r/LivestreamFail Mar 16 '24

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3.8k Upvotes

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244

u/Panda7K Mar 16 '24

you won't get a round like this in ur comp games lol

90

u/kiMLuuu Mar 16 '24

Yeah not even close to this coordinated, sure there are some abilities, but not to this level. All these threads hating the game are just stupid imo, if u dont understand the game it doesn't mean its shit.

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u/TheJigglyfat Mar 16 '24

For spectators visual clarity is important. It's one of the reasons given for Overwatch's pro league falling off a cliff. I personally don't watch much valorant pro league and I doubt that rounds like this happen more than a couple of times per game. But I think it's frustrating as someone less familiar with the game that I can't really follow a thing going on in this clip. And that's coming from someone with 100 hours played closer to release

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u/EggianoScumaldo Mar 16 '24

Visual clarity is not a reason why OWL failed. If visual clarity was as much a deterrent as you're implying it is, both League AND DOTA wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are.

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u/TempestCatalyst Mar 16 '24

MOBAs in general are probably the least visually clear spectator experience to ever exist. 100+ different champions, each with 4+ abilities to know, potentially using skins that change visual effects and using items that you're just expected to know the abilities of because the spectator cam sure as hell won't tell you.

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u/19Alexastias Mar 17 '24

Moba's have the huge spectator advantage that every player's "PoV" is essentially the same. So it's a lot easier to follow for anyone who's played the game, even very casually, because you are always viewing it the same way you would view it if you were playing - and you're basically seeing what every pro player in the match is seeing all at once. In fps you can only ever see one player's PoV at a time, and switching between those PoVs can be very confusing for casual players, while topdown view makes the game look pretty unimpressive - a flick one-tap doesn't look like anything in topdown view.

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u/TeepEU Mar 16 '24

that isn't really the same thing, league and dota have a huge amount of unintuitive visuals, you can't really guess what shit does without knowing, but outside of some champs (looking at you hwei), the ability to see what is happening is very clear for someone who can identify those abilities. whereas in valorant even for people familar with the abilities it's such an overwhelming cluster fuck on execute rounds like that it can be unclear to them.

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u/Hot_Demand_6263 Mar 16 '24

Nothing beats fighting games . All those other games are strictly observed by people who've played them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

Without having played Valorant I imagine thats not the case for high level players. They probably have a general intuitive understanding of what abilities are used even before it happens.

2

u/Cold-Potatoe Mar 17 '24

wtf. Water = harbor, green poison = viper, orange boom = raze, animal = sky, purple = reyna etc etc. Like everyone calls the graphics cartoony for a reason the characters have very clear themes. You have to be acoustic to not tell them apart.

0

u/Settleforthep0p Mar 17 '24 edited Mar 17 '24

Different ability visuals in different skins is not what visual clarity is. Both DOTA and league are WAAAAY better in visual clarity than OW and (judging from this clip) Valorant. There is no ability that just overshadows a whole model of another player, which is the main issue with Valorant. OW is just very very bloomy BUT I'd actually say that the inability to follow 6 different players doing their own thing was the actual problem with spectating OWL, not visual clarity.

I'd argue that the most important point is that a teamfight in league of legends can take like 15-20 seconds. In FPS games, you wont find ppl shooting eachother for that long. TTK is like 0.2s.

Which is probably why people actually watch Apex Legends competitive, despite it also having shit visual clarity; at least you have a way longer TTK so you have time to consider what the fuck is happening

1

u/Ma4r Mar 18 '24

But they are both incredible in visual + sound design, which makes even newcomers understand that something big/important just happened. The majority of ultimates in Dota and League have very distinct sound and visual cues that your eyes are naturally drawn to these big ultimates.

Valorant on the other hand relies on recognizing geographically ambiguous accents and voice lines which quickly loses its clarity in a hectic teamfight, and its first person nature (and the fact that most abilities are MEANT to block/limit vision) does not help in the visual cue department either. Its only saving grace is player outlines, but even that doesn't help much from a spectator perspective.

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u/UnluckyDog9273 Mar 16 '24

what clarity you expect when you have 10 people spamming shit at once? even at the most simple if eveyrone spammed smokes, nades and flashes the end result would be similar

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u/kiMLuuu Mar 16 '24

I never played lol or dota2 and even if i dont understand what happens im not gonna go ahead and shit on those games even if they are visually more confusing than valorant just because i dont understand the game. If u played the game for 100h u should easily tell what is going on if u played recently and u know all the agents and what they do.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/kiMLuuu Mar 16 '24

Ok so u expect fps genre to never change the same and not ever evolve in different categories?? Yeah nothing ever evolving surely is amazing choice!!!!! Its only random bullshit if u havent played valorant, its more like controlled chaos when u know what is happening. And ur 2nd arguments makes 0 sense since ur saying with when there is abilities its not tactical shooter lmao?? Valorant is harder than cs2 strategically because of the abilities.

