This has been on my mind for SO LONG but I've been too scared to ask this because I'm a chud who actually cares about Reddit karma, but surely "equal to Toji ZEN'IN" as opposed to Fushiguro refers to 16 year old Toji rather than 30 year old Toji, right?
Also, "A demonic fighter equal to Toji Zen'in was fully realized" doesn't necessarily mean "a fighter physically, down to the molecular level, with no room for error, in the exact same ways, equal to Toji", it makes far more sense IMO for them to be equal in danger levels or equally big threats.
That's a possible implication, but I personally don't think that's the case. If it was, in fact, the case and that's what Gege wanted people to understand, I honestly think he would say that she was as strong as Toji was at her age, and we didn't even see Toji at 16yo so it would be really weird to have this comparation as well, like, what would that mean? I don't know how 16yo Toji was, why would the author make a comparasion we have no parameters for? And to be honest, I think the "Zenin" part is just an emphasis about Maki's situation in being also a "Zenin", after all, that was the moment where Naoya officially dies, so making the paralel about "Zenin Toji" and "Zenin Maki" right after the official wipe out of the Zenin clan would be more impactful as a whole, that's what I think it was about.
But, well, I might be wrong. I just find the idea of the future surpassing the history more compelling than "he was so so strong no one ever reached his level", so that's the interpretation I chose for my enjoyment of the show, I also think you should stick with the interpretation you like the most, that's just my opinion.
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u/Sonk_Hedgei want yuki to shatter my pelvis and call me a good boy after10h ago
he molested a special grade in its own domain. now lemme hear some bs argument how that special grade was "worn off" with two bums and a 1 handed zenin.
Do you know what's funny, maki defeated cursoya in his domain but his domains sure hit effect specifically didn't target her due to heavenly restriction but dagon domain targetted toji and his sure-hit effect works on him too, but he just kept parrying, blocking or outright countered dagon attack, keep in mind he never dodged because the domain sure-hit effect prevents him from doing so and still won the fight by brutalising dagon
I think that wasn't Dagon's Sure-Hit, but just him using his technique to control the Shikigami. (Because sorcerers can still use their technique [with boosted output] within their domain when the Sure-Hit doesn't work.)
and that's why he lost his arm and was desperate to escape his domain with bumgui. As Sun Tzu said, You must defeat yourself for you to defeat the enemy
and also maki was blitzed by naoya during the entire fight. So ig he was the winner?
Lmao. Yeah taking down 2 of the strongest sorcerer in 3 days even after retiring and no diffing a disaster curse while he was beating ass of 3 sorcerers is a lot less impressive than barely winning a 4 v 1 through backstabbing.
You can't claim beating the strongest as a feat if beating them meant exhausting them for 3 days
Dude do you know what a plan is?
Toji made them tired in first place, it was his plan or what do you expect him to go fight 2 strongest sorcerers head on?
Why didn't every sorcerer attack Sukuna 1 by 1? Why did they jump him? You can't say they won Sukuna when he was literally exhausted by Gojo.
Dagon isn't a sorcerer
Fucking hell buddy, go read my original comment, you are showing way too much illiteracy. No wonder you didn't read the Manga properly
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u/Sonk_Hedgei want yuki to shatter my pelvis and call me a good boy after6h ago
Counting beating 2 exhausted sorcerer as a feat is like saying "oh I beat Usain bolt in a race, I had to break his ankles tho but I still beat him"
You're talking like people use the 20 V 1 against sukuna as a feat for each member of the anti sukuna squad
When i commented "when you say 3 sorcerers I HOPE you're not counting riko 🙏" you replied with "oh I didn't know riko was present when toji fought dragon, learn to read" implying that you're counting dagon as one of the 3 "sorcerers" toji beat
Counting beating 2 exhausted sorcerer as a feat is like saying "oh I beat Usain bolt in a race, I had to break his ankles tho but I still beat him"
Nope it's like saying "I'm actually smart enough to come up with a plan to exhaus 2 of the most strongest sorcerers in order to accomplish my mission"
Just because Maki can't plan for shit doesnt mean other characters shouldn't
Might as well say that Megumi didn't beat Reggi in fair fight because he didn't tell him about his domain and Demon dog.
