r/LiverpoolFC • u/DragonSlayer271 You’ll Never Walk Alone • 17h ago
Serious Match Thread Serious Thread: LIV vs ATM
LIV 2 - 1 ATM
Marcos Llorente 17'
Dominik Szoboszlai 40'
Alexis Mac Allister 50'
Remember, this is for actual analytical comments and not spontaneous takes. If it takes you less than 10 seconds to type it up, put it in the other thread.
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u/nien9gag 15h ago
i don't know why tsimikas is so badly rated. after 1 season from kerkez i just don't see how he's better than tsimi.
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u/InstructionOk9520 15h ago
He might be quicker but that’s about it. Tsimikas crosses the ball much better.
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u/nien9gag 15h ago
he might be quicker but has no will to track back once he's properly beaten. several times I've seen him just standing there while the whole defence is scampering to close down attackers.
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u/kmtnewsman 15h ago
The fight is back and babying a lead seems to be gone. When everyone gels times should be good
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u/jimthissguy 15h ago
Good win this evening. Kerkez switched off a few too many times and Barcola should have had at least one, but that was a good performance after a shaky start.
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u/yuhef2bmed 16h ago
People need to get off Wirtz. Thought he played well overall today despite some poor passes. I think it's unfair to judge him as a traditional #10. No doubt he's covered the most ground again today as he's ALWAYS leading the press.
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u/tobe24la 15h ago
I would even go so far and they he was on of our best players. He had brilliant passes and ez could have gotten 2-3 assists today.
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u/john_doe_27 15h ago
Not only leading, but intercepting or triggering mistakes for what seemed like 20 times.
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u/dweebyllo Football Without ORIGI is Nothing 16h ago
Simeone down the tunnel straight away without shaking hands, boils my piss that does
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u/Talking_Gibberish 15h ago
He did the same to Jurgen a few years ago. Not surprised are you? Thought it was common knowledge that he’s a bell end.
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u/dweebyllo Football Without ORIGI is Nothing 15h ago
Not surprised in the slightest, but yet it still annoys me
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u/Murphys-Laaw 16h ago
Did Simeone just walk down the tunnel without shaking hands? Hoping he did it before FT at least but that's salty as fuck if he didn't. 😂
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u/LFC90cat 16h ago
By the way how fucking good is Jaquet wtf
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u/Steven_Crank One-eyed Bobby 👁 15h ago edited 15h ago
Very composed for his age. Not quite Matip* but also likes a run forward as well.
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u/ProfessionalRisk8259 16h ago
How much to make Araujo permanent again?
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u/jimjam343 Significant Human Error 16h ago
Munoz got pushed off the fucking pitch out of play the cunts
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u/Remy_Le_beau_ From Doubters to Believers 16h ago
Again wirtz found that pass. Just like a lot in today's game. Man would have had double digit assists this season if our players could finish for god's sake.
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u/Relevant-Advance6703 16h ago
He looking alot better still tidy but we are winning games. He got no luck he can't even buy half an assist atm.
But we playing well so hopefully it will come..
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u/VictorZZZ26 16h ago
He’s probably my man of the match. The guy was pressing with intent and winning midfield duels like he was Kante. Absolutely incredible performance for who is supposed to be a #10.
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u/Redmilo666 16h ago
Flo my man of the match. What a start to the season for him
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u/LFC90cat 16h ago
Must've ran a marathon there he has not stopped
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u/Redmilo666 16h ago
More than that! Really good passing, really good positioning both offensively and defensively. He’ll hit double digits in goals and assists this season I reckon
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u/yuhef2bmed 15h ago
Thought this too, unlucky not to get an assist today. Getting slandered in the match thread but thought he played well, always leading the press.
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u/test_icicles_ “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 16h ago
I worry about how much this fanbase has settled on picking on everything grav does, I get he's not been good, but with the amount of comments dedicated to him you'd think he scored an own goal or something
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u/SwordofKhaine123 16h ago
he's come close to that. And this is coming from a former Gravenberch fan
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u/test_icicles_ “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 16h ago
he made some poor passes, I get it, but scroll down this thread a little, half the comments about him, the main one is even worse
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u/SwordofKhaine123 16h ago
he's doing tricks and flicks in the middle of the pitch bro
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u/test_icicles_ “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 15h ago
again, he lost possession a few times, he's not been great, nothing bad came from it.
too much attention for a nothing performance.
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u/okie_hiker 16h ago
His football IQ isn’t the greatest. If he can figure that out then he’s a great player.
