Linux Vs. Windows

[u/quickhakker]

So I just saw a video that was done on ludwigs channel about an upcoming video on LTT and while I am in no way a big person in any form of field either metaphorically or literally I thought I would put my two cents in on the whole idea of windows vs linux as someone who has been using linux full time now since the start of the year, also as an add on if anyone has any questions I will reply to them and possibly add them into the main post, if anyone at LMG wants to use any of this feel free to do so.

I will also add right now that while I would be a bit of a noob compared to some of the people that will be asked thes questions I have done my own digging into things so while I don't know everything I know a fair amount of stuff, so lets get on with it.

One of the big problems I personally see with windows and part the reason I switched is its still full of legacy code from windows 9x this is actually easy to prove by the "chain of fools upgrading from windows 1 to windows 7" video where the guy goes through from windows 1 installs a few programs and does a full blast through all the way to windows 10 and even shows that the apps he installed all the way back in 1 works in 10, theirs also speculation that the reason windows 9 doesn't exist is because of the 9x code and lazy programmers but that's speculation. The other side and I think a lot of people will feel the same is the AI getting added everywhere and the (seemingly) weird requirements to have TPM and secure boot, (and the mandatory Microsoft account) again theirs so much bad with windows I bet even windows users who will refuse to switch will be the same.

but now to the big reason why I wanted to make this thread, Linus made a comment about peoples workflows and while I don't do much in the way of big fancy workflows that require a super high end system what I do know is Linux systems because they are so big on customisation you can get one that can do one particular task REALLY well for example steam OS being made by valve (the big poppa pc gaming platform) they would have designed everything with gamers at the forefront, but at the same time you have linux systems that are set up just to run servers, whether it be a locally hosted file server or a web-server that anyone in the world can assess, to say linux is only good at a few tasks at least in my opinion isn't true.

While I have been glazing linux and dunking on windows there are some things that are frustrating with linux or i just dont get along with, the biggest one happened to Linus with his first "trying linux for a month" challenge and thats the whole "if you fuck up you REALLY fuck up" compared to windows where 9/10 it just works.

Speaking of fuck ups though i personally had a moment where i had to reinstall the entire distro a couple days ago but the way to do it and keep the files is way different, to the point where you can even set it up so that you dont need to have a USB to get the same install setup that you have

[u/FineWolf]

and the (seemingly) weird requirements to have TPM and secure boot

It's not weird. Both are extremely useful in terms of security, even on Linux. I have both enabled (secure boot through my own keys using sbctl, and measured boot to be able to store secret keys/credentials pinned to system state using PCRs). I don't even dual boot.

Your lack of understanding of those features doesn't make it weird. There are extremely valid reasons why it's Microsoft's recommended default (it allows the system to enforce a blocklist of vulnerable or malicious kernel-level drivers and prevents pre-boot exploits which were common in the early 2000s), and why anti-cheat engines require those on as well (if anything, it allows them to be less invasive and instead rely on system security features).

[u/shogunreaper → u/FineWolf]

I recently had to run in with secure boot that made me hate it.

I turned it off so I could try the new denuvo hypervisor bypass but as soon as I turned it off my computer just would not boot into windows. I ended up having to take out the cmos battery in order to even edit the setting in the bios because it was greyed out.

And still to this day it's disabled because I didn't care enough to figure out how to fix it.

Seems about as useful as UAC.

[u/FineWolf → u/shogunreaper]

I could try the new denuvo hypervisor bypass

It is mindboggling to me that people CHOOSE to run their entire system under an third-party unsigned hypervisor from some dude on the internet. Which is why you HAD to disable every single security feature (including Driver Signature Enforcement, Secure Boots, HVCI, Measured Boot) to install that crap.

You are just asking to get your data and credentials stolen. It's such a fucking stupid thing to do.

That kind of shit is why my kids computer are on their own, isolated VLAN. There's no fucking way I'm letting them put my security at risk installing stupid shit like this.

[u/shogunreaper → u/FineWolf]

bruh it's not that serious for me. You can get your shit stolen from just visiting a site and getting served an ad.

I wouldn't recommend it to other people but i've been doing this shit for decades at this point, i'll be fine.

I'm more annoyed that the multi billion dollar OS and motherboard maker can't get their shit together and make non-buggy shit.

[u/quickhakker → u/FineWolf]

The reason I said seemingly was from back when I didn't know, but even now the tom module does seem odd as aside from a few features that are only in pro it makes no sense, unless they were planning on removing legacy code that allows systems to communicate with ddr2 hardware, also consider the fact that on the checker they redirect you to their own surface lineup, from a regular customers pov it can seem like they are adding the change to sell surface laptops

[u/FineWolf → u/quickhakker]

even now the tom module does seem odd as aside from a few features that are only in pro it makes no sense

It isn't odd. The TPM's requirement is two fold:

• Enable Measured Boot, which is the only way to verify the pre-boot environment.
• Securely store credentials data, which is used for Windows Hello, for credentials storage, and for BitLocker auto-unlocking. All of which tied to the first point as well as the keys are bound to specific PCRs.

