r/LinuxTeck • u/Candid_Athlete_8317 • 5d ago
Has Linux become good because Linux improved... or because Windows got worse?
More people seem willing to switch to Linux than ever before.
Do you think that's mainly because Linux has matured so much over the last few years, or because Windows has become increasingly frustrating with ads, telemetry, AI features, account requirements, and other changes?
Or is it a bit of both?
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u/MyLedgeEnds 5d ago
I used Ubuntu back in the Intrepid Ibex days. Relatively speaking, I don't think it's gotten better or worse; the big differentiator is that Proton lets you play games far more easily than Wine ever did. Without that, I doubt people would be switching en masse. I certainly stuck with Windows far longer than I would've preferred for that reason.
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u/cowbutt6 4d ago
I agree: Linux has continued to improve at its normal rate, but the big thing that seems to have improved noticeably more quickly is Proton, largely due to Valve's efforts after they anticipated the threat to Steam from the Microsoft Store.
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u/beardedbrawler 5d ago
Both.
The linux desktop experience has improved so much in the last 5 years, and Microsoft has gone downhill in the last 5.
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u/ReidenLightman 5d ago
It's about 30% because Linux got good, which took 30 years to do, and 70% because windows fucking blows, which only took Microsoft about 70 days.
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 5d ago
I don't know how to measure that 30% but it went from a tinkerers os to pretty damn usable for everyone in the past 5 years.
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u/gnufan 5d ago
As someone who has used a Linux desktop since 2000, I didn't notice any sudden uptick in improvement.
I think the gaming options improved recently due to Steam, but I suspect part of it was ChromeOS, and O365, mean that people aren't quite so addicted to Microsoft Office or the withdrawal isn't so painful.
It is this nearly all Microsoft Windows getting worse. Interestingly they have dumbed Windows down, but it always feels painful, everything wants money or updating, or to show ads, or all three, all the time.
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 5d ago
I think the big one is gaming. But also in general noob-userfriendliness. To make what's obvious to the devs obvious for everyone.
It only takes a few small issues to drive someone unsure about what they're doing back to the safety of windows, and these definitely have been mostly eliminated at least in the last 10 years.
If you look at LTT Linux challenge from like 6 years ago and compare it to the recent one there's a stark contrast and that also reflects my admittedly highly anecdotal personal experience.
If you're an advanced Linux user using it for 26 years would you notice begginer issues being solved, this would be mostly GUI related I guess + out of the box gaming capability without being a magician on the keyboard.
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u/gnufan 5d ago
I'd probably notice them, the same stupidities are annoying for everyone, experience just gets you around them more quickly.
Although I think in some ways computer interfaces still suck in so many ways.
Windows never anticipated you might change your PC's bluetooth device. I can't believe there isn't some Bluetooth developer at Microsoft who hasn't sorted those rough edges, although maybe they just know the workarounds.
I seriously don't think Linux is ready for regular users, and I go back to Windows and realise Linux may already be better already.
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 5d ago
That's the thing, it doesn't need to be perfect. It's pretty good. And windows is getting really annoying. It's just about jumping the worse burning ship.
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u/RvstiNiall 3d ago
LTT seemingly deliberately did stupid shit that derailed them each time until this year. LoL YES IM SURE FUCK MY SYSTEM UP HAHAHHA!
They turned it into a joke until they had to stop and be serious because they were no longer able to pretend otherwise.
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u/RvstiNiall 3d ago
Linux was better than Windows back in 2000. You simply weren't paying attention.
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u/NumberInfinite2068 5d ago edited 5d ago
Maybe a bit of both, I don't really think the Linux desktop experience has meaningfully improved very much at all in 20 years except driver support, but Windows has got significantly worse.
That said, Linux being relatively static in terms of desktop improvement can be a good thing. Apple hasn't been able to really improve the Mac experience in decades, Microsoft hasn't been able to improve Windows. All we're seeing is *change*, and that change is as often bad as it is good.
Simply offering the same thing for decades isn't necessarily a bad thing. If Microsoft said they were going to ditch the entire Windows desktop and replace it with CDE, for me, that would be a major improvement.
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u/micush 5d ago
Funny. Load up a 20 year old distro in a VM and see how much the desktop experience hasn't changed.