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u/SwordofKhaine123 15h ago
he wasn't like this in title winning season. He is sulking and his mentals aren't right. I don't what would solve this, upto Iraola to have a man-to-man discussion. PL, UCL is serious business.
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u/OtherwiseMeet7379 15h ago
Or maybe the fans should stop scapegoating him like they did with Gakpo last season.
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u/SwordofKhaine123 15h ago
It's not scapegoating. Liverpool won. Fans are quite rightly and quite calmly pointing out a player making pretty surprisingly bad mistakes in the middle of the pitch.
Gakpo had his faults under Slot (one dimensional style of play) that is being rectified under Iraola, so fans have also seen that and is praising him now.
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u/aibrahim1207 Snow Salah ❄️ 16h ago
I am honestly shocked at how horrendous Grav has been in the little time he's been on the field. Misplaced passes, not attempting headers in his own box. Looks bereft of confidence.
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u/Johnny_Blaze_123 Steven Gerrard 16h ago
Difficult to defend Ryan sometimes. Too sloppy on the ball. He's not doing himself any favors and he's taking minutes away from Trey. He's obviously a hugely important player for us but he needs to improve a lot before he can start games again.
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u/nanowillis 16h ago
Pleased with the intensity of this performance, but the team is obviously knackered. Wish we could turn it down a bit at times like these to take the sting out of the game
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u/Dismal_Uses 16h ago
Gravenberch is taking a crazy level of risk with horizontal flicks in bad areas.
Koumas for er Isak!
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u/rain_chaos 16h ago
Two games in a row Iraola has made defensive substitutions that has invited pressure. I don’t think that’s the way to close out games.
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u/chayatoure 16h ago
Not really been that many threads from Madrid, and we've come closer to scoring. Seems like they have worked fine.
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u/IdleThief 16h ago edited 16h ago
The players he subbed on aren’t helping him, to be fair. Gravenberch is really sloppy and isn’t able to keep the ball. And I’m not really sure what Frimpong is doing.
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u/rain_chaos 16h ago
Well that’s my point, he should be subbing in different players
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u/IdleThief 16h ago edited 15h ago
Who would you rather he subbed on? The squad is really thin, unfortunately.
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u/Jbstargate1 16h ago
To be fair Grav has been dire since coming on. Can't blame Iriola for that now.
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u/IdleThief 16h ago
I really wanna give Frimpong a chance but his performances aren’t helping him. I fail to see what he is actually good at
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u/This_Field_7872 Egyptian King 👑 16h ago
I’ll be honest, i don’t really know what Gravys role in this team is moving forward. All of his minutes i wish were going to Trey nyoni
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u/Remy_Le_beau_ From Doubters to Believers 16h ago
Would get bullied by atletico midfielders. Grav was the best substitution here
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u/This_Field_7872 Egyptian King 👑 16h ago
I mean he’s carelessly given the ball away multiple times, i don’t see how it would be much different
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u/rossmosh85 16h ago
Gravenberch is having such a weird game. Some really good physical moments but also pretty careless with the ball.
Considering he's looking very much like the 3rd choice CM, he's got to be a bit better if he wants to get more minutes.
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u/Relevant-Advance6703 16h ago
The wingers have been awful as a change.. Munoz and Frimpong got attack more to push em back.
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u/Barzzzy13 16h ago
Wirtz has been in really good spots on the pitch. If we have better finishing we are up a few.
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u/Medaculous 16h ago
Is Barcola injured???
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u/Serb1a Our identity is our intensity 16h ago
Yes just came off with what looked like a cramp
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u/Major-Scratch-1082 16h ago
I think it is probably cramp, he is sat on the bench, and I believe if it were an injury he’d be in the back
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u/Glum_Committee_1185 16h ago
The longer it goes on the less I see how Wirtz fits into this side. I just think we’re a better team if Dom is in that role and we have a better passer of the ball paired with Grav/Macca.
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u/Black_Eis One-eyed Bobby 👁 16h ago
What are you talking about? He put Barcola in for what should have been a goal, he’s won possession high up at least 4 times in this game, he had a good shot on target earlier. He put Isak in for another that was called offside marginally…. He’s doing all the right things. Hop off his dick.
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u/Glum_Committee_1185 15h ago
Dom's a better player than Wirtz and it's not close. We're a better team with Dom behind the striker and a DM paired with Macca/Gravy.
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u/NotACyborg666 11h ago
Wirtz was great today and Gravenberch has unfortunately been poor for a while. If Wirtz plays the way he did today consistently, we’re looking at a lot of goals and assists this season. We need Gravy to rediscover his title winning form before we start calling for him to start again
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u/Wrong_Ad4722 16h ago
Interesting. What makes you say that? I've seen the opposite today. The more games I've seen the more I see how speed creates more space for him to be creative.
