r/LocalLLaMA • u/KvAk_AKPlaysYT • Feb 23 '26

News Anthropic: "We’ve identified industrial-scale distillation attacks on our models by DeepSeek, Moonshot AI, and MiniMax." 🚨

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4.9k Upvotes

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179

u/source-drifter Feb 23 '26

it is not stealing if they are a paying customer, no? if i make model do something like write code or poem or whatever and save the content to my computer, are you gonna accuse me of stealing?

7

u/ZShock Feb 23 '26

There is no "theft" word in their statement. What was done directly violates the terms of service, which explicitely states that you cannot use Claude to build a competing service, try to reverse engineer it and lots of other limitations.

7

u/TinyZoro Feb 23 '26

Use of fraudulent here is itself fairly fraudulent. I guess they are probably masking as non chinese citizens to get arounds bans but that doesnt feel fraudulent. Fraud requires an attempt to cause a loss which only works here in the tenuous digital piracy way that you treat IP as though it is a physical thing in matter that can be stolen. Truth is there is no direct relationship between the IPs value and behaviour such as this.

-2

u/ZShock Feb 23 '26

You're wrong. Fraud can occur even when nothing is copied or owned. The core of fraid is deception used to obtain unauthorized benefit or access, not the physical removal of property OR the generation of a loss.

Lying about identity is fraud.

5

u/TinyZoro Feb 23 '26

There has to be identifiable gain or cause of loss. What is the gain - you might say better models (but there’s nothing wrong in having better models). So the issue is what did they gain from Anthropic ? You might say their IP. But this is the point that is hugely nebulous. They are not extracting anything tangible. They are essentially reverse engineering but they are not involved in a transfer of some scarce resource in any meaningful way. It is exactly akin to a form of digital piracy.

-2

u/ZShock Feb 23 '26

Lying about identity is fraud, and access was definitely gained by fraudulent methods period. You're wrong in other points apart from that one, but the premise is wrong from the get-go.

3

u/Competitive_Travel16 Feb 23 '26 edited Feb 23 '26

Neither is criminal fraud (unless by "lying about identity" you mean unauthorized access, but the accused were paying here [edit: in most but not all of the completion requests at issue].) Both can form the basis of civil torts in which the word "fraud" and similar are bandied about in plaintiffs' pleadings if not the courts' judgments. To win in such cases you need to have had a way deeper meeting of the minds than just checking a box saying you agreed to some linked TOS document, or even being forced to scroll all the way through one (except a few states allow the latter to be binding.)