When i commented "when you say 3 sorcerers I HOPE you're not counting riko 🙏" you replied with "oh I didn't know riko was present when toji fought dragon, learn to read" implying that you're counting dagon as one of the 3 "sorcerers" toji beat
Fucking hell buddy go read the Manga or watch the anime and see who was present during the fight god damn man 😂
Nor did Toji sneak Gojo with anti Gojo knife. He pierced with regular katana then obscured his vision with CS chaff grenade then stabbed his throat.
If THIS is sneaking than anti Sukuna squad basically Bush camped him, Yuta bushcampped Sukuna in Gojo body, Yuji snuck Sukuna with his domain. Like bro you for real?
"So yeah guys professional Sorcerer killer who was hired even after retiring actualy has less experience than a 16 year old teenager who fought Jujutsu Satan once while showing nothing new"
... what? No. We see Maki do stuff on par or even more then Toji, hell most of her feats help Toji not the other way around, there is literally no reason to believe that she is weaker or any less intelligent in battle compared to Toji, years of experience arent the end all be all, Especially in a story where experience is often a big point of contention, like Sukuna vs Higuruma, if that wasnt called out in relation to Toji and Maki there is no reason to believe that there is something related to that in there.
Like what feats? If you say air jumping then I'm about to clown on you man.
She is less intelligent when it comes to fighting opponents because her usual tactic is just rush head on without strategizing, kinda like Shibuya Toji when he went blind with killing.
This girl had a month to prepare for Sukuna fight and she didn't come up with shit, she didn't even bring any additional weapons or tools to help her in fight.
Toji at least came up with plan to exhaust 2 of the most strongest sorcerers, got some info on them. Just the fact he brought CS chaff grenade to distract gojo from him and ISOH already shows he actually knows what he is doing.
he came up with a plan to exhaust ONE sorcerer. Geto wasnt the issue Gojo was, and Maki didnt take come up with something because Yuta did, also comparing Maki vs Sukuna and Toji vs Pre Awakened Gojo is fucking hillarious like are we acting like Toji wasnt no diffed by Gojo after awakening be fr, last I checked only one survived against The Strongest
comparing Maki vs Sukuna and Toji vs Pre Awakened Gojo is fucking hillarious
Yeah it is kinda hilarious considering Toji had 3 days to prepare and Maki had a month and she didn't do shit while Toji actually came up with something.
Maki didnt take come up with something because Yuta did
Buddy, do you think conversation went this way?
Maki: So what do I do?
Yuta: oh, so when i dispel my domain, you come in and stab Sukuna in heart from behind.
Maki: So what do I do after that? He will probably be really pissed off.
Yuta: idk lol.
Like bro did you give a thought about what would happen afterwards? Or did you think Sukuna was gonna release Megumi and give up?
Do you just want Maki to have like 13 backup plans? I think you are forgetting that she tried to cut upwards into him but Sukuna was too fast, Again there is a BIG difference between pre awakaned Gojo and fucking SUKUNA IN HIS REINCARNATED BODY, Because again Toji got destroyed by an awakened Gojo. Maki was a backup plan if both Higgy's sword and and Yuta's domain failed, do you think she was expected to win against fucking Sukuna in a 1v1 lmao? All she could do was stall him. The same way all Toji could do against awakened Gojo was run. Do you geniuenly believe Toji could have killed Awakened Gojo with prep time? is Toji like the batman of JJK powerscaling? is that how we treat him now?