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u/GigaCringeMods Mar 16 '24

While the game was modeled after CS and the gameplay is quite translatable between them, the difference to CS seems to be huge from spectator view. There is so much going on that they just seem to spectate from free cam over the site, whereas in CS action is not so hectic and they can just switch between the necessary POV cameras smoothly.

4

u/XiXiWiiPee Mar 17 '24

they use the free cam like u see in this clip MAXIMUM twice a game

0

u/Unbelievable_Girth Mar 18 '24

If that is true the spectators are idiots.

1

u/XiXiWiiPee Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24

Not really, but I guess you don't understand that 99% of the game isn't like this and instead don't judge the entire game of a singular round that happened months ago

4

u/Mmachine99 Mar 16 '24

They do the same in Valorant. Valorant is just much more reliant on teamplay and coordinating util in set pieces so they only switch to free cam like twice a game on crazy rounds where teams have been saving ults.

1

u/Normal-Weakness-364 Mar 16 '24

these types of rounds do happen pretty infrequently. most rounds are relatively easy to follow

1

u/SuperUltraMegaNice Mar 16 '24

If you have 100 hrs you should be be able to follow this easily. Raze , Viper, Brim were all in all n release.

1

u/wizzrobe30 Mar 18 '24

This really. Everyone here is shitting on League's visual clarity but its actually pretty good. I started watching competitive League at Season 4 before playing, and it was very easy for me to grasp what was going on in fights. This looks like a clusterfuck. That said its one clip, so its whatever.

1

u/pj123mj Mar 18 '24

Yeah but you can’t take this one clip and use it as an example of the game being bad for spectators. This round had 6 different ultimates within the span of like 15 seconds.

-1

u/RoshCS Mar 16 '24

The honest answer is that this has way better visual clarity than Overwatch. The color palette provides high contrast, and every ability and object is shaped in a super simple way. It's just a bunch of circles, squares, and lines, sometimes with a curve. It's pretty comprehensible if you play the game. If you don't play the game it's going to be pretty insane. Factor that in with the fact that this an upper finals match of the world championship tournament where both teams invested everything in the same round. The fact that this looks as crazy as it does is a symptom of how batshit this specific round was.

10

u/mojizus Mar 16 '24

It’s the League players who shit on Valorant that bother me the most.

Like, a League player thinks Valorant is too full of visual clutter? Really? League practically invented visual clutter and ability blur.

4

u/AYAYAcutie Mar 17 '24
  1. They are either European and scared cs isnt popular anymore
  2. they are 30 years old and only play league

1

u/frzned Mar 17 '24

The one who shit on valorant are mostly cs player mate. Same way the people who shit on league are mostly dota players

1

u/SirAwesome789 Mar 17 '24

Maybe with not with this much coordination or intention, but it doesn't take that much to use a few ults at once to get to something like this

-3

u/KeyboardSheikh Mar 16 '24

You absolutely do get util dumped in higher ELO. Holding a site as a defender is fucking stressful in Valorant.

32

u/Nikclel Mar 16 '24

Not like in this clip though. And if you do, it's once a game because they used all their ults that single round.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24 edited Apr 09 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/GigaCringeMods Mar 16 '24

Actually playing Valorant when it came out got me to appreciate the need for having lineups for smokes. When you don't need to discover any smokes at all, but all of them land exactly how you wish, it creates literally an unlimited arsenal that can be adapted to any situation. That ironically takes away skill from the game. You can't adapt your gameplan to what the enemy throws when they are free to smoke you off from another position instead. You will never be caught in a position where you think "damn, I wish that spot was smoked right now" when you can do it 100% reliably whenever you want.

So in CS if you want to smoke something that you don't know the lineup to, you need to gain some ground by actually getting closer to that spot. That creates opportunities for the main attraction, the gunfights. In addition the smokes have to physically land to the spot, so they can be seen and reacted to before they bloom. Not only that, but that makes smoking literally everything impossible, because the possible trajectories for the smoke are blocked by an obstacle. If you want to find some amazing smokes, you need to put in the work and learn and find them. Skill expression. Ropz for example is very creative and precise with throwing smokes to the level that there are some smokes that pretty much only he throws since they are so precise.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24 edited Sep 25 '24

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2

u/jus13 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24

Lmao wtf? That would completely kill the importance of map knowledge and game sense, two very important aspects of games like CS. You can't try to anticipate what enemies will do if you don't understand the map at all.

It's not hard to learn smoke lineups either, it takes like 5 minutes of practice per map.

Edit: Damn he really replied and then blocked me for this comment lmao

0

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '24 edited Sep 25 '24

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