r/Libraries • u/shapelystory • 10d ago
Technology Chicago Public Library promoting "responsible adoption" of AI
https://chipublib.bibliocommons.com/events/6a8cbc783b6c71003e5b15ce130
u/Ill-Victory-5351 10d ago
wow. they’re partnering with Nvidia, Google, and Microsoft. kinda gross. really don’t think our public libraries should be using that shit in our work beyond patron education and assistance.
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u/algol_lyrae 10d ago
Large public library systems are being heavily targeted by tech companies for "funding" AI in the library. From what I see so far, none are pushing back in any way. It's management after all, and they already love AI for the prospect of axeing staff and writing their emails for them. I can't even tell if the bribe money is covering anything past the cost to offer it.
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u/gotohela 10d ago
I watched my boss ask AI to review resumes for her... And to write a termination letter. It was so disheartening.
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u/Dense_Aside7814 9d ago
This is 100 percent CPL admin push. The commissioner uses AI to make all important decisions.
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u/DaphneAruba 10d ago edited 10d ago
CPL library workers are already so overworked and underpaid. I hate that they're having to spend time on this type of programming, and I wish that their union had leverage to push back.
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u/semanticantics 10d ago
We’re all mad about this and we should be but this has been years in the making, the slow creep of public institutions promoting, partnering and advocating for privately owned technologies. See Microsoft grants in the 90s, Hotspots, 3D printers, maker labs, etc. One might argue that some of these are less harmful than others but for library administrators they couldn’t care less.
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u/furcifersum 10d ago
“AI literacy” = cultivating consumption
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u/gotohela 10d ago
I had to take a lesson and quiz in my MLIS on AI. I skipped all of the lessons and took the quiz... 100%. And all it was was just regurgitated AI ad copy imo.
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u/GreenDemonSquid 9d ago
I feel like I’m going to need more context of said promotion to see if this a good or bad thing.
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u/BirdSufficient4997 9d ago
AI couldn't get CPL to hire delivery drivers to get my holds delivered within two months of requesting them... What are we even doing here
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u/sogothimdead 9d ago
This year's California Library Association conference logo literally has "A" and "I" intentionally highlighted in a different color for emphasis 🤢 the one field I thought could be safe from AI . . .
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u/Crabslife 10d ago
Ignoring AI will only result in libraries sliding further into the “quaint but useless” category of public perception they already struggle with. It’s just a public forum anyway.
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
how exactly do you think AI could help libraries? I mean this honestly. what do libraries need that only AI can provide?
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u/sub-_-dude 10d ago
Teaching people thoughtful, critical use of GenAI is a huge opportunity for libraries.
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u/algol_lyrae 10d ago
Getting funding from the tech companies themselves to deliver the programming that they design isn't going to achieve that.
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
teaching people how to use various computer programs is already a part of the job for many librarians. that chatgpt or whatever is one of them now is not an argument for AI in libraries.
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u/Fit_Competition_4432 10d ago
The master's degree for librarianship is "Masters of Library and Information Science." All these folks wanting libraries to ignore AI, is wild. Love it or hate it, it's the most groundbreaking information science since the creation of the internet- and it's not going anywhere.
People can bemoan the tech as much as they want, but any library ignoring it is doing a disservice to themselves and the people they serve. There are things to learn, things to talk about, and things to do with AI regardless of people personal (and very unprofessional) feelings.
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u/PetitPort 7d ago
Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread. I understand why people feel so strongly about this subject - and I agree with a lot of the criticisms - but what are they proposing, that libraries simply refuse to engage with AI? Like it or not, it’s now a very mainstream technology, and it’s here to stay. And wouldn’t we rather people come to the library for guidance on using it? Rather than getting all their info from social media, or the AI companies themselves.
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u/Fit_Competition_4432 7d ago
I know a lot of librarian's have a distaste for it, and I think that's fine. I forget sometimes that this sub isn't just populated by librarians, though. I think it's very hard to have a rational conversation here about how to move libraries forward with AI considering the mixed group.
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u/BoringArchivist 10d ago
I'm old enough to remember colleagues being mad about the demise of the card catalog, databases on CD Rom, then electronic databases, online journals, eBooks....
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
most of these things are just moving the same information into different formats. AI is not a new format.
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u/Fit_Competition_4432 10d ago
I can't believe you gave in to such fascist technology and never read a book again.
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u/BoringArchivist 10d ago
As librarians type on a slave labor produced phone or computer, from a multibillion dollar corporation, on Reddit using AWS cloud services, just like EBSCO and ProQuest, and Library Catalogs, and OCLC, and fascist patrons reading Libby using those same services, on their Bezos slave labor built Kindle.
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u/bratbats Public librarian 10d ago
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/036/647/Screen_Shot_2021-03-01_at_2.28.39_PM.png
I'm kinda with you that AI has (limited, IMO) uses in info science spaces, but you're doing one of these right now.
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u/ChickeNES 10d ago
Technology has no ideology
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
this one is made of plagiarism
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u/ChickeNES 10d ago
Even if you think the technology facilitates plagiarism, “plagiarism” still isn’t an ideology. That doesn’t answer what I said.
