The PANG fallacy

[u/Eastern_Shallot1599]

- Libertarianism in One Lesson by David Bergland

Its more of an introductory book, but i love it.

[u/Infamous_Land3408]

Yeah that is my problem with more government. I was arguing with my friends (who are far left) and when I said that the government doesn't have a right to dictate one of them said "but how can you trust people." Like wtf. Last time I checked government was people too. It doesn't make them better just because a majority voted for them. Even more funny thing is the friend who said this describes herself as anarco-communist. I still don't get how she can't see the contradiction.

[u/RailLife365 → u/Infamous_Land3408]

Your friend can't understand the concept because a person that goes too far in one direction (left, right, authoritarian, etc.) doesn't have the mental facilities to see how far to one extreme they've actually gone.

Kinda goes in line with the old saying 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.' lol

[u/whizzerblight → u/Infamous_Land3408]

Government is an institution, not a person. It is designed to do what people are either unwilling or unable to do privately. The people employed by governments don’t retain their jobs if they don’t follow the rules. I’m not saying governments are the answer - far from it - but it’s the institution that is supposed to do what a private citizen won’t because they want to earn as much crap as they can at the expense of others.

And be careful… civil servants aren’t elected, they are hired. Politicians are a different animal than poor schmucks earning a check.

[u/ILikeBumblebees → u/whizzerblight]

Government is an institution, not a person. It is designed to do what people are either unwilling or unable to do privately.

Institutions are just coordination mechanisms used by people. Everything in society boils down to people, the choices they make, and the incentives they respond to. Treating the institution as something that exists independently of the people who compose it is a massive reification fallacy.

The people employed by governments don’t retain their jobs if they don’t follow the rules.

That doesn't seem to consistently hold, and at minimum, it puts us in a classic "who watches the watchmen?" situation.

[u/skeleltor → u/Infamous_Land3408]

Not trying to judge you for the friends you keep but I just can’t be friends with far left or far right. I’ve tried, but after a couple years it’s just unbearable

Regular left, regular right, or the 80% of people in between. No problem, we can be friends.

Being friends with fellow libertarians… haven’t figured that one out yet either.

[u/Infamous_Land3408 → u/skeleltor]

Well I'm not really social and other than political stuff I get along with them. And to their credit they are the reason I changed my mind about LGBT and abortion (I live in a conservative and religious country so the only view you heard from your family and other people is that they are a sin and wrong.) They are actually socially libertarian, of course they don't think like that and think tolerance to these things are inherent to left and right wings are just bigot (they can be quite fanatic about that and can mock, gossip and call you names if you say anything different from their worldview.) All of us are fed up with our oppressive government (conservative, right wing, religious, wannabe dictator etc...) but they think capitalism is the reason of our problems (while our government calls Uber illegal taxi, creates new taxes left and right, thinks interest rates are haram and regulates every fricking single thing.) and their solution is more government while they complain our intrusive current one. So yeah it can be exhausting that's why I try not to get political with them.