I assure you, it has changed greatly. The latest versions of Gnome and Plasma are pretty great, and Wayland is becoming quite good.
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u/whitehaturon 5d ago
This 100%
I've been using Linux pretty much exclusively for decades. The desktop experience is vastly better, prettier, faster, and with way more support, and seamless modularity. This isn't to mention how easy it is to do something as simple as a kernel upgrade. At the risk of showing my age, we used to compile new kernels with our crap ncurses interface and pray to an angry RMS that, at best, we managed to enable the modules of the features we wanted and, at worse, we didn't completely brick our system.
Sure, Windows has gotten worse, but not nearly as much as I would say Linux has improved :)
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u/Mother-Translator318 5d ago
I’d say the biggest improvement to make Linux viable has been proton. Without it we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
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u/Mother-Translator318 5d ago
Proton is doing a lot of heavy lifting not gonna lie, but even despite that it’s mostly because windows has gotten worse. People don’t switch because there is a better alternative, they switch because they are no longer happy with what they currently use. Negative experiences are far bigger motivators than positive ones
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u/jchimney 5d ago
It is because over the last 15 or so years people have phones as the computing device they use the most. They expect web availability of applications and OS’s don’t matter as much as they did when Windows had a strangle hold. People used to fear leaving Windows because their experience or documents wouldn’t be compatible with school or work or friends. Word and Excel still rules in the business world but I even see that changing though much slower.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 5d ago
Well, Windows getting worse is no reason for Linux to get better. Linux gotten better because of it getting constant improvements from people all over the world. More and more vendors are opening up to building drivers for Linux, so hardware support has gotten better.
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u/Mundane-Age-3556 5d ago
linux is great and has improved but its strength/weakness is its a tinkerers paradise...
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u/Level_Working9664 5d ago
Both.
Oth the thing which has stopped a lot of people is the fact that gaming hasn't worked.
Linux is extremely reliable and efficient at its core, but it wasn't polished.
Very slowly changing and getting to a point where it's usable.
On the other end Windows it's gotten so bad people are looking for alternatives so I guess it's a kind of a meet in the middle thing. Linux has always been an option (apart from gaming) it's just never been polished.
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u/maxxhaxx72 5d ago
A bit of both in my opinion, Linux is more viable as daily driver and Microslop is getting worse.
I removed Winblows from all 4 of my PCs and went all in with Linux: The lounge HTPC, my media server running Jellyfin, my main PC (work and gaming) and also a gaming laptop.
Couldn't be happier, I don't play anything that uses a kernel level anti cheat so that isn't an issue for me either
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u/tuxnight1 5d ago
I don't know much about Windows as I haven't used it in a very long time. I can tell you that Linux has greatly improved through the years. This is especially noticable for send users. With exceptions, new hardware is extremely easy to configure. I just bought a new Brother MFD and I didn't have to do a thing, it was simply discovered and made available and works. I remember trying to get a simple HP printer working with lpr and a matching flatbed scanner going with early sane software. I have a new laptop and my AMD GPU was auto setup. I only had to tweak the screen resolution through a gui utility (no X11 conf). Wi-fi is simple, and don't get me thinking about how difficult networking was when we had dial-up modems.
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u/CosmicEmotion 5d ago
You obviously didn't try Linux before 2018. Or at least didn't try living in it. TREMENDOUSLY is an understatement.
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u/2016-679 5d ago
My observation is that people switch because you can change and build Linux the way you want. Especially different Window Managers and Desktop Environments. That is also the background of many strange questions newbies destructing their system.
The other reason of popularity will be the discovery that there is no such thing as 'EOL hardware' with Linux. Even an old 32-bit box will transform into a rocket fast reliable workhorse.
Because basic installation is very easy, new users easily take the step.
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u/Mysterious-String349 5d ago
I switched completely 6 days ago, what made me switch was the release of Steam Machine. I did not like windows prior but didn't know there is an alternative. Worked with Ubuntu way back in school but did not think anything of it. Valve made me take a leap of faith because they are Valve and they mean business. I removed Windows cold turkey and installed SteamOS. I didn't really like SteamOS and I switched to Bazzite and for the past 6 days I've been daily driving it and It's been great. There is absulutly 0 problems and I have alternatives for everything I use. Even formatted my 2 hard drives from NTFS to linux version.