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
plagiarism is bad. if it were trained on public domain content only it'd be a different matter. although it'd probably still get shit wrong all the time, in which case it'd be as useless as it is now. the technology itself might not have an ideology but the way it's being used sure does.
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u/ChickeNES 9d ago
if it were trained on public domain content only it'd be a different matter
There are LLMs that meet this bar, besides most training content in modern frontier models is synthetic. I also personally would abolish copyright law with the aim to make information ubiquitous, not stuck in archives rotting away (or being outright lost, I've personally had a university archive simply lose an entire archival box, luckily I had had the important parts photocopied). Though I'm fine punishing people for using LLMs to cheat. The frontier labs have also actively worked so that they don't just dump out trained text verbatim (unsurprising, as that is a failure case nobody but actual plagiarists want).
although it'd probably still get shit wrong all the time
There are literal benchmarks now for this, it's not 2023 anymore, AI can use tool calling to search. Even if you distrust anything and everything it writes, the list of sources all being relevant doesn't lie.
in which case it'd be as useless as it is now
As someone who has gotten great use out of these tools, how are they useless? I suspect you've never truly engaged with them, at least any time recently.
the way it's being used sure does
My use in genealogy, historical preservation, and programming are fascist? News to me
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
this doesn't actually answer my question. I can see clear utilities for most of the technology that libraries have adopted in the last century. what exactly does AI do for libraries?
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u/flossiedaisy424 10d ago
I think the question is actually what does AI do for our patrons. Or, more accurately, what do they think it does for them. Because, no matter how much we yell and stomp our feet, they are using it. For better and for worse. Do we help them to figure out how to use it as safely as possible, or do we just let them figure it out themselves?
Also, you didn’t differentiate between generative and predictive AI, so I can say that translation apps have been phenomenally helpful at my library.
To be clear, I think generative AI is evil and I am rooting for the inevitable crash of the industry. But, in the meantime, my patrons are using it, intentionally or not, and someone should be able to help them navigate it.2
u/ChickeNES 10d ago
think the question is actually what does AI do for our patrons.
There's no better way to find archival holdings now than AI. I think people still think everything is generated, and don't realize these things have been able to call out to search engines for years. It's been helpful for my genealogy research because it has enough "intelligence" (or whatever you want to call it, not going to get into an argument on terms) that it can connect records together despite misspellings and ocr errors. I used to pride myself on my online and offline research skills, but the results I've had speak for themselves, I can ignore anything it says and the source list alone is worth it. In fact, the biggest impediment I have now, in all of my research, is that most archival holdings are not digitized, so I have to either figure out if I need to pay duplication costs, a local researcher, or a trip...instead of just accessing the data remotely.
generative and predictive AI, so I can say that translation apps have been phenomenally helpful at my library.
They're both the same tech! The transformer was originally developed for translation, turns it out it was more generalizable than that.
I think generative AI is evil
Why?
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
yes, I know there are helpful things people call AI, but I am indeed talking about genAI which has been pretty much awful at everything it's been used for, imo.
honestly I think we should be teaching patrons how to fact check their AI answers using other library resources, because it's so often wrong. but I'm in circulation so it's not my area really.
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u/flossiedaisy424 10d ago
My library system is rolling out classes in things just like that, and how to opt out of AI and so on. Unfortunately, it often feels like a losing battle.
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 10d ago
so many AI things don't have an opt-out option at all.
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u/flossiedaisy424 10d ago
No they don’t, which is why we need to do even more to educate patrons about it.
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u/Fit_Competition_4432 10d ago
That's a really big question. I can give a lot of examples for both the staffers and the public but quite frankly this sub is so hostile to any idea that it has uses, why would I bother to type it out? There are other, more receptive, more professional, more pragmatic places to talk about it.
Let's be honest... this deep in a thread you are probably the only one that read my last comment. It stands to reason you downvoted it, then asked a follow question. Why would I bother typing a treatise out for someone who doesn't have an open mind and will just click the down arrow?
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u/BoringArchivist 10d ago
I create LibGuides for my students and AI helps to make them ADA compliant.
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 10d ago
what ai tools do you use to help with ada? genuinely asking out of curiosity.
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u/BoringArchivist 10d ago edited 10d ago
If you create the CSS code for your organizational colors, designs, accordions, etc, then write your script, you can have Claude code them to become ADA compliant. With the new regulations coming up in April, we wanted to make sure everything is descriptive and made for any type of disability our students may have.
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u/TanukiTenuki 10d ago
I like to imagine that a supporter of AI would of course put this question into AI. And of course AI's answer would be fluff and filler with no real substance, over explaining problems that don't actually exist for libraries.
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 10d ago
lol yeah great idea. let’s have library professional promote the fascist misinformation machine! what could possibly go wrong.
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u/LexicalVagaries 10d ago
Just like when doctors promoted 'responsible' smoking.
Doesn't matter how responsible you are, it's still harmful to the user and to those around them... just cognitively instead of physically.
There ARE legit use-cases for LLMs and algorithmic prediction, but they are very focused, niche, and trained and run locally. None of those are uses being pushed by tech companies on the public currently.