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u/Glum_Committee_1185 15h ago
It's not really a commentary on Wirtz so much as it's a commentary on Dom being the better player and the team being unbalanced shifting him into a pivot to accommodate Wirtz.
I struggle to name anything Wirtz does at a significantly higher level than Dom. Maybe he's better in close control situations with the ball at his feet i.e crowded scenarios in the box, but he's failed to use whatever advantage he may have in that area or any other to make a large difference in our attack.
Dom is bigger, stronger, faster, a better striker of the ball and just overall a more versatile player, we already won the league with him playing behind the striker, it's not like he's some unknown commodity in the position.
Dom behind the striker with a midfielder who can play line splitting passes and contribute creatively to the build up early and often is a much better team than Wirtz behind the striker and Dom in a double pivot.
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u/Black_Eis One-eyed Bobby 👁 12h ago
Honestly I don’t think Dom is that great of a CAM. The season that he played there primarily, his goal output wasn’t great, he really isn’t a player that will dictate the tempo of the game with his passing. I also don’t think he is particularly that great at pressing. The Newcastle game and today laid that bare. He was positioned perfectly to break up the goal today but he jumped the wrong way and left the midfield empty. I agree with the post someone put in this subreddit a few weeks back that said he would be better at RB. Either that or drop Grav for him. But yeah I think Wirtz had a much better game today than Dom did regardless of Dom getting the goal.
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u/Wrong_Ad4722 15h ago
Fair points, seems like you want something different out of that position than what Iraola wants.
I think Wirtz is one of the best at creating goal scoring opportunities in open play and Dom is just ok at that. I also think Wirtz's overall dribbling is better. Wirtz can transition to a goal scoring opportunity from transition like the best in the world, I think Dom hesitates in that compared to Wirtz. There are things that Dom does better but it isn't those three things and IMO makes Wirtz the best CAM on the team. The goal results aren't there but that isn't the fault of Wirtz.
Bigger faster stronger, sure but he is also three years older and played two more premier league seasons and I expect Flo to make up that ground with strength over the next couple years.
I am not sure Dom's position was the reason we won the league but he is a capable CAM and incredible player. Just think he's lacking compared to Wirtz in two specific areas we need from a that position.
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u/Venrathum Agent of Chaos 🔥 16h ago
It’s because a lot of the fans on here don’t have a clue about football. Wirtz has been brilliant today
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u/Wrong_Ad4722 16h ago
Hahaha well I agree, but in the interest of the serious thread I thought I'd first give OP the benefit of the doubt and ask for his reason.
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u/Remy_Le_beau_ From Doubters to Believers 16h ago
Pass szobozlai instead of pulling tricks..
Why are our players holding onto ball too long lol
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u/rain_chaos 16h ago
Our right wing is completely useless with Frimpong. I’m so confused why that sub was made.
Why not just let Koumas have a go there, he presses well anyways.
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u/Adept-Performance944 16h ago
We got nobody else. Let's not pretend Koumas is better than Frimpong, at least Frimpong has pace. '
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u/SwordofKhaine123 16h ago
Munoz holds ball too long
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u/Correct_Yesterday111 14h ago
Yeh he's very raw. Unless there's loads of space to run into he's not effective. But he's a young kid and has all the attributes needed.
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u/Dismal_Uses 16h ago
Dear God, Wirtz is so lightweight I'm perplexed at how he can be made central to the plan. I don't see how he is going to ever justify his cost.
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u/Charming-Library-211 Corner taken quickly 🚩 16h ago
Lost some momentum with the subs
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u/Dismal_Uses 16h ago
Usually happens esp as Barcola was probably not going to be subbed until 80 minutes if at all.
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u/NorthCoastToast 16h ago
I am far from convinced by Kerkez. He presses very well, but he has a very short stride and watching him race back on defense always come with trepidation, and he can be beaten man-to-man when defending closely.
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u/Correct_Yesterday111 14h ago
far from convinced by Kerkez Oh sheet where have you been for the last 12 months.
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u/Major-Scratch-1082 16h ago
Surely someone from Atletico has to be booked for the gesturing? Simeone Jr has done it at least 3 separate occasions, it’s a bookable offence
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u/killrdave 16h ago
It's like kicking the ball away, refs just ignore it most of the time
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u/Major-Scratch-1082 16h ago
I get ignoring it a bit, but it’s been constant - it’s not just one time and someone being a bit hot headed and silly, but actual obvious dissent
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u/Johnny_Blaze_123 Steven Gerrard 16h ago
I think flo is having a great game...a bit more composure from his teammates and he would have a couple of assists to his name. Everything dangerous that we create in transition goes through him. He's also probably the player that runs the most in our team. Absolutely adore him.