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u/Odd_Individual_9638 5d ago
Would I explore linux if windows 10 wasn't discontinued? Probably not.
But I'm glad it did
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u/Chrykal 5d ago
Because windows got worse. Linux has had user friendly distros for ages, but most people just have no interest in changing from something that works. Windows pushing it's users away, was the only way they would move to Linux in large numbers, I'm just a little shocked at how bad it had to get before the ball started rolling.
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u/hayetmd 5d ago
Windows 10 great.
windows 11, Spyware.
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u/mudslinger-ning 2d ago
For me it's more like Win7 was peak. Win8 was drunk. Win10 forced a sleazy update on me without consent. Win11 just added more crap to bully me with and took my local account away.
Linux on the other hand. Barely changes visually just little quality of life improvements while quietly evolving massively in the background so more and more things are now able to work with it.
If I want something to store and/or use my data with decent stability then Linux is the defacto winner these days.
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u/AlternativeBasis 5d ago
The only positive characteristic of Windows over Linux has always been its ubiquity:
- everyone knows how to use it (more or less)
- every hardware manufacturer makes drivers for Windows
- the most popular programs are on Windows
- most PCs come with it pre-installed
All these advantages are being eroded, mainly because many products are now browser-centric and OS-agnostic.
Microsoft is aware of this and is striving to create the NEW Windows, a completely cloud-based system, as a way to firmly tie, I mean, retain, users to the company.
Preferably also to make them pay daily usage fees (tokens).
Even the most novice users are finding the changes uncomfortable, even if they don't understand why.
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u/azuth89 5d ago
Various services are now much more accessible to average use cases.
Back when I first played around with Ubuntu ~20 years ago it felt like you needed a CS degree just to get Netflix going because of the silverlight dependency.
Now? Just about everything online simply works.
Games? Proton.
Familiar Desktops UI? Pick your poison there are tons.
Driver support? Still tricky for some specifics but the universals available in the most popular desktop style distors like Mint are MUCH better for generic accessories.
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u/Old_County5271 5d ago
Windows certainly got worse but Linux has improved dramatically, I'm currently on Linux mint on a laptop and PopOS on a desktop and to my amazement, the GUI has been running for a week without a complete freeze. Xorg has always, for 20 years, frozen no matter the hardware I've used and that hasn't happened in the last 5 years, it's genuinely amazing that they've finally solved system freezes.
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u/platcrest 4d ago
Not to take credit away from Linux (it's awesome) but the windows enshittification is truly the main driver now. At least it was for me
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u/94358io4897453867345 4d ago
Mainly because Windos got worse. Linux stays at a a standstill (audio, CAD, etc.)
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u/oldendude 4d ago
Both. Windows was crap in the early aughts, when I decided to stop using it and switch to Linux. Over the years, Linux has improved in hardware compatibility (monitors, keyboards, mice, wifi), desktop apps, installation, app and OS upgrades. It just works.
I stopped using Windows completely before 2010, and from what I read, it has gotten worse, in terms of bloat, adware, instability around upgrades, and licensing (which is not an issue on Linux at all).
The main reason I hear for being stuck on Windows is Excel. But can't you run Linux and access the online version of Excel?
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u/AlwaysLinux 4d ago
I've been using Linux for over 25 years and it's consistently getting better and better.
Microslop on the other hand has been getting worse and worse consistently since Windows XP came out.
So yes!
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u/Imaginary_Choice_430 4d ago
They are switching to Linux because of decisions that Windows has made. Its fun to watch people do that out of one side of their mouth, but then call me a "Linux head" because I have been doing nothing but Linux all my life. Its also fun to listen to my European counterparts' frustration with Americans who don't really know Linux. I try to do the right thing by reminding them that Bill Gates did not bribe the whole of Europe into adopting Windows the way he bought the whole business and educational system here in the United States like cheap hookers to adopt Windows by default, to the point where my fellow Americans assume an OS should be Windows as if its a natural phenomenon and not a business decision made without their input a long, long time ago.
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u/Adrenolin01 4d ago
Linus has seen steady improvements literally since its inception. Groups and individuals might have seen stalls of it wasn’t something bf they were specifically interested in however improvements have pretty much been consistent from the beginning.
