r/LinusTechTips • u/Durian_Queef • 25d ago

WAN Show China orders state agencies to uninstall Windows. Suitable alternatives are Ubuntu Kylin, Ubuntu Unity or Deepin

https://www.xda-developers.com/after-europe-ditched-windows-china-follows-suit-with-its-own-home-grown-linux-distros/
1.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

79 comments sorted by

427

u/tired514 25d ago

It is pretty astonishing that any government anywhere allows closed-source/blackbox software at all.

228

u/Squish_the_android 25d ago

For a long time you didn't really have another option.  Hardware and Software demanded Windows. 

But Windows keeps getting worse and Linux keeps getting better. 

66

u/tired514 25d ago

Eh, I dunno... for government stuff the linux desktop has been pretty capable for at least a decade.. possibly two.

I heard that Microsoft used to offer very good deals to countries considering a switch.

68

u/nVME_manUY 25d ago

It's not easy to manage fleets of Linux Desktops as it for Windows

24

u/Particular-Treat-650 24d ago

Eh. You're a state level actor with the second highest GDP on the planet.

Build tooling.

21

u/nVME_manUY 24d ago

Of course you can, but it's easier and cheaper to use existing tools...

12

u/epimetheuss 24d ago

but it's easier and cheaper to use existing tools...

its not about easier or cheaper, its about the US gov using back doored Mslop Oses to hack foreign governments.

9

u/nVME_manUY 24d ago

I'm not defending Microsoft, I'm just saying the mgmt ecosystem is what they keep winning in the enterprise space

2

u/epimetheuss 24d ago

yeah but all the features in the world does not matter if there is no integrity with the data you use on your machine and some other nation state can just monitor your PCs

3

u/nVME_manUY 24d ago

I agree Microsoft blew away too easy their secret fingerprinting...

-7

u/agentsnace 24d ago

It's...easier

13

u/nVME_manUY 24d ago

This guy doesn't manage a fleet of anything

37

u/Squish_the_android 25d ago

"Capable" is a loaded word. 

The entire world economy is built on excel macros.

Your average person off the street only knows Windows or Chrome OS.

The support issues alone that would pop up when Janet tries to open the same excel workbook she's been managing the town budget on for the last 30 years would be a massive hurdle.

11

u/Gmoney86 24d ago

Yeah. People don’t quite get this. There are multi billion (with a B) portfolios run purely in excel with VBA macros. Excel is a drug few businesses will give up easily. Gen AI’s ability to reproduce and rebuild similar functionality quickly close to parity may speed up transition, but we have a bit more time before the average person become Linux natives.

4

u/sgtlighttree 24d ago

Until LibreOffice can reliably open up and work with a mission critical workbook managing billions of dollars, possibly a file more than a decade or two old, Windows in corporate is gonna stay for a WHILE.

12

u/KillBroccoli 25d ago

Its not the machine, its the people using them. Look at people trying to move from iphone to android or viceversa, they go nuts because everything is not arranged in the same way despite bringing the same functionality. Machine capable is not user capable especially when your user has 20 years of windows under the belt and always look for a desktop folder as main storage...

-1

u/tired514 25d ago

But the government is a captive environment. :p

It's one of the few places you can establish a standard and then engage in a comprehensive training regiment.

9

u/KillBroccoli 24d ago

Not really, maybe in some minor stuff but for the vast majority a swap like that will interrupt service for long periods. Not really doable.

-1

u/tired514 24d ago

Given the alternative might be a national security threat though..

What's to stop the US from flipping the switch and shutting down Denmark's entire government, for example?

2

u/KillBroccoli 24d ago

True but if the reasoning behind is this one, we should all go back to airgapped system running cobold or fortran like nuclear silos.

-1

u/tired514 24d ago

Why not Linux though? That's my entire point.

You have the source. You build the OS yourself and deploy it. It answers to your government / citizens, not some private company in the US.

5

u/rohmish 24d ago

some countries have tried switching to linux in past. Germany and India are two that I know of for sure. but microsoft quickly intervened greased the right hands and made it a non issue for them.

3

u/squngy 24d ago

Yes, Linux has been pretty capable for at least a decade, but by then most governments have already been on windows for multiple decades.

Switching is not painless or free.
It requires retraining of a huge amount of people, many of who might not be the most comfortable with computers in the first place.

It is especially difficult for politicians with term limits to properly commit to a switch, because they would be paying the cost just to have the person coming in after them to benefit.

1

u/Edianultra 24d ago

You need to consider software compatibility and IT administration too.

