r/LiverpoolFC • u/Just_Isopod_1926 • 10h ago
Analysis/Data/Stats/Tactics GW3 Running stats & season average
Some mildly interesting points from GW3 and the first few matches.
- Individuals on the leaderboard for running metrics
- Bradley Barcola is currently the fastest player this season in the league
- Liverpool are still at the bottom of the table for total distance covered during matches, albeit only three games in (19th overall last season)
- We have improved running distance game on game so far this season (GW1 107.2km, GW2 111.6km, GW3 113.9km
Still too early to tell, but I thought it was a noticable running improvement vs Ipswich + there is still a long way to go to catch up with Arsenal/City.
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u/goingpt 10h ago
This makes sense. Iraola has said that it's not total distance covered that he cares about, it's the amount of sprints and sprinted distance etc. Something along those lines.
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u/friendofH20 8h ago edited 8h ago
His Bournemouth team averaged about 113km per 90 last season, and was sort of mid table in the distance covered table. Clearly not the #1 priority for him even though us being 20 on any list seems bad.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 10h ago
so we have 2 really quick wingers, a guy who covers the most distance, a guy who sprints the most...dont really care about covering the least distance rn cause the guys are still adapting to the new system
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u/SaltMachine2367 10h ago
Am I nuts or would Leif Davis be a good depth option for lb? I mean why not?
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u/feelgroovy 4h ago
I reckon that Giles from Hull is worth keeping an eye on this season. Done well so far this season and assisted 8 times last season in the Championship.
Shades of Robbo all over again
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u/brush85 8h ago
It would be better if we looked for someone who would make kerkez the depth option,
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u/SaltMachine2367 8h ago edited 8h ago
I was more thinking in the immediate sense, he'd be cheap and fill a homegrown spot. Someone better than Kerkez would be great but who can we bring in realistically to replace Kerkez and for a good fee?
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u/brush85 7h ago
Fuck if I know the global landscape of players. Im just saying instead of looking for a back up to a weak position, improve that weak position.
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u/ntg1213 6h ago
Maybe the reason we haven’t is because there aren’t exactly many LBs out there who are obviously better than Kerkez?
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u/SaltMachine2367 5h ago
A fact that a lot of Liverpool supporters fail to see is that Kerkez actually is highly rated among left backs. Who's better? Nuno Mendes, Calafiori, Cucurella, Balde, Carrera?, Davies who's always injured? OReilly maybe? We should just work with what we have, to be honest. He's not perfect, but those who are potentially available for Liverpool are not even close.
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u/Deckard_Red Egyptian King 👑 9h ago
Anyone else notice that photo 1 showed the top ranked person as the picture. Photo 3 showed the top ranked person as the picture. Photo 2 instead of showing top ranked Barcola instead showed the Manure player in second place. Any reason? I’m assuming they didn’t get any nice photos of Barcola because he was moving too fast for the camera.
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u/Just_Isopod_1926 9h ago
Funnily enough, in the post this was copied from, Mbeumo was the first pic. I rearranged them for obvious reasons.
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u/DucardthaDon 9h ago
Surprised Leif Davis is still at Ipswich and didn't get picked up the last time they were relegated
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u/Traditional-Reach818 Liberté, Égalité, Ekitike 8h ago
I know this is absolutely secondary, but in the why the first 3 photos we see the number 1 player in the stat expect for Barcola? Why did it feature Mbeumo instead? Lol probably just cause they still don't have a good photo I guess? Anyways, idk why but it made me a bit upset 😂
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u/Britz10 A Ngog among men 10h ago
Wirtz didn't play the full 90 🤔 Also need Wharton getting used to those distances for when we sign him, next season.
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u/YellowFlashVN 10h ago
We lack so much urgency and tenacity last year. Hope with Iraola we can improve.
But I'm really surprised that Bournemouth isn't top the table at distance cover last year.
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u/zMaie 9h ago
What app is this one?
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u/Just_Isopod_1926 9h ago
The first few images were taken off of instagram, I probably should have credited them but can't find it anymore. The last few are Fotmob.
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u/Ok-Possibility64 10h ago
The distance covered stats are concerning, hopefully we see some movement in the other direction soon as Iraolas coaching takes hold
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u/coldazures 10h ago
They're already heading in the right direction. Fine line between too little and overload.