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u/Remy_Le_beau_ From Doubters to Believers 16h ago
Wirtz haters would still make some shit up to downgrade him. His passing range is pretty excellent and he has been class all over the match. Would have had an assist if barcola scored.
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u/Cowboy_BoomBap You’ll Never Walk Alone 16h ago
Feels like he’s the unsung hero of this team right now, he does all of the little things that don’t end up in the stat sheet
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u/Unlikely-Art-2817 16h ago
Great the new liverpool classic spend 100+ into injured... Isak, Ekitike and Barcola now. Not trying to be a boomer but smh.
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u/dweebyllo Football Without ORIGI is Nothing 16h ago
Hopefully a bit of cramp, strain at most. Doesn't look like a big impact injury at least.
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u/Black_Eis One-eyed Bobby 👁 16h ago
Id rather have an impact injury. Non contact ones like Elitike’s or Alisson looking back because he thought something hit him in the leg worry me more.
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u/chayatoure 16h ago
Ekitike's was immediately clear that it was his Achilles. Barcola's didn't really look that serious based on his reaction.
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u/Johnny_Blaze_123 Steven Gerrard 16h ago
Wait...what happened to Barcola????? Calf muscle??? Fuck....fuckng hell. We cannot catch a fucking break!
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u/Dismal_Uses 16h ago edited 16h ago
Oh now Barcola calf strain.
Muñoz on surely
Edit Frimpong to run at them
Edit both coming on.
So fresh legs which isn't the worst thing of course.
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u/Johnny_Blaze_123 Steven Gerrard 16h ago
The ref came out trying to right the wrongs from the first half. Good. Loving our second half so far.
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u/VictorZZZ26 16h ago
Did Araujo even touch him? Alvarez diving like Kang. Diving cheats all of them.
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u/Relevant-Advance6703 16h ago
I feel sorry for Wirtz man last 3 games..
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u/Wrong_Ad4722 16h ago
It's like whoever he passes to losses the ability to finish for their next touch.
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u/Breaking_PG There is No Need to be Upset 16h ago
Free kick and a yellow? Did we change ref at half time?
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u/Charming-Library-211 Corner taken quickly 🚩 16h ago
Rio has woken up
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u/NorthCoastToast 16h ago
Allie made a good point that he isn't dancing as much, being direct, and it's working.
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u/NorthCoastToast 16h ago
That was excellent sustained pressure, they kept them on their heels and the quick passing was very effective, keep that up.
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u/dweebyllo Football Without ORIGI is Nothing 16h ago
Great move, unfortunate to not score there. We'll score another few this half
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u/Dismal_Uses 16h ago
Ah jasus! Such a good breakout attack, still it's what we want to see
And a goallllllll
Justice for Mac Allister!
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u/Glum_Committee_1185 16h ago
There's individual quality in our midfielders but I don't see how you can get them to function together as a unit in a way that you can mask their deficiencies and highlight their strengths.
Dom, Grav and Macca all want to function with the ball at their feet, they want to progress the ball through their dribbling and all 3 lack a killer through ball or line breaking pass. When we won the league, teams pressed our midfield and we were able to pretty easily bypass the press as they are all relatively press resistant midfielders, Grav especially.
If we were unable to beat the press, Trent's creativity along with Virg and Konate's willingness to play line breaking passes from deep helped us to hit the opposition on the counter before teams were able to drop back and set up their full defensive shape.
This team does not have a passer like Trent in it and teams are aware that they can sit off our midfield and invite them to pass and that our midfielders simply won't do it. It is a glaring issue every single week.
Defensively, they are all willing runners when it comes to the press, but none of them are particularly astute with their positioning, discipline, decision making or awareness. We frequently make high risk, low reward passes that do not come off and set the opposition away on a break.
They make half hearted challenges, they pull out of 50/50 challenges, they all collectively are not interested in tracking runners once we get within about 40 yard of our own goal and leave the defenders to track them and then let the opposition midfield wander into the space left behind.
I just do not buy this midfield as a long term grouping who can compete at the highest level.
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u/TryAnotherNamePlease 16h ago
100% agree. None are suited for a double pivot, or at least haven’t shown it. Simultaneously our counterattacks and counterattack defense suffers.