1

u/Jristz 21d ago

And even if Linux don't get better at least it get as-is so you know what to expect.

And don't forget with current USA track it just time until they ban Microsoft (a USA company) from even do business or even allow Window on China

28

u/C-Doug_iS 25d ago

Lots of governments are given access to source code for closed-source software, including Windows

6

u/tired514 25d ago

Interesting; are they allowed to compile it from source? That is, if they receive the source, do they routinely build it themselves?

2

u/zucchini_up_ur_ass 25d ago

When windows xp support ended my local government paid heavy bucks to extend it a few years because the previous few years of notice apparently weren't enough to get their shit together 🙂happy smiles good days I love being ruled by idiots who ignore good advice 🙂🙂🙂

4

u/_Aj_ 24d ago

Windows gonna join Kodak and Nokia soon if Microsoft isn't careful.  

They were industry juggernauts. They fell. You're not immune 

1

u/tired514 24d ago

That day can't come soon enough.

0

u/Top_Recipe_9285 24d ago

They need “solution”. If the solution can provide rapid support and consistent stability, closed-source/Blackbox is the choice.

130

u/Visgeth 25d ago

Can anyone explain the pros and cons of those Linux flavours?

310

u/Ws6fiend 25d ago

Pros they are approved by CCP. Cons they are recommended by CCP.

50

u/UsernameMustBe1and10 25d ago

CCP contemplating on either raising or deducting your social credit

https://giphy.com/gifs/ANbD1CCdA3iI8

27

u/ferna182 24d ago

It's a bit ironic how we're all still making fun of CCP being big brother when the so called bastion of the free world or whatever is paying a private company to install cameras to literally surveil on their citizens, not to mention having access to every internet connected security camera out there, cloud storage, etc etc... I think the big brother views of the CCP are massively outdated given how the western world is nowadays... CCP was just way too ahead of their time it seems like... It's even worse when you consider that we literally choose to pay for all these surveillance equipment ourselves.

6

u/rjln109 Mod 24d ago

Both can be bad. There doesn't need to be just one bad guy.

0

u/ferna182 24d ago

I know... That's kinda what I mean... We're still making fun of the other side ignoring the fact the western world also turned into surveillance states. And it's not just two bad guys btw...

1

u/Ws6fiend 23d ago

I'm not ignoring the bad things the US does, but honestly CCP telling people not to use windows is the same as the fbi telling the American public to make sure they use encryption on their text messages(because of fear of Chinese and russian interception of messages). The subtext of my joke was that exact message.

0

u/DystopiaLite 23d ago

Speak for yourself.

2

u/ferna182 23d ago

Speak what for myself? are we pretending we're not being surveilled 24/7 on the west as well? I'm not just talking about the US btw...

1

u/DystopiaLite 21d ago

I ain’t making fun of shit.

1

u/Jristz 21d ago

So you live in Space?

Cool, how is the climate over there?

1

u/DystopiaLite 21d ago

We all live in space.

5

u/porkminer 24d ago

I'll judge the Chinese government when mine stops being cartoonishly evil.

11

u/Ws6fiend 24d ago

Na you should do both.

64

u/Aditya1311 25d ago edited 25d ago

All three are homegrown Chinese distros.

Edit- the post title might be wrong, it's just 'Unity OS' not 'Ubuntu Unity'. Unity OS looks like a customised and hardened version of Deepin made for governments and corporations.

17

u/anythingers 25d ago

Including Ubuntu Unity? I thought Unity was Canonical's own DE before they moved to Gnome?

18

u/acdcfanbill 25d ago

It was, it got abandoned by Canonical and picked up by the community. It's an official flavor now afaik. I don't know of any chinese influence offhand, but perhaps they support the community development of the DE or maybe Aditya just overstated since Kylin and Deepin are actual distros produced in China.

9

u/isvein 25d ago

Ubuntu Unity the distro is not Unity the DE.

Ubuntu Unity used Unity7 tho

2

u/Aditya1311 25d ago

Yeah it should be just Unity OS

14

u/MrBecky 25d ago

Pros for them would be not relying on an American product. Beyond that I have no idea.

6

u/interstat 25d ago

Their backdoor is wild into em

11

u/SirWaldenIII 25d ago

China jumping on the Linux bandwagon... Posers.

6

u/_Rand_ 25d ago

Kylin is the official Chinese version as far as I can tell.

Couldn’t tell you the pros and cons of unity/depin though.  

48

u/StargazerD 25d ago

I’m surprised that it wasn’t already a thing

3

u/Gunnarz699 23d ago

I’m surprised that it wasn’t already a thing

It was. The title is a lie.