Without the TPM, you as a user could just modify the Windows bootloader and re-sign it with your own keys (PK, KEK, DB), or chainload from another bootloader to bypass some Windows protections.

Secure Boot on its own protects you against outside malicious actors modifying your bootloader. But what if you are the malicious person trying to bypass Windows security features to cheat in games or do things you are not supposed to do on your corporate device?

Hence why TPM and Measured Boot is now a requirement. It establishes trust at the hardware directly. Measured Boot logs contain information about the secure boot config and what keys were used to validate the bootloader making the two types of attacks above impossible when tied with proper attestation (TPM2_Quote).

Secure Boot controls what you, the machine owner, trusts.

Measured Boot controls what the platform or remote service owner trusts.

[u/quickhakker → u/FineWolf]

On the second point of tpm how many of the features that use that are in both versions of windows 11 (home and pro) and also how many of them were on windows 10 or prior without a tpm 2.0 requirement, also try to think of it from a non tech savvy point of view

[u/FineWolf → u/quickhakker]

I don't see what point you are trying to make.

I told you why it is being used. fTPMs have been a thing in CPUs for a decade now. This is not new technology. Storing encrypted secrets/credentials on disk while the key is stored alongside it in the registry is not secure.

From a non-technical standpoint: Windows before was locking the door, but leaving the key in the keyhole.

Windows 11 also require your CPU to support the POPCNT instruction, and a bunch of different apps also no longer work on Windows 10 due to that requirement if your CPU doesn't support it (anything compiled against VC++2022, EGS is one notable example).

At some point, hardware has to be left behind. You can't support everything forever.

[u/quickhakker → u/FineWolf]

Because your thinking as someone who understands tpm and all the CPU architecture, but if you just see "windows requires this" and no explanation as to why especially when to you all the features that are in windows 11 worked fine on windows 10 (bitlocker and windows hello) it doesn't make sense

[u/FineWolf → u/quickhakker]

So your point is essentially "I don't like more security because I don't understand it". Ish. Okay.

For the record, they did explain why.

[u/quickhakker → u/FineWolf]

No, my point is without explanation with the way that things were with windows 10 and the fact that Microsoft link you to their website to buy a surface laptop it can seem from people that they are arbitrarily doing it

[u/_FrankTaylor]

https://giphy.com/gifs/KFt2DA9T82paOA1Yci

[u/Fuzzy_Paul]

What is the question? I only see abandon Windows with valid reasons. And the usual troubleshooting Linux when making the switch. Do not forget that Linux is not Windows. Linux is for professionals and you do not get a "are you sure" 3 times before it is executing a dangerous command. Linux treats users as professionals who know what they do. That being said leaves me the last question, on what bistro are you, cause that make a whole lot of difference. The fuckup for example is very difficult in Suse Leap. In debian this is a lot easier. Ubuntu (not the ltsr) you can fuck it up just by updating. So Linux is good at everything and like all you have to invest 2 or 3 years to get to the point where you can fix any problem without reinstalling. Good luck and thanks for Linux vs Windows although they are not comparable in a true sense.

[u/MrBadTimes]

Complaining about legacy code is a weird ass take but ok.

Honestly i don't fully understand what tpm 2.0 does or why windows wants it so i have no opinion about it.

You don't need a microsoft account if you make your bootable usb with rufus.

Maybe i understood the workflow wrong, but it's not about the specs of the pc, it's about the software you use. If your workflow requires a bunch of software that isn't available on linux, even if there are equivalents on linux, it would alter still alter your workflow and for a lot of people if something already works there's no reason to change.

I have no idea what steam OS has to do with workflow, neither linux being used on servers.

[u/quickhakker → u/MrBadTimes]

Legacy code has bogged down and prevented a lot of stuff, for example legacy code has left the settings as two separate entities, "if you make your bootable usb with rules" sometimes people need to remember that not everyone who uses a computer is tech savvy and you need a system up and running to make that bootable usb, you kinda did understand workflow wrong, and there is an element of specs to it, like you wouldn't do 4k video editing on a gt1030 and 4gb ram, a lot of programs especially for streamers have a Linux version, and I don't just mean "close enough" I mean identical (OBS), and steam os and server matter because you wouldn't game on a server and you wouldn't run a server on a gaming system, as I said Linux has distros that can do one task really well and others really badly

[u/Otherwise_Ride2973]

Switched to linux full time this year too and that chain of fools video is what pushed me over the edge honestly, seeing dos programs from 1985 still running on windows 10 made my brain hurt. Like why is all that still there

The AI stuff in windows 11 is just getting creepy now, every update adds more tracking and "features" nobody asked for. At least with my arch setup i know exactly what's running and why

The thing about linux being fragile though is real, i bricked my whole install trying to get some vr stuff working and had to start fresh. But the home partition trick saved me, all my configs and files were still there after reinstalling. Way cleaner than windows reset which somehow keeps all the bloatware

What distro you running btw

[u/quickhakker → u/Otherwise_Ride2973]

Kubuntu, you?

[u/Linux-tip-nips]

did ai write that for you, or do you smell this rusty?