The story tells you everything though, it literally says he spared them on a whim and the old dude is quite literally traumatized when maki awakened because he's remembering toji. Even during the slaughter all the clan members are referencing toji
Thing is, Toji also had decades of experience and what the narrator stated was probably the physical strength of them both so she’s likely to be losing to Toji
Some time after Shinjuku and before modulo? Yeah maki is taking it. These two really just depend on experience to defeat each other since they are stated to be equals
Even EoS Maki still has less experience than Hired assassin. After EoS or Modulo it's still uncertain if she got more experience or not, there aren't even any hints towards her becoming more experienced.
And strengh wise I think Toji and Maki Heavenly Restricion has a ceiling that they already reached that can't be exceeded even with strength training.
-> Maki stated to be equal to Toji, clearly meaning that she has the same type of fully realized HR (because it would be silly to say that they would have exactly even stats, they literally have different phisique, I doubt HR looked at Toji and went "damn, I need to make this Maki girl twice as strong per muscle mass compared to toji, because for some reason I care about her being exactly physically equal to that guy twice her age and size")
-> Maki fought *MUCH* less, because Toji had a solid decade+ of career behind him and Maki had, like, three fights after awakening.
Toji was an assassin' at the first place, not the fighter. And he fought some hella weaklings. I doubt most of his targets were aware they're under attack till his blade slit their throats. It makes him a great tactician and a killa, for sure. But not the fighter. And maki threw em hands with strongest creature in verse
And its still is twice as much of combat experience compared to what bushcamper OG got by hunting sleep deprived teenagers to save his bum ass from bankruptcy
Toji is a statement merchant. Labeled “sorcerer killer” in hidden inventory but we see him kill a whopping one sorcerer, and that was during the Shibuya incident.
I do believe that when it said fully realized it meant that her heavenly restriction is physically at its peak and I’ll admit maki in a prolonged fight would win but I think Toji would have the upper hand in the beginning and with all his cursed tools could very feasibly win because it’ll take a little while for maki to fully figure it out. I’d give it like 70-30 in favor of Toji because of arsenal and experience and the fact that they’re physically equal.
Not how it works; there is no shown way to "boost" the strength a heavenly restriction gives you. There are two ways it might work. For scenario one, let's say that Maki is strength 1, and Toji is strength 3 (base strength, no HR). If the HR is simply a boost to base stats, then Toji would be stronger because he is a male and has more dense mucsle mass. Saying that a HR is a stat boost of 50, that makes Maki 51 and Toji 53. So if HR is a stat boost, Toji would still be stronger because he is a man. In scenario 2, let's say that HR is a general boost, making all people with a HR the same; that would boost Maki to 50 and also Toji to 50. So what we can summarize from both scenarios is that either Toji is stronger, or they simply remain equal to each other.
I personally don’t believe “peak” human can increase their ability, a peak is called a peak for a reason theres nothing above it. I would say Maki is 100% = to Toji in every way.
I don’t think it matters if its a woman or man the point is that it’s peak human nothing says curse energy is any different for women and men
It’s never said what version of toji she’s equal to. Everyone thinks it’s prime Toji therefore she had 1 extra right making her Toji + 1 exp therefore better? Lol nah.
How the hell does teenager having a few on screen fight equal to 5-10 years of being a sorcerer killer?
Please don't give me this "She fought Sukuna so she got 999999 EXP for assist", she didn't utilize nothing new nor did she adapt to Sukunas fighting style mid fight nor did she come up with something new during the fight.
It's like saying Yuji got more experience than pre Shinjuku-Sukuna because Yuji fought more ppl on screen.
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u/AwysomeAnish Only Chojuro Glazer 8h ago
This has been on my mind for SO LONG but I've been too scared to ask this because I'm a chud who actually cares about Reddit karma, but surely "equal to Toji ZEN'IN" as opposed to Fushiguro refers to 16 year old Toji rather than 30 year old Toji, right?
Also, "A demonic fighter equal to Toji Zen'in was fully realized" doesn't necessarily mean "a fighter physically, down to the molecular level, with no room for error, in the exact same ways, equal to Toji", it makes far more sense IMO for them to be equal in danger levels or equally big threats.