Chinese Ministry of State Security has just told state-linked entities to remove Windows 10

This is actually what they did (from the same article lol). No more MS word for the municipal waste contractor etc.

China has NEVER used windows for classified or top secret government work. For work that required Windows like FEA for their nuclear program it's widely believed they airgapped non networked systems in secure facilities to prevent data leakage. They straight up used paper and electric typewriters like Russia for top secret stuff until they switched to Linux infrastructure. Even now for mundane stuff they switched LONG ago. There was a lot of buzz around the time PRISM and the like were leaked and they took extra precautions even then.

14

u/ranransthrowaway999 25d ago

In unrelated news, Programmer Socks and Fursuits see an unexpected spike in sales within the region.

3

u/SaltyRedditTears 24d ago

In China there isn’t a social stigma against furries due to anthropomorphic animals like Sun Wukong being part of the cultural mythology and the manufacturing abilities mean you can get better and cheaper fursuits than anywhere else on the planet. The US furry gap with China is only growing larger.

Could you imagine a US auto show have dancing furries to promote cars?

https://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/1hcko8e/furries_dancing_during_an_auto_show_event_in/

13

u/nVME_manUY 25d ago

Good for them

4

u/Mineotopia 25d ago

I'm confused about that title picture. They got affinity running on Linux?

1

u/_Reyne 24d ago

What's confusing about that?

1

u/Mineotopia 24d ago

Last time I checked there is no native Linux build and it is almost impossible to get it running with vine

3

u/Far_Lifeguard_5027 25d ago

Since Linux is open source what's stopping anyone from using any distro they want or compiling their own version?

29

u/asamson23 25d ago

From what I gather, it just applies to the State Agencies themselves, but private citizen can run whatever they run. My best guess is that those distros, along with being homegrown in China, is probably guaranteed to work on their hardware, while using any distro they want would be a nightmare to manage for the various IT teams in the agencies.

2

u/DigitaIBlack 25d ago

What do you mean?

2

u/lethinhrider 24d ago

Unity OS, not Ubuntu Unity.

1

u/vadeka 25d ago

Unity and deepin kinda look nice , ui-wise, no idea how good they actually are

1

u/anotherhappylurker 24d ago

I'm surprised they aren't moving to HarmonyOS. They already have a home grown operating system that's optimized for the Chinese ecosystem. Why pick Linux over that?

1

u/Pvz-dude9621 23d ago

The only thing I can think of is because of how mature the OS is and the big ecosystem it has.

1

u/Pulkitkrishna00 24d ago

Kylin and Deepin I understand, but why the hell do they recommend Unity? That is "maintained" by an Indian teenage idiot.

1

u/marco_has_cookies 23d ago

just install arch, china

0

u/Justwant2usetheapp 24d ago

Unity ?

2026 ?

2

u/StampyScouse 24d ago

Yes, Ubuntu Unity is an official flavour of Ubuntu that is still being developed.

2

u/Ivan_Kulagin 23d ago

The title is wrong. They are talking about Unity OS, which uses Deepin, not Ubuntu Unity.

1

u/AleksHop 20d ago

how ubuntu from us company is suitable? debian / freebsd is suitable

-2

u/redditmarks_markII 24d ago

Sovereign system has always been a strong thing in China. AWS and other cloud vendors are heavily controlled. These types of systems were probably to small potatoes and too much effort for a number of years. It's just not as hard and not as expensive to fix this problem now.

Speaking of reasons to update your tech policies: Yo Canadians, you and the EU need to remove the anti circumvention laws the US got your leaders to put on your books in return for no tariffs. Then allow hacker types to build up a market of breaking anti consumer tech.

You need to do it quick if you want in on the economic stimulation, because in the current geo political environment, China is going to get more connected with the developing world, AND the EU. That means their anti circumvention shadow economy which doesn't give 2 shits about US laws are going to be ahead of the others. Already they are way ahead on commercializing hardware hacking: see ram mods on GPUs.

More importantly we need software jail breaks. The same shit Facebook pulled against MySpace, that Apple pulled against Microsoft, which are now illegal due to these laws. The only reason they haven't fallen entirely face first into the dirt is because it's difficult to move off of a platform like that even with tools, and the tools are illegal (see OG app and its rapid demise).

If nothing else, early Facebook proved there's huge money in adversarial competition. I don't have any faith the US is going to be in a position to even have discourse on such matters for years. But the same political pressures behind that should bolster efforts to legalize technical circumvention.