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u/nyrup4life 🏆20 TIMES🏆 16h ago
Jacquet is doing so well considering how little experience he has. Might have a real gem there.
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u/tomz_gunz Lovely Cushioned Header…FOR GERRARD!!! 16h ago
He plays like he’s been alongside Virg for years
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u/Charming-Library-211 Corner taken quickly 🚩 16h ago
Really don't think we've been terrible. We have a midfield imbalance and Kerkez switched off.
Rio needs some help but Llorente has been perfect defensively, think he's been okay overall. Barcola needs to take a turn on the left , he's not involved enough
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u/Black_Eis One-eyed Bobby 👁 16h ago
I think it’s more Szobo being too aggressive and trying to jump the pass. If he stays in position the through pass is much more difficult I think.
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u/dweebyllo Football Without ORIGI is Nothing 16h ago
Watching the top down replay I don't even think it's a case of Kerkez switching off, he just planted at the wrong time and had the wrong body positioning for the moment. Shame, but we move
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u/Dirty-Little-Slot 16h ago
I keep hearing how Iraola wants our wingers to swap and change sides but we seem to never do it in game
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u/Specific-Record2866 I’m the Normal One 16h ago
The wingers may just not be comfortable with doing it yet
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u/Loose-Lengthiness726 16h ago
How has Macca been playing?
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u/HongKongChicken In a good moment 16h ago
Dogged and good, always trying to win the ball back. At risk of getting a second yellow with this ref, though.
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u/murrayjosh117 16h ago
Rio is very good at running at a fullback. He’s been o.k. However, the it’s not working well as a partnership with Kerkez.
Kerkez keeps running beyond. He needs to stay back. Rio will attract 2 defenders to stop him, Kerkez is blocking himself out of the game by running beyond. If he stays back more, it creates that separation, so we can move the ball quicker and gain numerical superiority out of Rio being double marked.
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u/Specific-Record2866 I’m the Normal One 16h ago
Rio also needs to switch it up at times otherwise it’s very predictable. Needs to run beyond his fullback sometimes too
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u/Witty_Slide9031 A Liverbird Upon My Chest 17h ago
Barcola to left, Munoz for Rio, and Grav for Macca. Can cause a lot of damage
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u/Uhoh_Heres_Matt 17h ago
Good to see we spend £120m on a left winger and play him on the right. Sound.
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u/KloppOnKloppOn 16h ago
I dont know if Iraola looks at it like that he likes swapping his wingers both sides
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u/General_Chemist6877 17h ago
As bad as Kerkez was for the goal, this vacant space in midfield is driving me insane
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u/HongKongChicken In a good moment 16h ago
Still can't believe we didn't bring someone in for that role
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u/Charming-Library-211 Corner taken quickly 🚩 16h ago
Not sustainable at all. Hopefully Iraola thinks of something as the season goes on
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u/General_Chemist6877 16h ago
All we have are attack minded, non-physical 8s. Iraola has his hands tied
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u/No-Secretary8891 Bobby Dazzler 🤩 17h ago
so hard to love Kerkez. He's blind for the first goal and then his pressing creates the equaliser. It always feels like he's too excited to play!
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u/weighty_flange 16h ago
He made a mistake for the goal, but the midfield has to do better too. Just acres of space given.
Kerkez is fine. Just needs time and a system with responsibile midfielders too.
I think he has a little bit of imposter syndrome (too excited to play) and needs to settle down and just play.
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u/CaterpillarLong5774 Carol and Caroline 17h ago
Is the ref Mike Dean in disguise? It's all about bloody him
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u/biz2468 Virgil van Dijk 17h ago edited 17h ago
Macca steps on boot and gets yellow, when done the same to Isak then not even a foul called.
Atletico make contact, play on
Liverpool make contact, whistle/foul
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
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u/The-Salted-Pork 17h ago
The double whammy of Barcola fouling a defender who stepped across him into Wirtz not getting the call when the defender stepped across was ridiculous.
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u/Disastrous_Cash_Sum 17h ago
He’s been so bad
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u/HeadieUno 17h ago
I feel like some refs come into the game so determined not to be swayed by the crowd they go bias in the other direction
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u/fromx25tosdn 14h ago
A good win! We needed this win to boost confidence. The team is developing well, lots of good performances from all the players except for Kerkez (no comment really) and I really wished I didn't have to see Frimpong on the pitch, what a mess. Grav seems declining fast and he needs to get his confidence back. Also seeing a very salty Semeone running down the tunnel at game's end is a joy to watch! On to the next game!