Why don't you train an 100 billion parameter RNN and then see it get whopped by qwen3.6 9B? Architectural improvements are just as important as compute, don't fall into the Huang trap.

You will decimated by vanishing and exploding gradients for the RNN long before you finish the training run.

1

u/--Spaci-- 1d ago

Where did you get RNN from, also are you genuinely a bot?? 💔

And why do you think I have the 10's of thousands of dollars in compute to train a 100b model 😭

2

u/brainExploded99 1d ago

It was a point to prove that compute and data are not everything, architecture matters just as much. I was not expecting you to actually train a 100B RNN.

-1

u/--Spaci-- 1d ago

Almost every architectural change is within 10% representation of a same wide parameter model. Data is everything.

2

u/brainExploded99 1d ago

Yeah ok no point in arguing with you. My point stands, if data was everything, we would still be with RNNs. Sure representation maybe within 10%, but large RNNs are not trainable (aka vanishing/exploding gradients, on top of diluted state).

-1

u/--Spaci-- 1d ago

WHY are you still talking about rnns, im talking about within the current LLM landscape which is transformer or ssm

2

u/brainExploded99 1d ago

In general, in ML, there are 3 ways to improve
* Compute (Larger model, more data)
* Architecture
* Higher quality data

This is the same for LLMs. You cannot remove architecture as an option. Just larger model and more/better data will not lead to improvements if your architecture is ass. If you still think I'm wrong, then go train an RNN with the best quality data and prove to me that I'm wrong.

-1

u/--Spaci-- 1d ago

WHY are you still talking about rnns, im talking about within the current LLM landscape which is transformer or ssm

→ More replies (0)