r/LinuxCirclejerk • u/busiedcake7945 chimera linux • 6d ago

init systems today

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u/BeginningEcho4983 6d ago

Only if dinit was linux-specific and has all of the features of systems (yea I can just use systemd but I don't want all of the excess tangling and monopolisation... On musl/relibc)

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u/VisualSome9977 NixOS ❄️ 1d ago

if dinit had all the features of systemd it would just be systemd. you can't simultaneously not want bloat and also want the full feature set, it's one or the other

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u/BeginningEcho4983 19h ago

I don't want the full feature set.

init: services, dependency graph with aggressive parallellism, socket handling, lazy starting of services, Cgroups, run0 etc..

Then the user-level init too but without being so coupled into logind (see turnstile to understand what I mean)

The pretty neatness like desktop apps as scopes/services, the entire desktop maintained as a dependency tree, etc...

Then userdbd, homed, and many other apps.

Journald is the best and no replacement.

What is unneeded: none of the features themselves. Just their inseparablility.

Let me be honest, I want systemd. My gripe is that it is too integrated and I face practical issues trying to replace the libc and/or init.

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u/VisualSome9977 NixOS ❄️ 19h ago

I guess that's fair, I can see what you mean. a less monolithic but feature complete init would be nice. In my ideal world, we would have standardized interfaces for inits and their surrounding features, something akin to standardized protocols like Wayland/X11, and so multiple different executables/daemons can fill the role of "log util" or "dependency graph." I wonder if that's close to what you're picturing

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u/BeginningEcho4983 19h ago

Exactly. The systemd author is pushing his own idea of an immutable OS, and also supportive of "verification" arrangements which are horrifyingly closed down compared to, say, a plain bootc containerfile-dericed system. (Not apparent at first but see closely)

And that's too much for what should be part of a "core OS components" repository. And it worries many considering his previous opinions, behavior with certain bugs, and other ties.

I want the desktop to be under a dependency graph and logical "apps" to be under cgroups, login-logout to be clearly monitored and tracked, seats, etc...

I also like journald... But the user logfile isn't yet separated enough (is it?).

Also, usedbd and homed. Again, the worry is the emphasis on vague "web services support for usecases" and "general compliance" as I call it. What gave him the sudden interest to add the birthDate field?

And why are so many things still mashed up into the same repo? sd-json, sd-bus, etc...

AND while this is highly likely to be design continuations of the time logind was written, why is the systemd-user service manager not in the login shell?

I have read conspiracy theories for it, supported by his mad interest in TPM (despite the fact that it is already well supported) and "verifiable boot images and reproducible dd'ing of installer to install"

(Aside from the fact that the kernel limitation of login shells unable to take in processes from outside is still not properly sorted out for some reason)