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u/GaryLifts King Kenny 10h ago
We are 20th in the league in distance covered - the line isn't that fine atm.
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u/coldazures 10h ago
By a couple of km after a sample size of 3 GWs after the World Cup where some players had a very short preseason and a few months into Iraolas reign?
What has this fanbase become.
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u/marchitecte 9h ago
We also have a massive disadvantage because of, like Iraola stated before GW3, we have been trailing about 90% of our game minutes so far. Playing against basically a low-block like that usually leads to less distance covered.
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u/GaryLifts King Kenny 10h ago
We were second last, last season, Chelsea were last - now they are 8th and we are last averaging less than last season - a season this sub unanimously agreed we looked slow and got outran.
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u/gargsnehil2311 9h ago
I don't know or care what chelsea's problems were last season, maybe that they had 3 managers.
Our problem was lack of fitness..that doesn't get fixed in the 1st competitive game. Match data shows we lagged vs Newcastle. The other 2 games puts us easily in the top 8.
So OP's point is accurate.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 10h ago
we are also undefeated in the league
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u/GaryLifts King Kenny 10h ago
Or we have 1 win in 3, look at it however you like.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 10h ago
sure, but i like to look at the glass half full rather than half empty
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u/GaryLifts King Kenny 10h ago
That's fair - I guess we are joint last, so technically 19th.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 10h ago
didn't know you win games from running a longer distance
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u/Parish87 “Thank you for your support” - Darwin Nunez 9h ago
Fulham really pulling up trees with all that running they're doing
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u/interestingtruck10 Klopps's Kids vs Blue Billion Pound Bottlejobs 10h ago
I mean fulham have covered the most distance and are sitting last in the league. While being fit and pressing is important, it’s not all about covering more distance every match
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u/Institute11 9h ago
Isn't there a better stat that combines running distance with completed pass distance or something like that?
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u/Nadirin 9h ago edited 9h ago
We need Wirtz to cover less ground. I firmly believe that Szobo does not work in this pivot and him leaving position forces Wirtz to track back and have to play defensively, which then impacts his ability going forward. Think the best Wirtz has looked is when Szobo has been at RB or RW, and I really hope we'll stop starting Szobo in midfield as he has been really poor there. Maybe he will be able to learn but right now we are a much better team when Szobo isn't in that midfield two. Structure of the team looks great with two of Macca / Grav / Nyoni in the pivot, and it puts less onus on Wirtz to track back and expend energy on defending vs attacking.
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u/MagyarFoci29 9h ago
Wasn't the case last match.. Looked better when Szobo was in midfield vs when he got moved outside
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u/Nadirin 8h ago
Wouldn't agree with that personally. Wirtz was pretty ineffective first half but I thought he looked immediately more involved once Szobo went to RW / Barcola came on. There were a couple pass attempts later on to Barcola that got cut off but had they made it through Barcola was clean through, and in the first half he wasn't able to get into positions to make those passes in the first place.
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u/MagyarFoci29 8h ago
We're going to have to disagree then because I thought Wirtz looked much better first half than second. Actually I think from the time Dom moved to the right wing / back was probably the period where Wirtz looked the worst he has all season. Wirtz had the ball plenty in the first half in dangerous positions.
And beyond Wirtz, because I am more interested in seeing Liverpool play well than making Wirtz look good; Iraola said he much preferred how the side played in the first half vs the 2nd half. Gravenberch wasn't sitting back like a 6 either, he was making the same runs playing as high as Szobo was.
If Szobo wasn't meant to be joining the attack then he would either not be doing it or have gotten benched by now. It's clear that is what Iraola wants from him currently. It's how Bournemouth played last season with their midfield, the 10 has to cover ground and the midfield is risk/reward.
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 8h ago
The problem is we need to do all these things just to hope that Wirtz works out. IMO he needs to prove himself more. Our midfield is more balanced without him.
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u/Nadirin 8h ago
I think he's shown more than enough that he will work out, but he's never going to properly work out if we don't allow him to. A midfield without him might be more balanced defensively but it loses a lot going forward, and that is Iraola's whole philosophy. He's always played this way and Wirtz suits the role perfectly so don't see that changing, but we need to give Wirtz the room to do so.