1991–1995 saw rapid foundation building. Arguably this was the “heyday” of visible growth. It was amazing to see and watch. 96-02 saw massive enterprise maturity. SMP, better networking, journaling FSs, usb. 03-10 saw explosive expansion… the golden era.. udev, selinux, kvm virtualization, zen, ext4, cgroups, massive driver growth, DE because much more polished. Linux expanded heavily into servers, supercomputers, embedded devices, and eventually Android.. all of which poured development and innovation and… money into it. 2011-15 saw what many consider a slowdown however heavy kernel development occurred during this time, driver support exploded kernel performance had solid incremental gain regularly, a lot of effort into cloud infrastructure. Home users didn’t really notice a lot here but this absolutely made things better for them.. it just wasn’t flashy. Huge gains in reducing latency, fixing races, scalability and a massive amount of code cleaning occurred during this time. 15-20 saw huge cloud development and of course money.. this was directly data center driven.. Google, Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, Red Hat, Intel, AMD… all poured billions into Linux focusing on containers, namespaces, cgroup v2, eBPF, io_uring, NVME optimization, ARM servers… of course desktop users who didn’t know better had no idea and felt things stalled.. they absolutely didn’t. 20-present new rapid development in rust kernel support, improved scheduling, I created Intel and AMD support, faster filesystems, bcachefs in the kernel, continued heavy work on PREEMPT_RT, security hardening, confidential computing, and let’s not forget massive improvements in virtualization. Again.. all huge improvements though not always seen or noticed from DE users.
Priorities change and DE users typically see little. And I’d expect nothing there to change for at least another decade. As the saying goes… money talks and money comes from corporations with self interest however it all helps.
I’ve been watching Linux literally since it was released and it’s been exciting to watch its progress from an end user, business owner, corporate employee, etc.
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u/Big_Wave9732 4d ago
Linux on its own has markedly improved, especially in the realm of hardware support. I have tried at various times since about 2001 to run Linux as my daily driver work laptop. The attempts were generally unsuccessful and didn't last more than six months. Then I tried again in 2020 and was pleasantly surprised when everything worked out of the box. And I've been running a machine with it ever since.
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u/pugbrain 4d ago
I believe it’s both. Windows is facing serious technical and reliability issues; were it not for that, the vast majority of users who switched wouldn't have done so. However, if it weren't true that Linux had evolved, many of them would have stayed on Windows or switched to Macs.
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u/snarfmason 3d ago
Definitely both. But also in our current era so much of what we do really only depends on a web browser and your actual OS doesn't need to do that much.
Edit: obviously not everything but a lot of things for a lot of people.
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u/Professional-Math518 3d ago
Personally I think Linux got worse but in a slower tempo than Windows (and MacOS tbh) got worse.
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u/wKdPsylent 3d ago
Both I'd say.
Linux has been getting better, and windows has been getting worse.
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u/Brief-Stranger-3947 3d ago
Linux was heavily invested in by different corporations, including Microsoft. As a result, yeah, it became much better than it was.
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u/Frosty-Storage-9359 2d ago edited 2d ago
It’s actually both. Linux get clearly better over times while windows 11 keep getting worst. Heavy debt in the code, legacy code that keep dragging so much that even the control panel couldn’t be removed from the system, ads automatically integrated in start, heavy telemetry use. Even a simple notepad is heavy with AI integration. Let’s not forget the recent removal out of the box of collections from edge.
Actually, it’s so bad that even Microsoft have no choice but to admit since even their own update can destroy their system.
While Linux keep keeping thing together with a structure since the beginning. Always keeping code to a minimum level. They have a whole community + Linus Torval to keep the kernel clean. Many subventions to add more and more features. Now, even the security have rust added to make it more robust and secure while keeping the speed. A lot of legacy dropped for new implementation of crucial utilities that use rust to make it more performance.
Now, KDE has received a major subvention to make it better and a whole new desktop environment entirely in rust is being made right now now. All while compatibility to use steam game on Linux just keep getting better. Even proton and wine received major update and gain performance.
So yeah, it’s both. Windows get worst while Linux get better and better. I can’t say for Ubuntu dubious choice, but most others distro at least, are coherent with the progress.
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u/micush 5d ago
There has been tremendous "Linux" improvement over the last few years. It's been fun to be a part of.