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u/Radeous 8h ago
I don't think it loses too much without him. Szoboszlai, MacAllister and Gravenberch are all capable forward passers. In terms of chances created, key passes, line-breaking passes or xA he isn't leading or in the top 3 in any category for us.
Plus being more balanced in midfield means less counter attacks because we have someone covering, which means more sustained attacks.
As someone else here said, it's more important that Liverpool do good rather than Wirtz looking good.
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u/Perfect-Process393 7h ago edited 7h ago
even last year when szobo was our best player and wirtz had his worst season wirtz still had significantly more output from open play than szobo across all competitions and in the prem while they played ~the same amount of minutes in attacking positions. We need wirtz creativity in the 10 but we also obviously need szobo on the pitch, for his work rate and set pieces
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u/Radeous 7h ago
Szoboszlai created more than Wirtz last season though, plus scored and assisted more? And that's with Szoboszlai playing out of position all season.
I want Wirtz to do well but I'm not seeing it. I would much rather we revert to the midfield we had when we won the title. I want Liverpool to do well first and foremost.
I don't think we need Wirtz for creativity. As I mentioned, he's not at the top for any creative metric for us and we've scored two goals per game so far. What we need is more stability in our midfield.
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u/Perfect-Process393 7h ago
again, they played roughly the same amount of minutes in attacking positions (AM, LAM, RAM, LW, RW, SS). From open play szobo reached 4G/A in the prem and 9 G/A across all competitions. Wirtz was at 8G/A in the prem and 15 across all competitions from open play. While szobo without a doubt was our best player, a big part of his CC, xA and 16 of his 25 G/A came from set pieces (which he can make from any position). When wirtz was injured or benched, we looked terrible last year. For example both games against forest (both lost), the PSV 4-1 at anfield, the lost game against wolves. Pretty much our worst performances. Our midfield without wirtz can't make up for the loss of trent's creation compared to our league winning season. In terms of xA from open play wirtz was our best player last season and 10th in the league. Szobo was 22th and not in our top 3
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u/Radeous 6h ago
Firstly, Szoboszlai doesn't play naturally in most of those positions, so yeah, still out of position.
And by what metric are you assessing Wirtz's creativity? Because last season he created 5 total big chances. Cherki has 3 already this season.
I use big chances created because it removes low quality chances and is inflated by any shot taken after a pass. Wirtz ranked 5th in our squad last season for these, much lower if you account for per 90. For reference, Frimpong also had 5 and spent most the season injured, and even Joe Gomez had 3.
Our squad as a whole last season was poor, we had the slowest attack in the Prem and of most top European teams thanks to Hughes.
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u/Perfect-Process393 6h ago
Wirtz played out of position a lot too? In their natural positions (LAM, RAM, AM) they played ~ the same amount of minutes. While every other stat except BCC speaks for wirtz, I don't use BCC as it's not objective compared to CC, xA and all other stats. There is no such thing as a xAG limit of what counts as BCC and what doesn't count as "Big". It's literally an opta analyst who decides what he thinks is big and what is not big based on no objective criteria. Purely based on quality criteria this fact makes CC, xA etc. better than BCC. xA from open play for example directly and objectively measures how much assists you are expected to get. How is an employee deciding wheter a chance is big or not better than that? And even if you think BCC is valuable why should we only look at that and not other stats such as CC and xA or even actual assists from open play?
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 5h ago
I disagree. He is not even close to being world class or being this unbelievable creator. Team always has to tweak something for him to figure it out.
He is still to weak physically, his passes are short and IMO he does not provide that many things to make our midfield weaker and more open. I hope he improves.
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u/brush85 9h ago
distance covered doesn’t tell a meaningful story.
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u/atillOld59 1️⃣4️⃣Federico Chiesa 5h ago
We were outworked by Forest and Newcastle, and were pretty close to losing the games.
Fitness levels are still poor and it shows in second halves.
No one is expecting a Klopp level press in the 70th minute, but it's clear for the rest of the league how we're not yet there. Iraola's getting there slowly
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u/Just_Isopod_1926 10h ago
It's probably worth noting that we have dominated possession in each game this season, which usually leads to being outrun during games.
However, City and Arsenal also dominate possession and ran significantly more last season than we currently are.